if futurist are correct about the rapture,the coming(parousia) of christ at some point beyond now, what do we do with this verse?

Matt: 10:23 - "When YOU are persecuted in one place, flee to another. ""I tell "YOU" the truth"", "YOU" will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man (jesus) comes." (Mtt.10:23)


Answers please?

Somewhere in Israel, there are the ghosts of the disciples and they are still trying to find their way through all the cities I guess. They have been cursed to wander until Jesus comes back.

That is part of the prophecy i was talking about the man of sin and the temple.Shalom..Miles

you want it in English or in the older language?

finish going through?

how about going through the complete, or finished cities of Isra-el?

teleo as 'over' or finish' comes from a root word telos. (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a goal.


Now, 'teleo' means to end, i.e. complete, execute, concluded, discharge (a debt) : -accomplish, make an end,....etc.


Not to split hairs, but this word is used only once in scripture; and there are several other words used in the New testament for "over" or "finished" as you version translates. I use the KJV, only because it is a truer transliteration of the old languages, not because it feels holier.

The translators were not in the business of commentary, per se. Just transliterating it as best they could.

So to pin a preterist notion on it by decrying the inefficable value of this statement by Jesus as possibly being futurist, is debateable.

It is the preterist notion that cannot conclude it as otherwise.

With that in mind, I offer this to chew on which might help with the meaning of the "end time" Isra-el

Romans 11:25.

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;

that blindness in part is happened to Isra-el,
until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."


Now then, tribo, in light of that conclusory statement by the one, Paul, whom your errant heretics wish to brand a preterist, let's look at the best context for understanding that which has eluded translation and become of private interpretation by your malevofactors.


Romans 11:23-24. ( Paul is speaking of Isra-el as the natural branches here, and has been in this letter to the Church of Jesus Christ at Rome)


" And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in : for God is able to graff them in again.

For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree :
how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?"



In the end, tribo, that will be the case for Isra-el.

Perhaps that is why your preterist adulterers are called haters.

Haters of the natural branches of the GOOD OLIVE TREE.

you think on motives, tribo.


think hard on them.

and try not to be so hard on those that seek to sincerely divide the intent of the words in love with wisdom.

None of us were there, 2000 years ago.

But as Paul said in Romans 11:25, "For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of THIS MYSTERY....."



with your heart.


learn, grow, and then be at peace.

WOULDEE:

With that in mind, I offer this to chew on which might help with the meaning of the "end time" Isra-el

Romans 11:25.

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;

that blindness in part is happened to Isra-el,
until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."

TRIBO:

i see no confusion on this at all since the end time for all "the fullness of the gentiles" was in the know time and areas paul says were the entire nations and world know to paul and the others then, and was going to take place by and in AD 70. You on the other hand insist in putting it as a future event that has not taken place yet, it fits the entire scenario much better to put it in the time spoken of by both jesus and the apostles for better understanding. its 2 am here i will respond to the rest tomorrow,

nite W

Bible Question: In an ongoing benign dialogue with a preterist friend, I (a futurist/millennialist) have been challenged by Jesus' words in Matt. 10:23 where He tells His disciples that they will not have gone through the cities of Israel until "the Son of man be come." The friend insists it means He has already come, the promised kingdom is already operative, and that all prophecy pertaining to "the end" has been fulfilled, its consummation corresponding with the desolation of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Bible Answer: Before we come to Matthew 10:23, let us look at Hebrews 10. The book of Hebrews calls us to trust God even to the point of enduring suffering for Him. It calls us to believe that God speaks truth (including that Jesus died and returned to life) to the point that we are willing to endure suffering for Him. Hebrews 10 shows that Jesus died for our sins once for all. This means that when God saves us, we are saved forever. Then at the end of chapter 10, we read the following:

For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised. FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. (NASB) Hebrews 10:36-38

Very, Very, Little While. The Holy Spirit simply tells the readers of the book of Hebrews that Jesus will be coming in a "very little while." This is a great statement because the Greek literally means a "very, very little" while. He does not mean that Jesus is coming tomorrow, next month, next year, or in ten years. The writer of Hebrews quotes a passage from Habakkuk 2:3-4. This is a quote from the Old Testament. Habakkuk was written about 605 B.C. When Hebrews was written, it had been at least 600 years since Jesus' coming was promised. Habakkuk referred to Jesus' coming as the "appointed time." Here in Hebrews, the Holy Spirit explains that the appointed time refers to Jesus' return. It is fascinating to discover that God has a different understanding of the words "very, very, little" while. In this case it is at least six hundred years! This is important in understanding prophetic predictions throughout scripture.
Many struggle with statements such as the following:

Let your forbearing spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near. (NASB) Philippians 4:5

You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not complain, brethren, against one another, that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door. (NASB) James 5:8-9

The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. (NASB) 1 Peter 4:7

It is important to remember that the apostle Peter wrote the passage above in 1 Peter 4:7 and that he also wrote the following passage when people did not understand how God measures time.

But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. (NASB) 2 Peter 3:8-10

Jesus' coming is not to late. That was Peter's point. Notice that when Jesus comes heaven and earth will be destroyed.

God's Word Speaks to , and is FOR ,and APPLIES , to EVERY Generation.



God's Word ....

the Same...

Yesterday ....Today.... and Forever.

One Needs the Holy Spirit to Rightly Divide the Word of God.

One Also Needs to Study and Apply the WHOLE Word of God.... not just PARTS...in order to fully understand what God is Saying in His Word..

Tribo..... you are not even a Christian.

And Because you are not born again, you don't have the full understanding of what God is saying in His Word...and therefore, you are in no position to be preaching about something you do NOT even understand.

Capeche????

Cause God won't even give you that understanding , Tribo , unless you are born again.

tribo,

it went right over your head again and it was as plain as day.

Isra-el was not graffed back in after whatever it is you think happened in 70AD.

Isra-el has yet to be graffed back in.

The "time of Jacob's trouble" has not been fulfilled yet.

Isra-el stands to disagree with you.

The Church of Jesus Christ still stands in the way; in the gap, if you will, not making any distinction between Jew or otherwise.

The Church is inclusive of all mankind by free will and choice.

It will not be so, when Isra-el is graffed back in.

There is the next age to come.

But before it is come, the "seventieth week" of Daniel must manifest.

There is a seven year period known as Jacob's trouble.

The Church of Jesus Christ calls this the Tribulation.

The age to follow will be more to preterist liking.

It is called the "Mellineal Reign of Jesus Christ".

That is the age in which all will know God, from the least to the greatest, but it will not be a covenant of grace.

It will be sovereignly imposed upon mankind by God.



enjoy your selfish liberties and secret tastes while you can. The conviction of those days will remind you of us, the Church!!!!







Pray not for it.



trust me.

the scriptures call for a bite of the devil at the end of that age to further test the hearts of those dwelling in an age where the love of God and His will are concretely manifest upon all flesh remaining alive after that seventieth week of Daniel.

1000 years without death is prescribed for that generation, but at the end, the devil will be loosed on the whole planet to test it.

That is another can of worms.

Few discuss that one.

But it is scriptural, and preterists ignore it.

Well, if it was me, I would close the book and go outside to hang up my laundry!

I have been persecuted (or is that prosecuted) in loads of different countries, and yet I keep on running.

Im sure eventually one of the 168 recognised countries or territories will let me stay

take these lies back to hell where they came from women, as you heed not your own scriptures that you follow to gain merit and power, as it was written that a women shall not unserp her authority over a man, and is to learn silence, and is not to interpret scriptures, and these you take unto yourself, and so are damned by them just the same, and judgment shall come to you quickly, less you repent and heed the words your own heart has ignored.....

... and you two purport to be christians?

Then you have the audacity and the affrontery to question me as an atheist!!

and David, for crying out loud speak properly.
Your bullsh1t is difficult enough as it is!

belushi......my dear friend, do you purport all things to be bull**** you do not understand............it is good you have rejected half-truths, but indeed none of these words written shall be found not to come to pass.......peace

For a start what the hell are you talking about.

Make it simple enough that someone who speaks plain English can understand

belushi.....if understanding of the things written is not had, then it is better, as they are not things written unto you.....

whatever things you wish to speak about concerning your own understanding, make them known, and we shall speak of them....

what things do you wish to know.....peace

Are you that bad or are they that terrible ?
.

Preterists would have be believe that Jesus was the "Son of Man" after his return in 70 AD, but the scriptures clearly call Jesus the "Son of Man" during his lifetime. The apostles had been to every city in Israel and moved further out into Roman and Asia by 70 AD, so Matthew 10:23 couldn't possibly have been a prophecy, because it was inaccurate. Jesus' kingdom is spiritual in nature and is within people. The foundation of the church was when Jesus entered his kingdom (or in other words when Jesus started his reign). We can quibble about when exactly Jesus entered his kingdom, but it could have been no later than Pentecost.

Your posts are often written in a manner that makes them difficult to read. Your profile says you are living in America so unless English is a second language to you then you are intentionally written in this confused, semi-archaic manner. If your posts were written using conventional English grammar, people wouldn't have such a hard time understanding the points you are trying to make.