Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: CULTS; their Origins, why they are so bad...
SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Mon 10/27/08 08:21 AM Edited by SkyHook5652 on Mon 10/27/08 08:22 AM
one man's cult is another man's faith If only this were true. Its not that simple or cut and dried. Cultism is about oppression and control of members. Every religion has a touch of cultism in it. It is only a matter of how much control is exerted and how extreme is that control. Freedom is paramount to true spiritual enlightenment. Any organization that prohibits personal freedom leans toward being a cult. JB Personally, I think it is exactly that simple and cut-and-dried. You’re right that cultism is about oppression and control of members. But just exactly who is trying to control whom? If I decide I want to be a part of a cult, who would deny me that right? Would not attempting to stop me from joining a cult be no more than an act of oppression itself? Who’s the pot and who’s the kettle? And who judges which is blacker? I think that organizations who would kidnap children from cults and deprogram them (back to Christianity) are a bit extreme. Thats like one cult stealing members from another cult. On the who is controlling who question I am referring to the cult's control over members. This control can go from mild intimidation, to extreme brainwashing and physical restraint. When the cult or sect or religion begins to busy itself with manipulation of your private and personal daily life and when a member feels the heavy hand of this manipulation, then it is time to consider who is controlling who and ask yourself if you feel oppressed. Some may want to exchange their personal choice and privacy for the benefits of a commune or cult type society and some may choose to do so, but anytime the decision to leave is met with apposition that applies pressure or restraint then you might be in a cult. Check out my other thread... You know you are in a cult when... JB Let’s look at just the educational system. - Public Education is very busy with the manipulation of the private and personal lives of children. - Any attempt at “leaving” Public Education is met with extreme opposition, and can, at its worst, actually include incarceration for those who oppose it too strongly. - This includes both parent’s who want to get their kids out of the public school system entirely, as well as individual public school students who want to “get out of the school building” - Not sure what you would consider “physical restraint”. Personally, I would think that locking someone in a building with guards at the doors falls under that category. There is a significant amount of that type physical restraint in public schools. - “Extreme brainwashing”? Well, that whole subject has been done. And the jury is still out on “brainwashin vis-à-vis public schools”. So far, Public Education has only one trait that separates it from other cults – support of the majority. Virtually every citizen of this country in the last century has been a member of that cult for at least 12 years. That’s quite a following for an institution that is so thoroughly controlling, adamantly enforced and completely intolerant of opposing views, but is not considered a cult.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/27/08 08:23 AM
Jeanniebean: "Freedom is paramount to true spiritual enlightenment. Any organization that prohibits personal freedom leans toward being a cult. "" .......................... Drewdrew: So a government that follows a certain philosophy say a republican party majority or communist majority party or pagan party or Christian majority may prohibit religious or spiritual freedoms and total enlightenment? It has happened. A government that prohibits religious freedom, outlaws people wearing religious symbols in public, forces schools to pray to their particular god, forces women to cover their faces in public etc. is restricting personal freedom. A government that passes laws that pertain only to some religious beliefs and customs are restricting freedom. Freedom is paramount. A cult restricts personal choices and attempts to control individuals. The amount to which this is enforced determines the extremity of said cult. (If a republican candidate is making a speech you can bet they are expected to adhere to the philosophy of the party and agree with major issues, but I was speaking mostly about religions and religious cults.)

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/27/08 08:29 AM
one man's cult is another man's faith If only this were true. Its not that simple or cut and dried. Cultism is about oppression and control of members. Every religion has a touch of cultism in it. It is only a matter of how much control is exerted and how extreme is that control. Freedom is paramount to true spiritual enlightenment. Any organization that prohibits personal freedom leans toward being a cult. JB Personally, I think it is exactly that simple and cut-and-dried. You’re right that cultism is about oppression and control of members. But just exactly who is trying to control whom? If I decide I want to be a part of a cult, who would deny me that right? Would not attempting to stop me from joining a cult be no more than an act of oppression itself? Who’s the pot and who’s the kettle? And who judges which is blacker? I think that organizations who would kidnap children from cults and deprogram them (back to Christianity) are a bit extreme. Thats like one cult stealing members from another cult. On the who is controlling who question I am referring to the cult's control over members. This control can go from mild intimidation, to extreme brainwashing and physical restraint. When the cult or sect or religion begins to busy itself with manipulation of your private and personal daily life and when a member feels the heavy hand of this manipulation, then it is time to consider who is controlling who and ask yourself if you feel oppressed. Some may want to exchange their personal choice and privacy for the benefits of a commune or cult type society and some may choose to do so, but anytime the decision to leave is met with apposition that applies pressure or restraint then you might be in a cult. Check out my other thread... You know you are in a cult when... JB Let’s look at just the educational system. - Public Education is very busy with the manipulation of the private and personal lives of children. - Any attempt at “leaving” Public Education is met with extreme opposition, and can, at its worst, actually include incarceration for those who oppose it too strongly. - This includes both parent’s who want to get their kids out of the public school system entirely, as well as individual public school students who want to “get out of the school building” - Not sure what you would consider “physical restraint”. Personally, I would think that locking someone in a building with guards at the doors falls under that category. There is a significant amount of that type physical restraint in public schools. - “Extreme brainwashing”? Well, that whole subject has been done. And the jury is still out on “brainwashin vis-à-vis public schools”. So far, Public Education has only one trait that separates it from other cults – support of the majority. Virtually every citizen of this country in the last century has been a member of that cult for at least 12 years. That’s quite a following for an institution that is so thoroughly controlling, adamantly enforced and completely intolerant of opposing views, but is not considered a cult. I agree with you on the public Education thing. That is why I support the idea of home schooling, which by the way, is always an option. I have a cousin who has five children who are being completely home schooled and they are very bright and way ahead of most public schooled children. My sisters daughter is home schooling her son and they are simply preparing him to pass a GED test. It depends on the state and community you live in on how much they get into your personal lives. Yes you do have to be careful not to let you children get trapped up in the system. Government is good at trying to control people's personal and private family life. Public schools are getting ridiculous with their lock downs and regulations. If I had children I would keep them out of public schools. JB

AdventureBegins Joined Tue 04/10/07 Posts: 7666	Mon 10/27/08 10:13 AM
""Technically speaking, a cult is nothing more than a religion or philosophy that goes against the beliefs of the majority. "" ......................... by this definition all of Christainity (or other bible based religions)is a cult... The religion founded by mohmammad and based on the Koran is the largest religion in the world ... Which makes it the majority and by your reasoning all other religions are cults.

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Mon 10/27/08 10:32 AM
The Messiah was the leader of a cult in his day. That they were afraid of...Shalom...Miles

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/27/08 10:36 AM
The Messiah was the leader of a cult in his day. That they were afraid of...Shalom...Miles I understand there were a lot of cults throughout history. I think a true cult has to have a living dynamic leader. Once there is no leader, the energy leaves the cult. With Christianity, it was a business from the very beginning when it became a religion out of Rome and it was a cult in the sense that the Pope was supposed to be the dynamic leader and was supposed to represent God on earth. That has changed for most people.

AdventureBegins Joined Tue 04/10/07 Posts: 7666	Mon 10/27/08 10:39 AM
The Messiah was the leader of a cult in his day. That they were afraid of...Shalom...Miles Has the One to be Known as the Messiah come? Many prophesys not yet come to pass.

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Mon 10/27/08 10:40 AM
Could you imagine living in the 11th and 12th centuries where if you did not agree with the Pope they killed you. Whole villages being wiped out in the name of_____ Shalom...Miles

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 10/27/08 10:41 AM
Could you imagine living in the 11th and 12th centuries where if you did not agree with the Pope they killed you. Whole villages being wiped out in the name of_____ Shalom...Miles I did live in those centuries. I died many times.

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Mon 10/27/08 10:42 AM
What prophecies AB? I guess you are talking about when he was impaled thier were still prophecies relating to him unfullfilled...Shalom...Miles

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Mon 10/27/08 10:47 AM
JB.. I do claim ancestry from thier who were killed. Believeing exactly as I believe. Strange though they were about the largest group to get wiped out 800,000 some got away. Yet they are not spoken of much at all... Martin Luther is claimed to be the reformist from the Catholic church yet Petra Valdez sent a letter to the Pope telling him to repent.. The Pope liked that one.. Shalom Miles

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Mon 10/27/08 11:19 AM
one man's cult is another man's faith If only this were true. Its not that simple or cut and dried. Cultism is about oppression and control of members. Every religion has a touch of cultism in it. It is only a matter of how much control is exerted and how extreme is that control. Freedom is paramount to true spiritual enlightenment. Any organization that prohibits personal freedom leans toward being a cult. JB Personally, I think it is exactly that simple and cut-and-dried. You’re right that cultism is about oppression and control of members. But just exactly who is trying to control whom? If I decide I want to be a part of a cult, who would deny me that right? Would not attempting to stop me from joining a cult be no more than an act of oppression itself? Who’s the pot and who’s the kettle? And who judges which is blacker? I think that organizations who would kidnap children from cults and deprogram them (back to Christianity) are a bit extreme. Thats like one cult stealing members from another cult. On the who is controlling who question I am referring to the cult's control over members. This control can go from mild intimidation, to extreme brainwashing and physical restraint. When the cult or sect or religion begins to busy itself with manipulation of your private and personal daily life and when a member feels the heavy hand of this manipulation, then it is time to consider who is controlling who and ask yourself if you feel oppressed. Some may want to exchange their personal choice and privacy for the benefits of a commune or cult type society and some may choose to do so, but anytime the decision to leave is met with apposition that applies pressure or restraint then you might be in a cult. Check out my other thread... You know you are in a cult when... JB Let’s look at just the educational system. - Public Education is very busy with the manipulation of the private and personal lives of children. - Any attempt at “leaving” Public Education is met with extreme opposition, and can, at its worst, actually include incarceration for those who oppose it too strongly. - This includes both parent’s who want to get their kids out of the public school system entirely, as well as individual public school students who want to “get out of the school building” - Not sure what you would consider “physical restraint”. Personally, I would think that locking someone in a building with guards at the doors falls under that category. There is a significant amount of that type physical restraint in public schools. - “Extreme brainwashing”? Well, that whole subject has been done. And the jury is still out on “brainwashin vis-à-vis public schools”. So far, Public Education has only one trait that separates it from other cults – support of the majority. Virtually every citizen of this country in the last century has been a member of that cult for at least 12 years. That’s quite a following for an institution that is so thoroughly controlling, adamantly enforced and completely intolerant of opposing views, but is not considered a cult. I agree with you on the public Education thing. That is why I support the idea of home schooling, which by the way, is always an option. I have a cousin who has five children who are being completely home schooled and they are very bright and way ahead of most public schooled children. My sisters daughter is home schooling her son and they are simply preparing him to pass a GED test. It depends on the state and community you live in on how much they get into your personal lives. Yes you do have to be careful not to let you children get trapped up in the system. Government is good at trying to control people's personal and private family life. Public schools are getting ridiculous with their lock downs and regulations. If I had children I would keep them out of public schools. JB Yes, you're right about the Home Schooling thing. I sort of just left it out of the picture to make the point hit a little harder is all. And thank's for your additions to the point.

splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Mon 10/27/08 11:23 AM
Notice there've been a lot of topics lately on cults? I'm really curious... I'm wondering what spurred this current interest?

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Mon 10/27/08 11:24 AM
Technically speaking, a cult is nothing more than a religion or philosophy that goes against the beliefs of the majority. by this definition all of Christainity (or other bible based religions)is a cult... The religion founded by mohmammad and based on the Koran is the largest religion in the world ... Which makes it the majority and by your reasoning all other religions are cults. Yes, that would be true on a worldwide basis. And within the subset of the United States, Christianity would be the majority. And withing the subset of Salt Lace City, LDS would be the majority. It applies to whatever scope you're looking at.

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Mon 10/27/08 12:48 PM Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Mon 10/27/08 12:49 PM
In general; Why do CULTS even exist? When does say a say a philosophy, idealogy or religion become an OCULT? Why is it so hard for people to break away from an ocult? Big dif between Ocult and Cult... and by the way... which cult of christanity do you belong to... by my last count there were over 400 christian cults. cult... Offshoot of or having diferent doctrine than the original. Actually more like ~38000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Christians

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Mon 10/27/08 01:40 PM Edited by Krimsa on Mon 10/27/08 01:44 PM
Notice there've been a lot of topics lately on cults? I'm really curious... I'm wondering what spurred this current interest? Ive noticed that also. I attributed it to several regulars who post in the religion forum either currently being in cults, or having been involved with them in the past. I cant say I have ever been myself personally so my understanding of them is limited. It also is not very clear what defines a cult, even in legal terms. From the commonly accepted definition of "cult" the cosmetic sales people involved with "Mary Kay" could quite certainly even fall into that catagory. I might find myself hard pressed to not swear allegiance to one of these groups for the promise of a pink Cadillac.

splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Mon 10/27/08 01:43 PM
Notice there've been a lot of topics lately on cults? I'm really curious... I'm wondering what spurred this current interest? Ive noticed that also. I attributed it to several regulars who post in the religion forum either currently being in cults, or having been involved with them in the past. I cant say I have ever been myself personally so my understanding of them is limited. It also is not very clear what defines a cult, even in legal terms. From the commonly accepted definition of "cult" the cosmetic sales people involved with "Mary Key" could quite certainly even fall into that catagory. LOL Yeah... and have you ever had to deal with a person into Amway? Dude!

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Mon 10/27/08 01:50 PM Edited by Krimsa on Mon 10/27/08 01:54 PM
Notice there've been a lot of topics lately on cults? I'm really curious... I'm wondering what spurred this current interest? Ive noticed that also. I attributed it to several regulars who post in the religion forum either currently being in cults, or having been involved with them in the past. I cant say I have ever been myself personally so my understanding of them is limited. It also is not very clear what defines a cult, even in legal terms. From the commonly accepted definition of "cult" the cosmetic sales people involved with "Mary Key" could quite certainly even fall into that catagory. LOL Yeah... and have you ever had to deal with a person into Amway? Dude! Yep! I had a relative selling that shi- back in the 90s. It got to the point that I did not want them visiting at all and would demand that they leave it outside. I think I just have a natural distrust and aversion to these things. Be them religious in nature, cosmetic, or cleaning supply designated.