It's not a bipolar system. Good and evil are terms used to describe the amount of moral behavior performed. If measured on a scale of 0 to 100, then 0 would be no moral behavior while 100 would be perfect moral behavior. Not everything can be measured on the bipolar scale, which is the point. Heat and Light are not bipolar. Neither is gravity or electricity. What would be the 0 on the scale, perfectly neutral behavior? Behavior cannot be neutral. If you see someone being murdered and do nothing, that is not neutral, it's immoral to not help. That isn't a neutral when you talk about morality, there is apathy, which is a lesser form of evil. It was evil for Germans to watch the Jews carried off to the concentration camps, but not quite as evil as the Germans who did the carrying off.

aye...

Analogy...

same pricinple applies to good/evil... If you can voice them as opposites they are a measurable substance...

so measure them...

Bet your measure be different from mine...

Cause it would be based upon YOUR reality... which it has become obvious is not the same as mine. (thank that which is that we are all different in some way - life is the greater for it)

Yes. Kinetic energy of atoms. Energy is a something. Indeed. Yes Height is the quantity of atoms stack end to end. Time and space are one thing, spacetime is being stretched by the higgs field, yes its a something also. YESYESYES.

Whats Next.


Yes I have, and now you are saying those where bad analogies?

I doubt anyone will ever be able to measure good and evil in any objective way.

Everything is bi-polar.

All things contain a balance of equal opposites.

-Negative Charge and Positive Charge
-Male and Female
-Left and Right
-Northern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere
-Night and Day

...and so on.

You're quantifying according to Spider's perspective.

Truly.

And Spider's claim that Christians have always had the answer is clearly untrue.

Christianity has produced many different answers depending on which sect you prefer to accept.

For example, at one point in time there were Christians called Cathers. But the pope at that time didn't like their picture so he order armies to murder them all.

That's the true mentality of Christianity.

The Protestants have rejected Catholicism because they refused to accept that any mortal man can speak for God. That would included offering explanations of theodicy.

Yet all the Protestants have done is reject the Pope so that they can become Paper Popes and push their own personal opinions of what God is like onto others.

This is actually in direct violation to the very tenets of what Protestantism was founded on.

From my own personal point of view, the biblical picture of God is hopeless unsalvageable.

Even if theodicy could be explained there is still the humongous problem of an all-powerful God having to solve the problem by having his very own son butchered on a pole.

That flies in the face of God being all-wise and all-powerful. That solution is neither wise, nor does it suggest that God is all-powerful. It truly reeks of extreme desperation on God's part. Like he had no other choice.

The argument that is most often given on this is that God made the law that the "wages of sin is death", so he had no choice but to honor his own law.

But that's utterly absurd. This suggests that God was stupid enough to make such an asinine law in the first place.

That would just be a picture of a God who paints himself into corners that even he can't escape from without having himself nailed to a pole.

I see absolutely no justification for such an utterly absurd picture of a supposedly all-wise all-powerful God who get himself into such unwise powerless situations.

And the bottom line is that this needs to be believed on pure faith

Why would anyone want to believe in such an utterly absurd and negative picture of God on pure faith?

Especially considering that there are much better pictures that one could put their faith into.

It's not like better pictures of God don't exist.

There is another thing too. How could it possibly be that mere mortal men could imagine a better picture of God than what God is actually like? That in itself suggests that mere mortal men can outthink God.

Just based on that insight alone we should choose the best possible picture for God just based on the recognition that God is most likely far superior to the best picture we can conjure up.

Finally, if the coffin of Christianity needs any more nails consider this: The idea of gods requiring blood sacrifices as atonements and appeasement was a common theme in all of the myths in the Mediterranean area including Greek Mythology. Why would the real creator of this universe just happen to lust for blood sacrifices as appeasements and/or atonements? Yet this is precisely what Christianity and the crucifixion of Christ are based on. Without God's need for a blood sacrifice the crucifixion of the sacrificial lamb of God (Jesus Christ) would be meaningless.

Clearly this is just one of the many myths that arose in the Mediterranean region. It's crystal clear that this myth isn't a unique communiqué from one special God. It's clearly just another myth that follows the same superstitions of all the others.

We need to believe that this Mediterranean myth represents the true word of God on pure faith?

You've got to be kidding. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should put any faith in this myth. It's clearly negative, not wise, and it's a picture of a flawed impotent God that can't possible be all-wise and prefect.

The fact that it can't be true should be obvious. No faith required.

And I make no apologies for holding this view nor for sharing it with rational people.

I see this religion as being quite negative and I see no reason to support it on pure faith.

It's just far too negative. It suggests that we are at odds with God and that we are responsible for him having to have his son nailed to a pole for our sake. And just continually harps on sin and salvation, over and over an over again like a broken record. It's all about converting people to a religion using guilt and fear. It has nothing positive to offer humanity. It even predicts a horrible holocaust that will take place, guess where? In the Mediterranean region of course!

It's the cause of much political unrest and it has man pitted against man and nation pitted against nation. Not just the Christian thing, but the whole religion before it fell apart. Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism, and Islam. They are all based on the very same distorted mythology. And they threaten world peace!

Why anyone would want to join that war on the pure faith that they are the reason that God had to have his son butchered on a pole for their sake is totally beyond me.

Question: Abra have you read Christopeher Hitchens book god is not great? If you havnt its like you wrote it lol.
Hitchens has a Vast knowledge of scripture and its refreshing to read.

No, not everything is bipolar.

Light, heat, gravity and electricity are not bipolar. The legal system isn't bipolar. You either completely obey the law or you break the law to some degree.

You picked examples to prove your point, while completely ignoring the examples I gave which completely disprove your point.

Substance: that of which a thing consists; physical matter or material: form and substance.

Is energy physical matter? No.

Is a quantity of atoms a substance? No, it is a measure of substance.

Is time a substance? No.



Why so eager to be wrong again?



No, they perfectly proved my point: No all forces can be measured on a bipolar scale.

I agree... I didn't read your examples.

Doesn't change that I believe that:

"Good" and "Evil" ARE of a bi-polar system.

Who is anyone to think they can quantify degrees of morality?

For that matter...

Who is anyone to think they can determine the big picture of what is "good" and what is "evil"?

One's religion may prescribe a directive only.

Once again, I've already said we cannot do that. But an Omniscient being could.

What is "evil" quantitatively? Good is moral behavior, so what is evil? Immoral behavior? If so, then "evil" is not the polar opposite of "good", it is the absence of good. If they are polar opposites, what is a "neutral" behavior? By neutral behavior, I mean one which isn't good or evil at all.

If one could accept that we are BOTH and not be so terrified of perceived "evil" or "bad" or "immoral" aspects of self and others, perhaps one could live in true peace.

Imagine if the obsessive directive to counter ALL of one's "bad" wasn't so stringently drilled into one's head from the time they can remember...

Perhaps then, there'd be fewer actual serial killers.

Forcing order by instilling fear will always be met with outcomes opposite of what initially may have been intended.

That's a dodge and you know it.

So your theory is that by trying to not be evil, we become evil...come again? So if I try to not cheat on my wife, I will do something worse than cheat on my wife? Sorry, but I don't buy it. It's just a clumsy dodge.

The Allies forced order onto the Axis by instilling fear while bombing the hell out of them and killing Axis forces wherever they could be found. The desired outcome was the end of the third Reich. The outcome was the end of the third Reich. Sorry, but that was an easy one to disprove.

E=MC^2

Yes a Quantity of anything is a thing . . . this is really elementary Spider. Im surprised you are arguing against such simple concepts.

Not understanding energy mass equivalence is ok, not everyone understands.

Not understanding heat flow, and how kinetic energy works is ok.

Not understanding how height is a function of matter is inexcusable. You even said a measure of substance . . WTF spider . . . huh?

I agree not all forces can be measured on a bipolar scale, this does not prove your point about good and evil.

Knowing your height tells me nothing of your weight or composition. If I measure you and a statue and both are the same height, should I assume that you and the statue are the same thing (substance)? No, all I would know is that you are the same height as the statue.

I understand that matter is frozen energy, but I also know that SUBSTANCE refers to physical matter and not energy, as I clearly demonstrated by providing the definition of SUBSTANCE.

EDIT:

You said: "Yes Height is the quantity of atoms stack end to end."

In that sentence, quantity means "number" as in INFORMATION. (now you are trying to use quantity as a synonymy for amount) Information is not a thing, it is a rational value. Can you pick up a thought? No, you cannot. It doesn't exist outside of the realm of thought.

Good is relative.

Name me something that is always good to all people forever.

What about animals? Is it good to all animals also or is it good for people only?


So what happened with the Amalekites? Was that god? If not why is it still in the bible? If it was god, where all the children evil? By your definition they lacked god, well why didn't god come down and give em sum?


We should bottle up this god stuff and sell it, we could make a hefty profit after all its ALL GOOD all the time! YEEHAW! . . . oh wait Billy Graham already did that.

Darn.

Feeding the hungry?

Protecting the helpless?

What if that hungry person is the carrier for a deadly disease, he is just a host is not dying from the disease but is a carrier and lives because you feed him and travels around infecting EVERYONE and EVERYONE dies . ..

Good?

What if the food you give him would have been eaten by someone else . . . and they die . . . .

Good?

What if the food kills him. There is a disorder when you have not eaten in a long time, consuming more then a mouthful can kill you . . . .

Relative relative relative.

There is no absolute good.

What if you protect that helpless person who in the first scenario is a carrier of disease?

I have a good imagination I doubt you can come up with a thing that I cannot imagine a situation where doing good for one person is doing evil to another.

It's always good to feed the hungry. Should we let sick people starve? How is it better to let someone who is hungry go without food?

I named the situation, if that person where infected and could spread that infection and kill and hurt more people . . . . Tell me which is good? Which decision?

There are hard decisions that happen every day, that cannot be labeled with good or evil, believing in absolute good and evil is something that in many cases perpetuates ignorance of doing wrong.