I don't really know, Jeannie...still discovering that answer daily.

What I believe today is that I am here to find a peace, that I may add a piece so I can contribute to others finding peace so that they might add a piece.

When I discover gentleness, serenity and peace in my own existence, only then am I able to give and receive in a way that adds value to the people and life around me.

Why do people not have peace?

Who are you at war with?

Yourself?

Others?

People talk of finding peace. I found mine.

I divorced my husband.

Jeannie

I got thrown out of heaven.

I'm not at war with anyone, anymore...I used to be at war with what others expected of me vs. who I really am.

I found my peace, too, Jeannie, and nothing beats THAT!

I can't answer why people don't have peace, but I'd suspect it would be a similar reason as mine - at least for some.

Kicking the husband habit doesn't hurt, either.

I found my peace a long time ago.

Now I'm just looking for a piece.

I'm here because I was born. It took me a long time, but now I control my life, and when I die, I go back into the earth. What has become a reality for me is that I control my own life, no one else's, until I die, then I go back to the universal "spirit" to clarify the concept. No reason for living other than to experience life and love it and myself as much as possible.

Loosing the will to live is distinct from committing suicide.

Said more accurately, the question really is ...

'... Other than humans, do otherwise 'healthy and reproductively-capable' individuals of any other species perform actions 'foreseeably' guaranteed to result in their immediate death?...'

... The answer is NO.

Now if you violate any one of the conditions in the preceeding statement, such as foregoing the condition of '... perform actions 'foreseeably' guaranteed to result in their immediate death...' with loosing the will to live,

... then the answer is YES.

... but it would no longer meet the 'foreseeably' condition which is fundamntal when discussing suicide.

Foreseeably guarenteed to result in one's immediate death, implies conscious and willfull intent to cause that immediate death to oneself.

Strictly the loss of will to live, would mean most older and sick people, whom 'give up the fight', would be deemed to have committed suicide?!?!?!

It is argued in the science community, that only humans can committ suicide as defined above.

They suggest it is due to human distinct neocortex configuration.

While other mammals share neocortexes with humans, and the 'mirror neurones' (mimicing?) dimension of the neocortex, human beings have a vastly superior number of mirror neurones in the brain, as well as a far greater number of connections between the mirror neurones and the neo-cortex.

This is what gives humans their unique (vastly enhanced) 'self-conscious' and self-aware distinction over other mammals.
This is what makes humans capable of having a 'foreseeably' certainty of immediate death (willfull and conscious), where it wouldn't neurologically be possible (lower mirror neurones count, and lower connecions to neocortex) for other mammals. They may have lost the will to live, but aren't capable of mirroring the foreseeable guarenteed result in their immidiate death. No connection is made.

Sick or injured animals of many different types can act in such ways as to guarantee a speedier end to their suffering, and this appears to include whale beachings. But that can't be confused with suicide.

Whale beachings are also one reason for the qualifier "foreseeable," in that it appears healthy whales may follow a sick leader when the latter beaches--as social animals, they instinctively trust their leader, which under most circumstances would not lead them to their doom, so their unexpected (to them) beaching cannot be considered genuinely suicidal.

For that matter, a rabbit that walks out into an open field when there's a hungry owl nearby may be performing an action virtually guaranteed to result in death--but not foreseeably so.
Nor would an animal that dies defending its young necessarily be considered suicidal, even if the enemy is something pretty much impossible to defeat; after all, the enemy might retreat if it doesn't seem worth the trouble, so sometimes defense works.

The reason for the clause "reproductively-capable", as I understand it, is that there are many social insects with sterile, suicidal soldiers or workers--for example, termite soldiers will explode their bodies, which are filled with sticky guts, immobilizing their enemies in goo.

As a final note, the stuff about lemmings jumping off cliffs, of course, is a myth.

wrong thread. sorry. Did this twice today!

Voile.....

ummmm.....who says that whale beachings are 'pod' mentality?

Who says that ONLY humans are capable of decision making?

I feel that is such a narrow arrogant stance, that is as ludicrous as saying that the bible is the ONLY truth in the world...

Come on.... I have not ever found your posts to be so singular, and so insular, as to these ones...

There are numerous reported active decisions made by animals, and willing oneself to death, through starvation, jumping off a cliff, beaching themselves, running into a vehicle INTENTIONALLY, and many many other examples of conscious decision making made by animals, in taking their own life.

I am almost offended at the assumption that humans have these extra gismos in their brain so therefore are above all other creatures in consciousness...

You have obviously never surfed a wave with dolphins, swam with whales, or played in the thermals with eagles, whilst on a hang glider...

I've seen spiders who carry their young on their back and when the time comes, the mother spider releases her digestive juices and begins to dissolve in order to feed her young. They eat her alive. While this is probably part of the cycle of life and reproduction, I would say that she gave her life in the interest of the survival of her species. This could well be in the survival programing thus a natural law.

JB

Life is a Test.. I am being Tested on Survival

Can't afford therapy.

A piece of what?

Peice of Pizza.. a slice of heaven, know whatta Im sayin ... Heyyyyyyyyyyyyy Fuggetaboutit capisce

why not

To suffer and (hopefully) be redeeemed.

Dear Jess,

It was a year ago or so, if my memory serves me well that I fought tooth and nail against the assertions of a poster whom claimed that of all god's creations, humans were far superior, because of their intellectual capacity.

I believe you posted on that thread as well.

If you remember my stance then, it hasn't changed one bit.

You are drawing the conclusion from the higher count of 'mirror neurones' and connections to neocortex, that I would be claiming that humans are superior.

I never said, nor have I ever implied that.

Higher mirror neurones count, doesn't imply at all that humans are superior.

Quite to the contrary, my argument last year, and still today, is that that higher 'mirror neurones' count in the human brain, creates more of a perverse 'self-conscious' CURSE for humans!!!

My claim, and I'm sorry if I didn't state it clearly, is that this 'I' based, 'egocentric', 'self-conscious' centric, 'personal' dimension of the human neocortex, IS what tends to DISSONNECT US from life's vital forces.

By focusing so much attention on the 'I', personal, 'egocentric' dimension, the 'mirror neurones' and connections to neocortex are creating '... a picture of the thing...', that we end confusing as '... the thing!!!...'

Humans are not superior in any way shape or form. They're permanently confused for the most part.

Other mamals do not share that confusion, and delusion with humans.

If there are superior creatures, although that is not a perspective I find useful, it would be any other mammals, besides human beings, ... and it will remain so until humans evolve, and free themselves from the picture, and partake in the REAL THING!!!

We have a lot more to learn from other mammals, and I'm afraid very little to teach.

The only thing I foresee is that your posts are slowly becoming more long-winded than mine.

That's a pretty tall order!!!

Im your typical aquatic mammal.

Eat, have fun and chase the cuties.

Life is too short not to!

Dolphins have the right idea!