I agree, knowledge does not hurt as much as ignorance (jmo)

The big deal is they are here illegally and then they refuse to learn to speak the language.
I dont see any special provisions being made for the millions who come here legally every year.
We do lead the world in LEGAL immigration tou know!

Why should they who are willing to become a citizen legally and learn English as well as the other 300 million Americans have to push a 1 to speak our language on the phone?
What makes them so special?

Fanta I thought you liked me

you speak so enthusiatically against illegal immigration (doesnt pertain to me nor mine)
what do you propose be done? Why assume it's only Latinos/latinas? there are a multitude of different cultures that come to the states illegally, what did the latinos/latinas do to you? speak for yourself not the masses please.

I can and have read The Constitution many times without a problem. The original is in the Smithsonian and it is no different than the millions of other copies in text books or available from many other sources.

It used to be required in schools in this country to memorize and write an essay on it.
Your post makes no sense.

Im voting for Obama and in no way took his comments on TV as meaning Americans must learn a second language.
I am saying if their was a need then Americans would and they would excel at it. Just as we excel at everything we attempt!

Still no biggie, who cares if they have to press one, unless it is some uneducated, ignorant soul that really has no other life except finding someone who they think is less than them and thinks they should be able to push them around.

The illegal issue is another bandstand for the racially impaired in our country to beat down another race of people and I will not go along with it at any level because I cannot back the racially bigoted prejudce people who still exist in this country.

So no biggie on the pressing one or two or three or whatever and I will not insist that English be the "legal" language here because it already is the prominent language here. There is no need to change the way it stands now.

This has nothing to do with you fran, nor specifically about Latinos. Its about language.
I mention the Illegals, because their refusal to learn the language even when its offered free to them at every community college here.
The Latinos just happen to be by far the largest illegal population in the country. Hands down!
I graduate HS 70 miles from Mexico, many of my Good Friends and a couple Girl Friends were Mexican America. So were their parents, grand parents, and great grand parents. They are all American citizens, not illegal, and they do not appreciate the ones who come here illegally either. This only became a problem in this country within the last 20 yrs, and it is killing American wages and jobs from coast to coast!

But this isnt about illegal immigration other than how it pertains to the sudden debate in this country concerning second languages.
No matter how hard people attempt to disguise it, that second language they mean is Spanish!

You speak so generically Fanta that's what scares me; some subjects you are full of facts others you generalize beyond belief (if your opinion, I apologize) but you state people refuse to learn a language - who told you this, how can you justify this remark, sounds truly biased to me (jmo)

I still think highly of you

The American people are not losing wages nor jobs - they chose to not work, complain, pass the buck, blame the world for their shortcomings, think they are due privileges just because.

Reality sinks in and then it's everyone else's job. (jmo) I have never been without employment because I will do whatever I find/think is necessary to survive, as do many, nothing special about that but survival. Where there is a will there is a way.

Thanks for sparring with me Fanta

Speaking any other language broadens a persons horizons so it is good regardless to it being Spanish or what it is. Maybe the mexican Americans should hold tighter to their language so they will be the one family of Americans who speaks two languages as it should be for all Americans If we were really politically correct here the native tongue of America is American Indian so if we are all to be politically correct we should be learning and speaking Native American tongue in the streets of this country since they are the natives of this country.

I want to say a couple things about illegal immigration..Its a crime..Plain and simple. If I commit a crime, I am punished plain and simple. One thing I have against the illegal Mexicans is when they protested in the streets. Last I knew Mexico was democracy and why not do what you can to change whats wrong there. So bash me all you want. I have not committed a crime and never will!!!

yet correct illegal immigration is a criminal act.

Generalization or assumptions of a group of people is discrimination. (jmo)

Do only the illegal Mexicans upset you or do the illegal Colombians, Haitians, Jamaica, South African (examples only) also bother you.

Exactly!

Don't apologize for me. I do speak from fact.
I see them refuse, when the bill was up in Congress last year my college had to hire teachers there were so many enrolling in the English as a second language courses. To have any chance of becoming a citizen it was a requirement in the bill.

As soon as the bill failed they all dropped out causing the college to release all the newly hired teachers.

The Illegals suddenly lost a will to learn English even though it was tax-dollar funded and free to them.
If they dont need to they dont want to its that simple.

Maybe you are insulated from that reality. If that's the case I apologize for you.


I am a lead-carpenter. You do know what that is right.
I had a crew, a damn good crew. They earned an average of $15 dollars an hour. They had families, mortgages, car payment, etc.
They barely made ends meet week to week but they managed.

Then my employer decided to lay everyone off but me, and hire an all illegal immigrant crew for me to work at $7 dollars a man per hour.
They couldnt speak English, didnt want to learn to speak English, and their work was no where near the quality of my old crew.

Oh, my old crew were offered their jobs back but at the same $7 an hour as the illegals. They could not afford that and why should they be asked to.

If you think that isnt taking the jobs of Americans then I'll apologize for you again!

I have a problem with any group that comes here illegally and abuses the so called system. On your post to fanta you question why just the LATIN/LATINOS.Well I gave you just one reason I have a problem with them. Anyone here illegally is a criminal, plain and simple. They are many people sitting in jail for alot less.

Im leaving this thread because draggoness is bringing her unjustified bigotry talk into the debate and I really dont want to hear it!

Well said!!!!!

Fanta, please re read my posts, nothing I ever wrote was personal nor have I nor would I apologize for you! Want to make this clear.

and you blame the illegals for this not the employer??? misplaced aggression is my opinion.

Again, let's keep it impersonal on these forums Fanta, never have I once disrespected you nor will I allow you to try and belittle me for not believing as you do!

agreed, illegal activities are illegal no way around that! agreed, but that was not the jist of the forum.

I questioned Fanta's comments on Latinos/Latinas because that's the only people he spoke of... no other reason.

They and them are often terms used when pointing the finger or when the user is unable to identify some group or person the speaker is afraid of.

When my relatives came the the United States most of them had little or no knowledge of the language. The spoke Gaelic, French, German and Swedish.

Was my Swedish grandmother happy and proud to become a US citizen? Yes, she was but she knew just enough English to get by and spoke Swedish in her home. I am fairly sure the Finlanders down the road might have pointed at the small group of Swedish houses suspicious of their neighbor who they didn't understand and said they or them too while making assumptions based purely in speculation. It's the nature of the human animal to be aware of who is around them.

When people are afraid differences seem especially threatening. While there are solid reasons that humans have developed this sort of thinking that can be traced back to early civilization we are not living in small tribes that rarely interact any more. How far from that we've really come I am not sure. Still we have an opportunity now to learn about our neighbors in relative safety.

Maybe if each of us took the time to meet and learn about each other there would be fewer they and them sort of raves and some constructive conversation that lead to mutually agreed upon solutions could be found.

Oh ****! Wait, we can't let that happen that might produce actual understand and lessen the tools we can use to keep people afraid and fighting. Surely you all know in your hearts that there is something to the politics of fear?

I am sorry Fanta, it was not directed at you personally it was a statement of fact. Racist are loving the hell out of the illegal situation utilizing it in political arenas to perpetrate their hatred.

One of the racists favorite things to bring up is the pressing of one for english on the phones.

Racists cannot just put their hatred out there in its straight ugly form they must mask it so that more people will buy into it.

English as the "legal" language was one of their causes. We are not an orginally english speaking country, we were a native American speaking country so we all need to learn Native tongues if we are to be correct by this standard. And then convert all people who come here to speak Native tongue as a requirement of this country being politically correct.

I just post my warning bells when I hear them because these racists who are active in our political and social systems are dangerous to this country and the fabric of this country.