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| Topic: Let's Try This Again | |
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all for one and one for all is the truth of love......peace
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Sir Tribo wrote. A clear line of man evolving from apes that had evolved from lemurs or dogs or cats or fish or less than this? just asking.? I took a refresher course earlier this year on Biological Anthropology It was a 24 lecture course and although the bulk of the course was focused on the actual development of man, the early lectures did indeed cover the evolutionary pathways from monkey to man. The evidence was quite convincing to me personally. But then I confess that I have absolutely no problem with evolution. I see it as being a perfectly natural explanation of how we got here. From my point of view it doesn't fly in the face of anything divine, or spiritual at all. On the contrary, for me, I'm just amazed at the process. I think it is every bit as profound as some Greek Mythological type of Godhead blowing life into a pile of dirt to create a man from scratch. From my point of view, the process of manufacture is unimportant. What rolls off the assembly line as a finished product is the real treasure. Just as a matter of interest Tribo, I take evolution far back beyond the dawn of man. As a chemist in college I was fascinated with the evolution of the primordial soup. How did the first amino acids come to be. How did DNA itself evolve. Those were the real miracles in my mind. The difference between an ape and a human is trivial in comparison. The biggest difference between an ape and a human is that a human is arrogant and an ape isn't. But the real question Tribo, is what gave rise to amino acids and DNA. Well, what are amino acids and DNA? They are molecules! And what are molecules, they are assemblies of atoms. If DNA is the blueprint for life, then the atoms are the blueprint for DNA! In particular the Carbon atom. Although we can't discount the other atoms as being unnecessary. They most certainly are. But the other atoms are trivial in comparison with the carbon atom. And the reason lies in it's ability to form so many differnet kinds of bonds. The carbon atom really is the King of atoms. It is the 'blueprint' around which all important biological molecules are formed. The carbon atom (along with a soup containing various other less flexible atoms) naturally evolved into amino acids and DNA. So the key to evolution lies with the atoms and their properties and that takes us to the stars,... Where did these atoms come from? Well guess what? They weren't always around. They too evolved in what is called the 'kitchen' of the stars. The carbon atom is formed inside of star. It didn't exist at the Big Bang. It too "evolved" through a process of nucleogenesis which is all describe perfectly by Quantum Theory. So whilst these superstitious uneducated religious people are arguing about apes and dinosaurs the real search for an understanding of true evolution is going on in the field of Quantum theory. The real question isn't about how man evolved from apes, but rather why atoms are synthesized inside of stars with absolute precision. If there is a creator, he's far beyond any myths that were ever written by men. Only scientists are bold enough to go where mythologists fear to tread. They look into the eye of God and worship the knowledge that God bestows upon them directly. Scientist are listening to God. Mythologists are trying to tell God what he must be like. Only scientists are true followers of God.  All the others are Satan worshipers.  Wow, you might need to tell me more about these lectures you attended. I have to agree with you I find the study of human evolution VERY interesting and actually exciting research in many ways. I remember reading a book during school entitled "The Naked Ape". It’s outdated now of course, written in 1967. Not entirely however as it is written from the perspective of a zoologist studying the "human animal as a species". It also compares them to other animals as far as their adaptive skills and how human behavior largely evolved in order to meet the challenges of prehistoric life as a hunter-gatherer. Good read. 
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Sir Tribo wrote. A clear line of man evolving from apes that had evolved from lemurs or dogs or cats or fish or less than this? just asking.? I took a refresher course earlier this year on Biological Anthropology It was a 24 lecture course and although the bulk of the course was focused on the actual development of man, the early lectures did indeed cover the evolutionary pathways from monkey to man. The evidence was quite convincing to me personally. But then I confess that I have absolutely no problem with evolution. I see it as being a perfectly natural explanation of how we got here. From my point of view it doesn't fly in the face of anything divine, or spiritual at all. On the contrary, for me, I'm just amazed at the process. I think it is every bit as profound as some Greek Mythological type of Godhead blowing life into a pile of dirt to create a man from scratch. From my point of view, the process of manufacture is unimportant. What rolls off the assembly line as a finished product is the real treasure. Just as a matter of interest Tribo, I take evolution far back beyond the dawn of man. As a chemist in college I was fascinated with the evolution of the primordial soup. How did the first amino acids come to be. How did DNA itself evolve. Those were the real miracles in my mind. The difference between an ape and a human is trivial in comparison. The biggest difference between an ape and a human is that a human is arrogant and an ape isn't. But the real question Tribo, is what gave rise to amino acids and DNA. Well, what are amino acids and DNA? They are molecules! And what are molecules, they are assemblies of atoms. If DNA is the blueprint for life, then the atoms are the blueprint for DNA! In particular the Carbon atom. Although we can't discount the other atoms as being unnecessary. They most certainly are. But the other atoms are trivial in comparison with the carbon atom. And the reason lies in it's ability to form so many different kinds of bonds. The carbon atom really is the King of atoms. It is the 'blueprint' around which all important biological molecules are formed. The carbon atom (along with a soup containing various other less flexible atoms) naturally evolved into amino acids and DNA. So the key to evolution lies with the atoms and their properties and that takes us to the stars,... Where did these atoms come from? Well guess what? They weren't always around. They too evolved in what is called the 'kitchen' of the stars. The carbon atom is formed inside of star. It didn't exist at the Big Bang. It too "evolved" through a process of nucleogenesis which is all describe perfectly by Quantum Theory. So whilst these superstitious uneducated religious people are arguing about apes and dinosaurs the real search for an understanding of true evolution is going on in the field of Quantum theory. The real question isn't about how man evolved from apes, but rather why atoms are synthesized inside of stars with absolute precision. If there is a creator, he's far beyond any myths that were ever written by men. Only scientists are bold enough to go where mythologists fear to tread. They look into the eye of God and worship the knowledge that God bestows upon them directly. Scientist are listening to God. Mythologists are trying to tell God what he must be like. Only scientists are true followers of God. All the others are Satan worshipers. tnx majik man - the most important thing you said was: >>The difference between an ape and a human is trivial in comparison. The biggest difference between an ape and a human is that a human is arrogant and an ape isn't.<< I find it interesting while watching TV science channel and history chan, and discovery that they had a show on chimpanzees in the wild - thought provoking and educational beyond anything i had seen before. the scientist doing the story showed there behavior as most like human in this sense, they actually killed one of there own. i still don't know what the chimp did to deserve such fate but the rest surrounded him and attacked and killed him, it was a most violent death. they also showed them hunting other smaller monkeys and tearing them apart limb by limb while they were still alive and the look on the monkeys face while this was taking place. And i thought to myself - WOW - if that isn't "manlike", i don't know what is. if i see it being advertised i will let you know if it interest you - not the brutality but the societal behavior without any clue by the chimps of how they were behaving any different than man was. It posed the question - did we learn from them or them from us? |
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Edited by
wouldee
on
Tue 08/12/08 02:35 PM
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and this diatribe is next on the list to be removed as a credible excuse fro declaring God dead too.
What a leap , abra!!!!!!!!!!  Importing filters and assumptions into the imperical evidence of investigative observation of fact and employing an audit trail of succession to it as explanation for ccreation. Are you daft? do you not see that evolution is contingent upon such contrived congruences? everyone of your esteemed teachers are delusional in their motives and asppirations. It is, however, indicative of the kind of mind that would explore the possibilities without ever asking why they are doing it in truth. It is abundantly clear that romantic notions are attached to the discoveries of the inner workings of matter, but importing your brand of explanation for creation itself takes longer than that which even the evolutionist would concede is necessary and observable from their own observations. The whole of science is so blindly dangerous when viewed in the light of the foolishness, that I am not surprised more idiots weren't burned at the stake in the Dark Ages. if the good scientists had the audacity to recognize leaving God out of their observations and just continue on with their exploration of creation and its bits and pieces it would better understand God and man himself, than from the stupidity exhibited in the prejudices and hidden agendas of the whole scientific community active today. The separation of church and state did not extend far enoughand is not the only separation that belongs in civil society. Civil society needs to be protected from the abuses of the scientific community that parade their findings and machinations as truth. Truth comes from God alone. Sticking to the factual observations of creation and nature better serves humanity without the pontifications of the tinkerers. Moral judgement is abusive in the hends of the scientific community. Hiroshima and Nagasaki have taught us that. May morality reign over the unbridled lusts of the tinkerers and may the calmer influence of wisdom prevail to secure for posterity's sake some semblance of reality. meanwhile, kiddies, keep dancing...  God is not mocked, but man sure delights in mocking himself in thinking he is go9ing to declare God dead. dance, children.......... but remember to pay the fiddler with your penny.     |
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and sources, jeannie, don't forget to give sources for the proof that we are goo. Proof that we are goo, finally, something I think I can show without a doubt. The bible says we are goo, there's a source. We are not created from dirt, but clay, a gooey substance. Not enough tangible proof? Want something we can put our hands on? How about talking the local caretaker into digging up a grave that's about 8 years old. With todays interment practices the human body returns to goo, not to skeletal remains. Something about the hard seal on modern coffins. WHOO YOO I got to interject!!! |
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Milady Krimsa wrote: Wow, you might need to tell me more about these lectures you attended. Well, the Biological Anthropology lectures were concerned mainly with the evolution of man (It was a rather breif discription of the evidences of how we actually evolved from monkeys, but none the less that part of it was still quite interesting and compelling). The rest of it had to do with how it is believed that we became gatheres and hunters, etc. It answers all of Feral's question of why it took so long to get "smart". That's also a bit of an irony because Creationists like to claim that we evolved too fast that evolution couldn't be true, and now Feral's arguing that we didn't get smart fast enough. They'll argue anything that seems to make sense at the moment. By the way, all the stuff I mentioned about DNA, amino acids, atoms and neucleogenisis were all from other lectures on chemistry, astrophysics, particle physics, and quantum field theory. None of that was in the Biological Anthropology lectures. |
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all for one and one for all is the truth of love......peace Yeah, I’m just not sure I’m going to be running from any science labs nor texts in the near future based on a lot of proselytizing and heavy handed admonishments coming from...humans.
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and sources, jeannie, don't forget to give sources for the proof that we are goo. Proof that we are goo, finally, something I think I can show without a doubt. The bible says we are goo, there's a source. We are not created from dirt, but clay, a gooey substance. Not enough tangible proof? Want something we can put our hands on? How about talking the local caretaker into digging up a grave that's about 8 years old. With todays interment practices the human body returns to goo, not to skeletal remains. Something about the hard seal on modern coffins. WHOO YOO I got to interject!!!  I love it!!!!!!!! my point too. fossils are contradictory, aren't they? where is an asteroid when we need one, I say!!!! not a little whimpy one, but a big one to get everybody's attention. there are sling stones out there with our name on it. hurry up you scientists, you!!!!!!! I want my goo!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Just a quickie note to Wouldee, I'm not declaring God to be dead Wouldee.  On the contrary, I think my faith in God is so far beyond yours that you can't even comprehend it. You demand that God be like ancient men claim. I allow God to be whatever she wants to be. Disclaimer: The gender reference is just a personal pronoun that sounds better than "it".
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I usually stay out of religious forums because of many different opinions and interpretations of facts, but I just wanted to point out that Jericho was founded around 6500 BC which is 2500 years prior to creationists forming of the earth. NOBODY has ever been able to explain that one to me.
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Just a quickie note to Wouldee, I'm not declaring God to be dead Wouldee. On the contrary, I think my faith in God is so far beyond yours that you can't even comprehend it. You demand that God be like ancient men claim. I allow God to be whatever she wants to be. Disclaimer: The gender reference is just a personal pronoun that sounds better than "it". (_E=MC2_)  your reson for the personal pronoun is your belief that a goddess such as Jellybean brought forth the universe in labor - hahaha |
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RO RO RO your Boat Wrote: WHOO YOO I got to interject!!! A primal injection of RO to invigorate the show and lift our thoughts to higher plots on a spiritual plateau His need to say "Hello" with an intellectual glow will boost the thread from beyond the dead and fill us from head to toe |
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This whole creationism bit drives me mad.
In my mind, the theory of evolution does not, in any way, disprove the presence of a divine being (or several :P). Who's to say we weren't created as one thing first, then gently changed as the world changed around us? Why can't the hand of the divine be in that? Everything changes, in some small way, as it's surrounding environment alters. Why cant we? If god created us in his own image (not my opinion), could that not mean something more subtle than 'god looks just like me'? Isn't in a little naive to take everything you read at a literal value? |
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Tribology wrote: your reson for the personal pronoun is your belief that a goddess such as Jellybean brought forth the universe in labor - hahaha I was hoping that would slip by undetected. You're too damn alert Tribo. By the way, I was actually a Tribologist at one time. No kidding. It's true. Do you know what a Tribologist is? Is that where you got your screen name from? |
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OW: Isn't in a little naive to take everything you read at a literal value?
Tribo: no it's >>>alot nieve!!<<< not even the bible can be taken literally, nor can any other info that does not have physical proof. MO |
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Just a quickie note to Wouldee, I'm not declaring God to be dead Wouldee. On the contrary, I think my faith in God is so far beyond yours that you can't even comprehend it. You demand that God be like ancient men claim. I allow God to be whatever she wants to be. Disclaimer: The gender reference is just a personal pronoun that sounds better than "it". abra, on a personal note, the metaphor of war is employed in your combative and competitive insistence in the display of your profusions. How is it that your disdain for warlike imagery doesn't temper your desire to declare your superiority? Your faith, abra, is not in God, but in your estimations and assumptive prejudices at best. I demand that you not speak for God, contrary to your predilections that mirror nothing resembling my affirmations as far as you can imagine given the faculties that you display. pencils down, abra. wrong again. So, tell me, abra, what does that little quip have to do with evolution and science's far reaching imaginations in so far as science interjects conjecture as fact and employs filtered justifications for the arrogance of that little slight and oversight. It is, after all, merely a lapse of Judgement. no truth here from you, and no facts either. only slippery excuses for finding it necessary to remind me of your vast superiority. all hail king abra his pontificance.
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The Pagan wrote: This whole creationism bit drives me mad. In my mind, the theory of evolution does not, in any way, disprove the presence of a divine being (or several :P). Who's to say we weren't created as one thing first, then gently changed as the world changed around us? Why can't the hand of the divine be in that? I'm with you all the way on this one. I'm a spiritual person. I believe that our true essence is spiritual. I have no problem with evolution. If god created us in his own image (not my opinion), could that not mean something more subtle than 'god looks just like me'? Isn't in a little naive to take everything you read at a literal value? I'm afraid owl have to disagree with you here. I don't think that taking everything you read at a literal value is a little naive. Personally, I think it's extremely naive. |
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Tribology wrote: your reson for the personal pronoun is your belief that a goddess such as Jellybean brought forth the universe in labor - hahaha I was hoping that would slip by undetected. You're too damn alert Tribo. By the way, I was actually a Tribologist at one time. No kidding. It's true. Do you know what a Tribologist is? Is that where you got your screen name from? My nickname is a shortening of "triboluminescent" something i was studying at the time in conjuncture with CHEMY- ( my other nickname)luminesence and bioluminesence. the three main cold light types. I can also see where trilobites may enter the picture as something you might be referring to - out side of that I'm not sure? enlighten me majik man? |
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OW: Isn't in a little naive to take everything you read at a literal value? Tribo: no it's >>>alot nieve!!<<< not even the bible can be taken literally, nor can any other info that does not have physical proof. MO I see you beat me to that one Tribo. I'm getting feeble in my old age. 
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OW: Isn't in a little naive to take everything you read at a literal value? Tribo: no it's >>>alot nieve!!<<< not even the bible can be taken literally, nor can any other info that does not have physical proof. MO I see you beat me to that one Tribo. I'm getting feeble in my old age. your the youngster not me- suck it up MM, your still able to do it - i have faith in you hahaha |
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