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| Topic: The Problem of Evil and Theodicy | |
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in response to "natural evil and moral evil. NATURAL things - aka - "nature" - is not evil, it is a system of forces there is no evil connected to it. man may project his thoughts of good or evil upon it, but it has no evil or good intent one way or the other! in fact it "IS" the neutral denominator in those who look for such! being a force or set of forces - it is not capable of thinking or acting in such a way to be good or evil. to think other wise is foolish at best and demented at worst. what would even give one the idea that they could blame or hold these forces to good or evil standards? As to moral evil, this is no more than mans concepts and not proven by such things as feeding the hungry. would i think myself evil if i knew of someone hungry and did not feed them? if that's the case then all of us are filled to the brim and overflowing with this so called moral evil spoken of here! why? well we all know and hear daily of millions of starving people and children around the world and here at home and do little or nothing about it. do you walk your streets at night and take in the homeless you find? do you search for those near by that may not have food to eat? Even if you do this occasionally your still guilty by not always doing it - whats your excuse? to busy? not enough time? barely getting by yourself? don't trust the person/people? morals are not equal in anyones mind, therefore they are doled out and used only as one See's fit and is moved by them to do so. it has always been this way and always will be. Spidercmb said... You are confusing moral evil and natural evil (disaster). We cannot always control disasters from nature, but we can moderate our own behavior so that we commit moral acts. In the Bible, the word "evil" sometimes means disaster or calamity. I used it in that way in two posts, but in the second I clarified what I was talking about. Is it evil to watch someone starve to death? Undeniably so. We have all fallen short of God's example. Jesus feed thousands of people to set an example for us. People are starving all over the world but we are suffering a plague of obesity in the world. The point? None of us do as much as we could to help our fellow man. "if that's the case then all of us are filled to the brim and overflowing with this so called moral evil spoken of here!"...SO? Because we're all guilty of doing it, it must not be morally evil to let people starve to death? How is "Everybody does it" a valid argument? your misinterpreting - go back and read what i say after that. |
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your misinterpreting - go back and read what i say after that. I don't see your point, so I'm going to bed. |
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nite spidey!!
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Edited by
splendidlife
on
Thu 10/30/08 07:25 AM
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Do you REALLY love your enemies? I'll tell you when I get some. That's cute, Spidey.  Let me ask you another question... I know he's dead and all... ...but, do you love Hitler? I mean, if he was alive, would you consider him an enemy? |
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Do you REALLY love your enemies? I'll tell you when I get some. That's cute, Spidey. Let me ask you another question... I know he's dead and all... ...but, do you love Hitler? I mean, if he was alive, would you consider him an enemy? While I have some disgust for that which was the person called hitler... I would bet you he is in a room in heaven... God has a place for all of his children... Even ones you don't like. He hates not nor does he judge one in the way he does another... We are all his children. |
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Edited by
splendidlife
on
Thu 10/30/08 08:24 AM
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Do you REALLY love your enemies? I'll tell you when I get some. That's cute, Spidey. Let me ask you another question... I know he's dead and all... ...but, do you love Hitler? I mean, if he was alive, would you consider him an enemy? While I have some disgust for that which was the person called hitler... I would bet you he is in a room in heaven... God has a place for all of his children... Even ones you don't like. He hates not nor does he judge one in the way he does another... We are all his children. I agree... Just wondering what our friend, Spider, has to say... |
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That's cute, Spidey. Let me ask you another question... I know he's dead and all... ...but, do you love Hitler? I mean, if he was alive, would you consider him an enemy? I have seen pictures of people who were tortured by Saddam Hussein's government. I have seen pictures of Iraqi Olympic athletes who had arms and legs amputated for not performing as expect at the Olympics. I have read the testimony of a man who had to watch as his relatives, including wife and children, were dropped into a plastic shredder. I mourned when Saddam was executed. My enemy doesn't have flesh or blood. I was a racist at one time, I hated black people. I've changed. If I can change, who's to say that Saddam or Hitler couldn't given the chance? |
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Edited by
splendidlife
on
Thu 10/30/08 08:36 AM
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That's cute, Spidey. Let me ask you another question... I know he's dead and all... ...but, do you love Hitler? I mean, if he was alive, would you consider him an enemy? I have seen pictures of people who were tortured by Saddam Hussein's government. I have seen pictures of Iraqi Olympic athletes who had arms and legs amputated for not performing as expect at the Olympics. I have read the testimony of a man who had to watch as his relatives, including wife and children, were dropped into a plastic shredder. I mourned when Saddam was executed. My enemy doesn't have flesh or blood. I was a racist at one time, I hated black people. I've changed. If I can change, who's to say that Saddam or Hitler couldn't given the chance?  
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At least Hitler was human. He may have been under the influence of demons or aliens, but he himself was human.
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by watching that video he seems to be saying that God is equally responsible for the creation of good and evil. I would say that would not qualify as a "good" God. At best I would say he is a neutral God.
Maybe even closer to Evil. If someone came up to me and hugged me and then immediately punched me in the face. I would think the Evil act out did the Good one. I would stay away from a person like that. I would know they were not to be trusted. Some kind of mental case. |
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 THE RABBIT IS BACK!!
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THE RABBIT IS BACK!! hello JB, I thought myself back into existence, lol |
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by watching that video he seems to be saying that God is equally responsible for the creation of good and evil. I would say that would not qualify as a "good" God. At best I would say he is a neutral God. Maybe even closer to Evil. If someone came up to me and hugged me and then immediately punched me in the face. I would think the Evil act out did the Good one. I would stay away from a person like that. I would know they were not to be trusted. Some kind of mental case. No, he says nothing of the kind. God ALLOWED for evil to exist, so that a greater good could exist, free will. For God to eliminate evil, God would have to remove the free will of his creations, thus defeating the purpose of creation. |
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by watching that video he seems to be saying that God is equally responsible for the creation of good and evil. I would say that would not qualify as a "good" God. At best I would say he is a neutral God. Maybe even closer to Evil. If someone came up to me and hugged me and then immediately punched me in the face. I would think the Evil act out did the Good one. I would stay away from a person like that. I would know they were not to be trusted. Some kind of mental case. No, he says nothing of the kind. God ALLOWED for evil to exist, so that a greater good could exist, free will. For God to eliminate evil, God would have to remove the free will of his creations, thus defeating the purpose of creation. This is what you always fall back on. That God is never responsible. So God is not the Creator of all things. to which you will say something like, Evil is not a thing. to which I will say How can we discuss something that does not exist. To which I will realize we are talking about God. LOL |
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by watching that video he seems to be saying that God is equally responsible for the creation of good and evil. I would say that would not qualify as a "good" God. At best I would say he is a neutral God. Maybe even closer to Evil. If someone came up to me and hugged me and then immediately punched me in the face. I would think the Evil act out did the Good one. I would stay away from a person like that. I would know they were not to be trusted. Some kind of mental case. No, he says nothing of the kind. God ALLOWED for evil to exist, so that a greater good could exist, free will. For God to eliminate evil, God would have to remove the free will of his creations, thus defeating the purpose of creation. This is what you always fall back on. That God is never responsible. So God is not the Creator of all things. to which you will say something like, Evil is not a thing. to which I will say How can we discuss something that does not exist. To which I will realize we are talking about God. LOL Ideas and actions can be created by anything with the ability to think and reason. Even dogs and cats can have ideas and commit actions. Good and Evil can only be applied to actions committed by free moral agents: Humans and Angels. Just about every human and every angel can commit good or evil actions. Evil is NOT a thing with a physical or spiritual presence, evil is a descriptive word used to describe a particular action or thought. God created everything spiritual and created all physical matter and energy. Some of his creations were given free will, allowing them to commit actions which could be characterized as good or evil. By your intentionally warped and completely dishonest line of reasoning, EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD is absolute proof that God exists. Typing on a keyboard? It exists, God must have created it. Drinking a cup of coffee? It exists, God must have created. You KNOW that is a moronic line of reasoning, but you run down it anyways in order to be as annoying and offensive as you can be. So rabbit, if you want to pretend to be a complete moron, be my guest. I don't buy it and I think it's sad that an adult feels the need to try to annoy and offend other adults. |
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This is what you always fall back on. That God is never responsible. So God is not the Creator of all things. to which you will say something like, Evil is not a thing. to which I will say How can we discuss something that does not exist. To which I will realize we are talking about God. LOL Hi Greg! Great to see you!  ~~~ On topic,... Only biblical-based religions need theodicy. The pantheistic and pagan religions don't accuse mankind of bringing sin into the world. So they don't need theodicy. It's not necessary to pin the blame onto all of mankind as being responsible for bringing sin into the world. That's just stupid. There are good people, and there are bad people. This is called Free Will. Actually Christianity denies Free Will by demanding that eveyone be a sinner whether they choose to be or not. There isn't much Free Will in something you have no choice about. All that Christianity does is go around accusing decent people of being sinners. It's an extremely judgmental religion perpetuated by hypocrites who claim not to judge others. What a bunch of crap! They basically judge everyone who doesn't buy into their religion as having rejected God! It's an extremely judgmental religion that tries to force negative guilt complexes onto everyone. Theodicy simply isn't important to the nonjudgmental religions like pantheism and pagan religions. Those religions don't automatically judge eveyone to have turned against God. The whole Christian thing is nothing more than a finger-pointing religion. It's truly negative and should be listed under hate crimes. Teaching little children that they are sinners and they are responsible for God having to have his son butchered on a pole to pay for they nasty bad behavior is nothing short of child absuse. It can be, and has been, emotionally damaging to many people. And it's entirely preached on pure faith with no serious evidence to back it up that it came from any supreme being. There are also a myriad of reasons why it can't possibly be true. It should be abandoned this very moment. So let it be said. So let it be done. In the name of love and all that is good.  |
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Abra, You should send me your address via email, When I finish Christopher Hitchens book, " God is Not Great" I will send it to you, you will love it!
Jeremy. |
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Abra, You should send me your address via email, When I finish Christopher Hitchens book, " God is Not Great" I will send it to you, you will love it! Jeremy. The problem is that I'm not the one who needs to read it.  I would be interested in reading it though just to see what he says. My main question is this,... After he's done pointing out how unrealistic the biblical story is, does he offer a replacement religion or faith? I'm all for exposing the Mediterranean myths as being truly ungodly. But at the same time I'd hate to leave people hanging and thinking that just because the Bible is a farce that means there's no such thing as 'god' or spiritual essence. Does he interweave a pantheistic view in with all of this, or is he advocating atheism? One thing that truly upsets me is that there are so many people who erroneously believe that either the Bible is true, or there is no such thing as 'god'. That's truly sad. There are many other religions out there that have beautiful pictures of spirituality. And many of those at least allow for the recognition of deities. Wicca for example seems to be quite open to leaving the actual view of the "gods" to the individual practitioners. Some forms of Wicca even embrace purely animistic views of the unvierse. (i.e. spirituality without need for deities) I wish more people could realize that God doesn't need to be viewed as an egotistical individual who has his own personal opinions that can't be argued with. There are other pictures of God that are far superior to that view. It doesn't need to be the Bible or nothing. That's truly placing all the eggs in one basket. So does he support spirituality at all? Or is he an atheist? Just curious. |
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That's cute, Spidey. Let me ask you another question... I know he's dead and all... ...but, do you love Hitler? I mean, if he was alive, would you consider him an enemy? I have seen pictures of people who were tortured by Saddam Hussein's government. I have seen pictures of Iraqi Olympic athletes who had arms and legs amputated for not performing as expect at the Olympics. I have read the testimony of a man who had to watch as his relatives, including wife and children, were dropped into a plastic shredder. I mourned when Saddam was executed. My enemy doesn't have flesh or blood. I was a racist at one time, I hated black people. I've changed. If I can change, who's to say that Saddam or Hitler couldn't given the chance? I wonder... Could they be loved if they didn't change? |
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I wonder... Could they be loved if they didn't change? Love is the only thing that could cause them to change. Love of self and others. Jesus loves us all, I try to follow in his example. I don't always succeed, but I do try. So I think we have to try to love the unlovable, after all we don't have to try to love the lovable, do we? |
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