Well of course you have a sundae with lots of cherries on it too.

I opened my hotel window one night while staying in downtown Denver. Below on the street were two men arguing. They had been drinking. They went on and on all hours of the night arguing about some very insignificant thing. I don't know if they were friends or not, but if they were friends they were chipping away at their friendship as they stood their positions.

Being detached from the subject of the argument, I could see how silly they were being. It reminded me of two ants I saw pulling and tugging on a dead bug in opposite directions and not getting anywhere.

Why do we waste our energy pulling and tugging at each other? Why do we allow greedy evil men to goad us into war and killing of each other? We are all human beings and that is a wonderful thing. We are capable of such love and compassion. We want peace and just to live a good life.

Everyone has an opinion. Some people need to think that they have all the answers. We spend our lives fighting over scraps of truth and we waste precious time.

We should be living our lives to the fullest and spending time doing what we love and with people we love instead of wasting it on this forum with the delusion that we are going to make a difference in someone's life or lead someone to our truth.

I for one think I have had enough, heard enough, and spent enough time on this club. I guess it serves a purpose, because it has helped me to think and to evaluate my world view.

We learn about ourselves when we interact with others. We are social animals. But now I have to get back to what we call reality.

JB

Well, like Eljay told Krimsa in another thread,...

We'll all here because we don't have a real life.

But at least we're all in the same boat.

Is you web cam on? Can I watch you paint?

there was a boy, a very strange enchanted boy,

they say he wandered very far................. very far........................................ over land and sea.........

a little shy, and sad of eye, but - very wise was he.

And then one day, one magic day he past my way,

and while we spoke of many things ---- fools and kings ----- this he said to me:

" The greatest thing............................

you'll ever learn................................

is just to love -------

And be Loved --- in return"

sorry tribo, just can't help but see what seems as a great deception........

if one loves, with any notion or need or want to get love back, then one is DOOMED to never find love......

is this not the great deception of love?

is this not what bring misery to many doorsteps?

to say to love, lead to a pit of misery, as this feed the notion in the mind that make one believe love is not already had, or is a state of being that can be DEFINED, and to wander and seek to do, or to get, when truly only knowing that love is all of oneself and another encouraged, and spoken, and nothing hidden, as agenda to have love will HAVE TO DO, and with NO DEFINITIONS from each, and THEN if it please another, so be it, that two walk together, do together, play together, work together, have sex together, but if there be any thought of "showing love" or "giving love" or a "give to get" mentality of love, then unhappiness will surely prevail.....

is it not the want of one, wishing another treat in a particular way and defining, and accusing another of not loving, that make for the beginning of all misery in the world?

love has got to be total free will for two involved, total free words of ALL FEELINGS, and any defintion of good and bad will proclude this from EVER happening, and so manipulation will try to get, and this will indeed play upon the weakness of each human to be loved, and so will work and get results, but sooner and sooner, and quicker and quicker each time, the results NOT wished for will be recieved, one not seeing the laws of the universe set in place are causeing this, and one is bringing their own misery upon themself, and for the ones they touch, lol.......

many times in text the UNCLEAN state was this.......

then as time progresses, each thinks and see's there is less love in the world, and even later come to say hardly any love in the world, and no one loves me, and no one understands me, but this will always be had by one SEEKING AND GUIDED IN ALL THINGS BY THEIR OWN THIRST FOR LOVE........

if truth be what is wished for, and encouaged, within all around, as truth is all that one is at any second, and not a figment of one great truth in the sky, then love is had, as it is the "truth of all" that create love, but rather a following of "love" bring for hiding the truth of each one to another, and squelch love to nothing but a whisper after some time........

all are indeed "free" to do as they see fit, but indeed, if these things do perpetuate a "curse" if you will, brought upon oneself, of never finding, except what crumble into pieces, then there is GOOD REASON TO KILL THE DESIRE WITHIN, seeing it is a false way of obtaining what one is seeking, and WILL NOT WORK, and to STOP FEEDING such things, that make them grow bigger each day, make them to be erased, and peace is restored within ones heart which is seeing love as truth.........

the freedom from such laws of nature and human existence unfortunately have been hindered by a practice of religious rituals and observations, and indeed such teaching have even perpetuated these false notions of following love, when indeed it was the truth only that mattered, and so never having been described plainly, the woes that beset mankind, the monster of self love that eat oneself from the inside out, has grown to massive proportions, even effecting entire nations and countries, and continues to eat away at the fabric of mankind and civilization.................

indeed the deception it seems have led many to misery of lonliness and pain...........peace

of course......coming fedex next minute.....lol


This was almost as bad as me thinking you were dying......remember that one........

as you wish David,

The greatest thing.......... you'll ever learn.......................................... is just to love -------

better?

David, while I'm in agreement with what you wrote, I don't see this as being an appropreate response to Tribo's post.

There was nothing in Tribo's words that suggested any need or want to get love back.

He merely said that loving and being loved in retrun is the greatest thing.

That's not the same as 'expecting' to be loved in return.

It merely suggested that when you are loved in retrun it's great!

Can't argue with that.

thnx James, glad you understood the words -

by the way for those who don't know - those are the words from a song, one of my favorites called enchanted boy. not mine.

each and all speak all as opinions, as all words have no meaning of any sort except as heard by the hearer, and that is determnined each by what is most important to them......

if feelings are the most important thing to one, then so be it, and each live and prosper as they see fit......

words written are not based on any ones personal take on what "good feelings" may be, as will not this shape any words spoken, and cause it to be crafted to ahcieve an agenda?

if this be your meaning taken, then i respect that, and can easily see why these words could sound as such......

the words written are spoke only as an honest opinion of how these words are misleading in general, from every side and even songs heard, that proclaim the mistreatment of a wounded heart, and in many ways lead to some of the very things described in the original post.........

these words are not attached to "feelings" or to the heart of tribo........

his post has his meaning and purpose, and my post has my meaning and purpose......

can and should all meaning and purpose be the same and eqaul?

the two are NOT ATTACHED, and are each mutually independent

things within my post addressed things in a general sense, and from a non personal perspective.......

obviously these were words placed with heartfelt emotions behind them, and are responded to with the same, and these are NEVER my pleasure to hurt or offend..........

please forgive me for any insult applied from the words, and this intent was not in the mind when written........

however, if there were not some percieved possibility of truth in the words written, then there is no way any personal insult can be taken, as personal insult only come if one thinks they are implicated by words, and no thought of implication can be had, unless there is within the mind a possibility of such exiting within oneself, lol.......

such is the dilema of anything spoken that seek to only uncover more possibilities than thought of before..........

is this seen as a proclamtion of truth?

these are merely ramblings of an idiot more about the ideas of things that have hampered mankind in it's march toward peace, and are only one mans opinion, and spoken of in this context, from a world view, and tribo's words were only a catalyst, as his words I ALWAYS LOVE TO HEAR AND SHOW AS MUCH, and no words written have any attachment to any one person except they be taken unto themselves........peace

I am going to set up my easel tonight and paint. I will have the web cam on it then.

My problem is I do have a life, but I come here to escape it.

I have so many things I need to be doing and many things that are routine that keep me busy in between posts.

It is usually over 100 degrees every day here and its difficult to do anything outside. I just want to veg out in front of my air conditioner all day.

It got up to 110 degrees the other day, but usually it is over 100 every day. We have not had any rain for weeks, and last night it rained for one hour and when that rain hit the ground it turned to steam. It was 84 degrees at 10:00 at night.

But I will be painting tonight.

JB

That is one of my favorite songs.

I love it sung by Nat King Cole.

It is called "Nature Boy."

To love and be loved in return is a great thing to learn.

You have to learn to love and you have to learn how to accept love from others. Some people don't love themselves enough and when that is the case they don't know how to accept love from others. If you cannot accept love you usually cannot give love. The channel has to be open on both ends.

I was very young when I first heard this song sung by Nat King Cole. It gave me goose bumps at the end and I knew the truth in its simple message.

JB

Everyone needs and wants to be loved. But true love is given truly with no need to have it returned. But when one loves truly, one becomes a magnet of love and will always find love.

You also have to know how to love yourself and how to accept love from others without requiring them to love you. But when they do love you, accept it. Love yourself first so that you can accept love from others knowing that you deserve love. You don't have to be loved to give love, but if you give love, love will find you.

JB

I find this thread very funny. Because I have been saying the same thing all over the place, and I even have been lapidated for doing so.
Ofcourse, I don't deny the veracity and inspiration of Holy Scripture. However, I denounce the fundamentalistic interpretation of it which leads distortions like the one stated by James. The Bible is used to support bigotries such calling non-christians "Sons and daughters of the evil." Position which as a Catholic I won't ever support.
The faith is not just based upon the Bible, but also based upon the tradition which is preserved by the Church (yes, the same Chuch which has committed atrocities), the original Church founded by my Lord Jesus Christ.
I also agree that the Holy Spirit is the one who has to lead us to the correct interpretation of the Bible, such interpretation teaches us that we are all God's children, and therefore, we need to love each other regardless. All this is supported by the Catholic doctrine which I have been studying deeply later.
I know that a lot of people would say that the Catholic Church also preaches bigotry for its instances in abortion, same-sex marriages, etc., I have to say that the Church criticizes the actions, but not the individual who does the action. And if the Church has the position is in order to defend life and family which are basic for the human being.

TLW

Double Post

It’s a beautiful song… Nature Boy. I grew up hearing it as a Jazz tune. Lovely sentiment, Tribo.

So many songs and so many fairy tails have guided people into dreaminess. Dreaminess is a lovely feeling….

It's just that... a feeling. It comes and it goes, as all other feelings do.

When the "good" feeling passes, many become disenchanted... They begin to feel as though they've lost their charm (like being out of God's Good Graces)... It's almost like a child feeling as if he's forever lost the love of a parent. That's a feeling very few will tolerate. All attempts are then made to "redeem" one's self by filling the void with anything that will say: "You ARE Lovable!"

Lots of beautiful lyrics seem to promote magical thinking. I see this from several perspectives.

To love is to love... to do so without agenda... well, that's the slippery part.

my expierience also JB, - it was and is majical

SL:

Lots of beautiful lyrics seem to promote magical thinking. I see this from several perspectives.

To love is to love... to do so without agenda... well, that's the slippery part.


tribo:

well heres some of my thoughts that all here are welcome to tear apart if they like.


BOOK OF TRUTHS (c) 1996

7) no truth is truth if it cannot stand the test of time. 8) Never is someone so deceived, as when they’ve deceived themselves


17) You can only truly love some one if the love you have is totally unselfish. If so, you will not want to change anything about them. You will and do except them just the way they are. And if you are fortunate enough to find someone who feels the same way you do, you already have a marriage. There will be no need for paper contracts, rings or ceremony, no desire or need to “own that which can never be owned”. People, contrary to belief, are not pieces of property. People do not belong to each other. But when you love each other unselfishly you are going to do what ever it takes to remain happily together for it is this union that brings you such great joy and comfort to begin with. When you are that close, you are as one and no priest, rabbi, minister, judge or law can strengthen that bond by their official power to pronounce it or declare it to be so. True love does not exist because anyone has the power to declare it, “IT JUST IS”!!! And people who feel they half to have ceremony, rings, vows and paper contracts to be married in the eyes of God or human powers, have other hidden criteria and motifs in mind than just loving each other deeply and wanting to be together for the rest of their lives. Yet unselfish love will not hesitate to unite under mans laws, for it has no fear or concern of what the eternal outcome will be, it already knows.




go to it david or others. -

david - i've read some other religious teachings - the more you speak here the more i believe your - Kabbalaist, or Sufi - wisdom of the idiots literature comes to mind on the Sufi muslim thinking, not that they were idiots, but used statements like that in thier philosophy - am i correct on any of this? After all DavidBen is merely Ben - son of - David back words correct? so which if any is it Zohar/Book of the dead? or Sufi teachings - or both?

thnx for your impending answer - LOL -

if ones percieves that this poster does not like "love" as much as the next guy, that would be correct and incorrect, as none feel nor like the same in all ways of "love", so in this way correct, and the other can be deducted, lol........

it seems as ALL WISH TO LOVE, but how can one do to another, when EACH have a different notion of what love is.....

so many may seek to give love, and it is met with a proclamtion, that be not love, lol......

if love is even recognized, or defined, it is like a ghost that eludes is the point of the whole post, lol.......

if you love someone, set them free?

from what?

does it not have to be free of defintions?

to be free of defintions is not so easily done, lol......

there has to be a good logical reason for anything that is profitable, and if there is, then this create a desire......

not a law or cammandment, lol........

that was the only point, as each word of the wise man that spoke and said "the greatest thing one learns is to love and be loved was totally heard, but from a neutral perspective, lol.......

it seemed a misleading wise saying, and so should not proclaim itself as wise, lol.........semantics here indeed, but the essence is much greater, as to be decieving by leaving out the HOW is the greatest deception that befall mankind each day lol.......

everything on this green earth wish to love, but what can love if it does not know truley what love is.....

oh, even hear many would stop and say no way, as they see MANY that do not love, lol......and this be the very essence of the root of the the deception, lol........

what is love is the question that has to be answered, or what knowing is had, and to build something with emotions is no different than building a physical house........

one must know HOW, and to know HOW, does not one need to know what something is to CREATE IT?

all that is ever said is love, love, love, and it is actually perpetuating more NO "LOVE", lol........

is it a feeling?

is it a state of being?

is it kind words?

is it loving words?

is it knowing a truth?

just what the hell is love?

everybody talks about it, and worships it, and seeks it, and needs it, but what is it answered, seems to be the only thing that get back to the root of understanding emotions and the mind and heart of a human, lol........i only spoke and speak my ideas about it, lol.......

everybody has an idea of love, BUT IT IS DIFFERENT FOR EACH SO DEFINTIONS LEAD TO DEVISIVNESS......

no doubt all the good that could be listed are attributes of love, but then each thing listed must have a counterpart to exist, so how is just good love?

are just good words love, uplifting words love.....

are cuss words love.....they have to be included

are bad deeds love......they have to be included

ouch, this would pinch the very core of a beings anus, but that make make it not so......oh, is anus a non loving evil word too, lol........

awh.......now is when the seperation of all that ties and build religions and dogma's and teachings and professing's and dictators and lovers and, lol............

all must be love or no love exist.......all that happens is love? indeed it is the only conclusion that can be had by all things entered into the equasion, and certainally the only change in perception that could end wars and restore peace to mankind as a whole..........

this no doubt at first thought sounds like a recipe for chaos, as each life is BUILT ON A DEFINTION OF WHAT LOVE IS, and at first thought, sounds as something that would fly against all logic, and it does, lol.....

that is the problem, lol........

countries have been built more and more over time upon illusions of defintions of what love is.......

laws are and have been passed seeking more and more to define acceptable free speech, based on a notion of what good speech is, which good is seen as love, so then any that speak are SEEN by more each day as no loving beings, or as "evil", or as "satanic", which prommote more and more fighting.....

good defined has become love defined, and this create a never ending battle with no possible conclusion but a final fight over illusions, lol.........

are not in essence laws based more and more each day on a judges or courts perceptive of what love is?

this does not mean laws are not good, and very much needed, but the only law of a free society is to not violate anothers free will by some physical force........

seems that can be the only premise of freedom of a free people.....

each is already held accountable by a pier and neighbor and county and country, so if two have a disagreement, both are doing all for love, and is love, so then two must or be helped to find an agreeement of how the two can exist and both do all for love........

if one say what love is in the mind to themself, and live by this law, then will not each person met be seen thru this same guideline imposed for oneself, and each be unique, and free, and even a murderer that murder can love, as he loves to murder, but this is not to say he has not imposed force against another is as such has given up free physical will for a time, or forever if such be the case.........

indeed at first thought, that notion that all is love is a very hard pill to swallow, but if all and many speak of devisivness, and see it is present in interpretations of teachings and doctrine, then for this to be erased, love can have no defintion, or it keep present an illsuion within the mind......

love is all and all is love or else everything plummet into defintions, that throw the world into still more of the same since the beginning of time......

that was the only point......just ideas