if every religion says: " hey you, join my religion!" or: "go to hell if you join that other guy's religion." doesn't that logically mean we're all going to hell. I mean man created god to explain the things that could not be explained through scientific experimentation. the means of discovering the links in evolution weren't even invented until darwins time. so in theory, religion was created through ignorance triggered by misinformation.

Darwins probally of evalution I just saw that for anything to progress into something else is at least 10 to the 321st power. Thats alot of zero's for proballity. Even thinking that his therory and that is what it was and is a therory. Is so unrealistic that the scientific community is even rejecting it anymore. Shalom...Miles

your english apalls me. you would have been better off copy/ pasting a response from wikipedia. I can barely understand your grammar.

your english apalls me. you would have been better off copy/ pasting a response from wikipedia. I can barely understand your grammar.

yea i have a mental block on spelling sometimes. The thought I would say is clear though.. As far as copying and pasting goes I try not to. Most on here get tired of 4 pages of coping and pasting. And I agree. Say what you are going to say in your own words. If you need a little copying and pasting to prove your point. Fine but knowing what you are saying is the important part I believe... Shalom

I said that not to insult your intelect but to try to get you to convey your point more clearly. I understood what you were saying but was confused by your grammar and spelling.

the concept of natural selection is proven every day in human culture. the concept of survival of the fittest is portrayed best through the game of cat and mouse. the cat catches the mouse simply because the mouse isn't smart enough to wait for the cat to sleep. on the contrary, the mouse outsmarts the cat by simply running away into le mouse hole. there are other examples. but this one is the simplest.

evolution fits withi darwins theory when you concider the epic battle of prey and predator. in simplest terms, the prey's eyes are positioned on the sides of the skull to better look for danger. in essence, the prey can look both ways at once. the predator, on the other hand, has eyes positioned on the front of their skull so both eyes can look in one direction for the next meal.

survival of the fittests and cell migration are 2 totally different things. Survival of the fittest always has been and always will be. Darwin had no idea about the complexity of cells or anyways to see them. Shalom..Miles

which attests to my original point that religion was created as a means of explaining things that science at the time couldn't.

I'm left somewhat perplexed and feeling rather *stupid* as to the point of your post.

I have learned over my years in my own selected faith(s) and, yes search for my own truths, that simply because one feels passionately about their choices does not warrant them being labled stupid, stubborn, or worse yet...ignorant.

Certainly, we can call those who are vehement about their beliefs "close-minded"...but, isn't this simply because WE don't agree with their heartfelt passions...regardless of the topic? Does this make US right and THEM wrong?

Who am I...or even you...to state that these people have not researched, sought answers, educated themselves beyond the teachings they were raised with...and still made their decisions accordingly?

I personally find respect for those who have passion about their various beliefs...even if they differ from mine. When I utter one breath of judgment towards them, I'm only serving to place myself alongside them in their aimlessly drifting life raft.

Live and let live.

science I do not know you could call or say they had any knowledge of it. Cause and affect but this is where Yahweh came in with his laws to guide them.

Take creation. The 7th day was a Sabbath of rest. They have found in almost every religion had a day of rest and most called it a sabbath. man needs to rest at least 1 day a week or he wears out. Science or i should say the Medical community has found that transplants of organs for the donors body to accept it comes on a cycle of rest. A body depleted of rest is much more likely to reject a transplant. and the donor needs to be rested also. Now these things in our fast pased world of where i know people that try to work 7 days a week to get ahead. Just does not work. Religion goes to deep in science that they are finding out all the time.

Take Dr. Royal Rife from the late 20's. He was the inventer of the Rife Microscope that is in the smithsonian and it was what the electron microscope later on came from.

Now the rife one's magnification could see blood cells interact.

In his research he found that a canser patient and the blood of a pig you could not tell the difference between when looking at the live cells.

He concluded that swine was the cause of canser.

The AMA even published his findings. His research though on this and other subjects became taboo when congress found out about it. Because he also found that high voltage freqencies when you varied them he ended up claiming thier was not a disease that could not be cured by just sitting in a chair and electrical wavelength ie (frequecies) at different waves for different diseases he could cure.

He proved he could cure canser in a study in the late 30's in San Diego. He had 16 terminally ill canser patients which thier drs. had given 3 months or less to live as his test subjects.

At the end of 3 months 14 had been medically cleared by thier own drs.the other 2 were in 6 months as canser free. This made congress go over the edge. The drug companies could not have this and we know big money controls congress not us. He had to flee the country or go on trial for using a machine that had not been cleared by the FDA. He was accussed of practicing medicine without a licence so to speak.

Imagine saving 16 lives made him an outlaw.and claiming he could cure any disease with this machine.

His partner was convicted and served 5 years in federal prison and the 16 lives he saved the judge ruled thier testimony was in admissable. So in effect they did not let his partner mount a defence because they wanted this sqauched.

he died and a dr in England went underground because the US got almost all of Europe to outlaw this machine also with no research done on it. It is said now to be being used in New Zealand now as they never outlawed it. I could go on and on do a search fro Dr. Royal Rife and you will not believe what you are reading and this stuff was done before most of us was born. In 1980 a group testified before congress that this research should be allowed and they voted it down then.

Do the search it is very interesting..

But the whole reason I brought him up is to show the Bible says do not eat swine. But it is called the other white meat. It speaks of bottom feeders also (fish) ect. which testify to a creator because how did they know this stuff what to eat and not. The Pagans all around them did.

Case studies was done for where was the lowest percentage of Heart Disease.

Paul said a little wine which then would of been red wine. Is good for the stomach. When the AMA did thier study it went against everything they preached.

France is where the lowest rate of heart disease is. Where the AMA thoughty would be the highests. But thier custom is to have a glass of wine with thier meals.

They also did a study of where the lowest rate of Ovarian canser was. It is Jewish women.

Back again to what they eat and all males are circumsized.

The bible out does science all the time. Science is just starting to catch up with the Bibles laws.

If our govt. will allow it which comes to prophecy. That at the end of the age your fight will be with wickedness in High Places. Which is coming very true and people are seeing it all the time something is wrong we are lied to all the time and no one is held accountable. we are blind sheep to them ready for the slaughter. Blessings of Shalom....Miles

I actually enjoy debating those who have researched their religion and with whom i can engage in healthy good-natured discusssion. Those people were not the target of my first post.
The target were those people whose best argument to my viewpoints are "think whatever you want because you are still going to hell and i am going to heaven", people who when i question their faith and certain logical inconsistencies in a genuinely inquisitive and respectful manner insist that i am "attacking" their religion AND people who when i debate the authenticity of the bible as the word of god rebut by quoting the bible... grrrrrr!!!!

i wrote that post in a fit of frustration.

No true Christian "worships" the Bible. It is meant to be a reference, a way to get to know God. We are to use it as a guide. Do you not read books, articles, etc. to look for the truth you seem to think you have found? I am not going to bother to debate the truths found in the Bible with you, because your heart is hardened to the truth. Don't put others down because you disagree. That makes you just as guilty as those you say are christians but treat people that way. Two wrongs don't make a right, and a few don't make the whole wrong or bad.

You have it totally backwards. Man did not create God, God created man. We don't have to explain anything, and if science had all the answers, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Did you know that even Darwin renounced his own teachings towards then end of his life, because he realized everything he taught could not be proved and he found the truth in everything that he could prove. He also found God.

Survival of the fittest doesn't prove evolution, because even thought the fittest survive, they don't change. If things were changing the way evolution says, then it would have continued to change, and the things that it was changing from would have ceased to exist, i.e. the monkey. It would not need to be here, because it would have evolved away, from lack of need, from what it would have evolved into, because it was better. But yet, we have monkeys all over the place.

Don't be silly.

Without the Bible there would be no such thing as Christianity.

The Bible isn't the word of God. It's a mythology that is actaully a horrible insult to the creator of this universe.

The Bible clearly states that its God is a loser.

It states that the pathway to heaven is straight and the gate is narrow and few will make it.

Well, if few make it into heaven, then clearly the vast majority of souls are won by Satan.

Also, Satan won bigtime at the Great Flood. Satan had almost everyone worshiping him save but a very few individuals.

What did God do?

God cheated the devil out of the win.

God told the few good people to build a boat and then he flushed the rest of humanity over to the devils side of the poker table.

Then he started a new deal.

Clearly Satan must have been laughing his butt off on that one. He clearly beat God and won all the souls just like he said he could, yet God refused to concede the defeat and forced a new game.

Later, in total desperation, God had to send his own son to be butchered on a pole. That's got to be scraping the bottom of the barrel right there.

The biblical God must have been truly desperate to have done that.

But look, it didn't even work. Satan is still alive and well and winning the vast majority of souls just like he always does.

By the Bible's own proclamation its God is a heavy looser of souls. The biblical God looses far more souls that it creates.

It's a terrible God. Extremely inefficient and can't even keep a stupid fallen angel at bay.

Clearly these biblical stories has nothing to do with the real creator of this universe. The creator of this universe couldn't possibly be as lame as the Bible make him out to be.

Why would anyone want to have faith that God is as lame as the Bible claims?

Why would you want to have FAITH that God had to have his son butchered on a pole to pay for your rebellion against God?

Have you ever rebelled against God?

If you haven't then why would you put your faith in a story that claims that you have?

I know that I haven't rebelled against my creator. Therefore I know the biblical lies can't be true.

I know better.

i've always thought that the bible was an insult to god's intelligence. you put it very eloquently and wittily.

Miles that is not true. In fact pretty much the discovered fossil record has indicated nothing that Darwin would have not have predicted. He's been on the money for centuries. The theory of evolution is one of the great intellectual revolutions of human history. Before its arrival we just perceived our existence as unconnected with the natural world. Charles Darwin put forth a coherent theory of evolution and amassed a great body of evidence in support of this theory.

You can believe whatever you like. You can decide that we were dropped off by storks but just because you dont like the idea that we are directly related to our primate ancestors does not make it fallacy. See, every one of these threads turns to the Theory of Evolution eventually. It truly amazes me at times.

"I have called this principle, by which each slight variation, if useful, is preserved, by the term Natural Selection."

Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species

Now look here:

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree. -- Genesis 1:11

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. -- Genesis 1:24

Notice that God lets "the earth bring forth" the plants and animals, rather than create them directly. So maybe the creationists have it all wrong. Maybe Genesis is not so anti-evolution after all.

if there is somebody teaching children about God through fear of hell. that person is not a christian. that person may be a fundie, but not a christian.
This individual must be living at least on a 100 years ago reality which does not fit christianity whasoever.
If somebody does not start teaching a child about God under the only premise that God loves him, this is person is wrong.
Real christianity with no distorsions teaches that God loves us each one of us on an unlimited manner. That is the only premise which is needed to teach religion either to a child or an adult.
Any other thing is not christianity or a distorted view of christianity.
as i have said before:
FUNDAMENTALISM leads to FANATISM and FANATISM leads to TERRORISM.

TLW

I would agree with that statement absolutely TLW. Though Christianity is just not going to work for me on a personal level (I messed around with Catholicism) my real concern is that ANY fundamentalist theology carries with it the potentiality for hatred and abuse. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, even Buddhism which we always imagine to be so passive. Humans possess an uncanny ability to manipulate and distort whatever they want in order that it serve them and their own personal agendas and its very dangerous and people need to be aware of that.