Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: Why the cross?
feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Tue 05/06/08 01:54 PM Edited by feralcatlady on Tue 05/06/08 01:59 PM
ok you have the people that want to live as they wish, believe as they wish, and basically just not be accountable to anyone.....because then in their minds they are pure as the white driven snow... Then you have the bad nasty Christians....Who "Try" and live as Christ would want them to. You can bash us, call our Christ a myth, or Bible a myth and the Father God as not the creator but as a no one.....Go for it all of you......believe as you wish.....live as you wish........The mountians are god to you....the flowers are god to you....heck you are god to you. You can take books that are written to dispel it all....you can take the writing of a Steve Allen or anyone.....whom by the way I can take every part of that book and break it down to why it's crap.......but hey you want to believe it your choice.... But I say to all you will reap what you sow......remember that and live your life as you see fit....and just for clarification it would be amazing if all the bashers could give the Christians the same respect.....will it ever ever happen....not likly.......but hey were a strong brood....and that means no one will ever have the wisdom, nor the strength to change our minds, our hearts nor our souls and our love of Christ. I also say........take religion out of it........and look at it for what it truly is.....it's a relationship with God the Father, His Son, and his Word (the bible) thats it......can't fight me on this ever ever ever....cant change my mind ever ever ever....For I have seen.......and that my friends is all the proof I will ever need.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 05/06/08 03:33 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Tue 05/06/08 03:36 PM
ok you have the people that want to live as they wish, believe as they wish, and basically just not be accountable to anyone.....because then in their minds they are pure as the white driven snow... So you are essentially saying that we should not be allowed to decide how we live, what we do, or what we believe and that we should look to some outside authority to tell us all of these things. Oh and we should regard ourselves as unworthy evil sinners. Well that seems to eliminate free will, free thought, and self esteem. Then you have the bad nasty Christians....Who "Try" and live as Christ would want them to. You can bash us, call our Christ a myth, or Bible a myth and the Father God as not the creator but as a no one.....Go for it all of you......believe as you wish.....live as you wish........The mountians are god to you....the flowers are god to you....heck you are god to you. We are all a part of the one deity, yes. We are all connected to each other and to all creation. You can take books that are written to dispel it all.... All information has some value and should be considered, much information conflicts with other information. But to only consider a part of that is to cut yourself off from knowledge. you can take the writing of a Steve Allen or anyone.....whom by the way I can take every part of that book and break it down to why it's crap.......but hey you want to believe it your choice.... History is History. But if you want to discuss the book, we can start a thread on it and you can break it down piece by piece and enlighten me on why it is crap. Do your have your copy yet? But I say to all you will reap what you sow......remember that and live your life as you see fit....and just for clarification it would be amazing if all the bashers could give the Christians the same respect.....will it ever ever happen....not likly.......but hey were a strong brood....and that means no one will ever have the wisdom, nor the strength to change our minds, our hearts nor our souls and our love of Christ. I don't know why you insist on calling people "bashers" just because they disagree with your religion which you insist is the only way to salvation. We disagree with you, that's all. We are willing to discuss why. If you can show me where I am wrong, I will listen. I also say........take religion out of it........and look at it for what it truly is.....it's a relationship with God the Father, His Son, and his Word (the bible) thats it......can't fight me on this ever ever ever....cant change my mind ever ever ever....For I have seen.......and that my friends is all the proof I will ever need. How, pray tell, Feralcatlady, can I or you TAKE RELIGION OUT OF IT? I already have a "relationship with God." I don't need any religion for that. I don't need the Bible or the Dogma or the Church. I already have a relationship with God. Now if you want to discus the book in detail I am willing. It is not about God. It is about religion in general and its history and flaws. Not only the Christian religion, but Islam too. They both have suppressed true enlightenment. They both have been used for war and conquest. They all have been infiltrated with "evil." JB

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Tue 05/06/08 04:45 PM
ok you have the people that want to live as they wish, believe as they wish, and basically just not be accountable to anyone.....because then in their minds they are pure as the white driven snow... So you are essentially saying that we should not be allowed to decide how we live, what we do, or what we believe and that we should look to some outside authority to tell us all of these things. Oh and we should regard ourselves as unworthy evil sinners. Well that seems to eliminate free will, free thought, and self esteem. ANSWER: Well I would say that is a lil silly.....I make decision every day of my life....I run 3 corporations so of course I make decisions.....but at the height of them all...and with every question I have....What would Jesus Do? Is first and foremost in my mind. I did say you can do as you wish.....live as you wish and be accountable to no one....did I not. And not my place to call you unworthy evil anything. Your free will is the choice you make.....for example if a guy is flirting with me....It's my choice to flirt or say no....which is what I choose to do. Now you can practice witchcraft....that is your choice......and you and I both have to live with the choices we make....right!!! Then you have the bad nasty Christians....Who "Try" and live as Christ would want them to. You can bash us, call our Christ a myth, or Bible a myth and the Father God as not the creator but as a no one.....Go for it all of you......believe as you wish.....live as you wish........The mountains are god to you....the flowers are god to you....heck you are god to you. We are all a part of the one deity, yes. We are all connected to each other and to all creation. ANSWER: Yes we are....but if your a practicing witch you do not believe in the same deity as I do......You could not......because if you are dealing with withcraft....It goes against my God....But if you want to ok. I am connected to all creation in the effect of taking care of it as God intended....but as for putting in in any other light....for me no. You can take books that are written to dispel it all.... All information has some value and should be considered, much information conflicts with other information. But to only consider a part of that is to cut yourself off from knowledge. Answer: Oh I did....and I do.....and I laugh and thats that....but just for me....if you want to buy into it...of course you can. you can take the writing of a Steve Allen or anyone.....whom by the way I can take every part of that book and break it down to why it's crap.......but hey you want to believe it your choice.... History is History. But if you want to discuss the book, we can start a thread on it and you can break it down piece by piece and enlighten me on why it is crap. Do your have your copy yet? ANSWER: I have read the book....and no don't have a copy but I would be happy to go piece by piece with you JB....It woulld be an honor. But I say to all you will reap what you sow......remember that and live your life as you see fit....and just for clarification it would be amazing if all the bashers could give the Christians the same respect.....will it ever ever happen....not likly.......but hey were a strong brood....and that means no one will ever have the wisdom, nor the strength to change our minds, our hearts nor our souls and our love of Christ. I don't know why you insist on calling people "bashers" just because they disagree with your religion which you insist is the only way to salvation. We disagree with you, that's all. We are willing to discuss why. If you can show me where I am wrong, I will listen. ANSWER: Take not JB of all the above....I give you the right to believe as you wish....I don't call you believing that aliens are going to come in the form of the anitichrist....its you belief......I just wish the same respect...and trust me love calling Christ a myth is totally disrespecting to me. Not that you have...just an example. I also say........take religion out of it........and look at it for what it truly is.....it's a relationship with God the Father, His Son, and his Word (the bible) thats it......can't fight me on this ever ever ever....cant change my mind ever ever ever....For I have seen.......and that my friends is all the proof I will ever need. How, pray tell, Feralcatlady, can I or you TAKE RELIGION OUT OF IT? ANSWER: I never have called what my relationship is with the Lord & Savior a religion.....It's a relationship.....just as I would say we have a colorful relationship...but you and I are not a religion....My religion is for fellowship with others, at least for me....thats it. I already have a "relationship with God." I don't need any religion for that. I don't need the Bible or the Dogma or the Church. I already have a relationship with God. ANSWER: How can you have a relationship with God and be a practicing witch? Now if you want to discus the book in detail I am willing. It is not about God. It is about religion in general and its history and flaws. Not only the Christian religion, but Islam too. They both have suppressed true enlightenment. They both have been used for war and conquest. They all have been infiltrated with "evil." ANSWER: Anytime JB

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 05/06/08 05:09 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Tue 05/06/08 05:10 PM
ANSWER: Yes we are....but if your a practicing witch you do not believe in the same deity as I do......You could not......because if you are dealing with withcraft....It goes against my God....But if you want to ok. I am connected to all creation in the effect of taking care of it as God intended....but as for putting in in any other light....for me no. Let me make this perfectly clear. I am not "dealing with witchcraft" nor am I a "practicing witch." I don't even know what you think a witch is. I have been called a witch but that does not make me a witch. I joke about that label because I don't take it seriously. Because I believe the way I do, some misguided Christians seem to think I am a practicing witch. I am not. (I don't even know what that is.) How can you have a relationship with God and be a practicing witch? I will say again, I am not a practicing witch. That is too funny. Even if I were a "practicing witch" my relationship is with GOD. Christians do not own God. I don't know rather to be insulted or to laugh my a$$ off. JB

Lordling Joined Mon 12/31/07 Posts: 536	Tue 05/06/08 06:08 PM
It's not surprising that it's confusing to you. Join the club. This was one of the principal arguments during the 325AD Council of Nicaea, and the first major doctrinal conflict of the new church. In the end, not everyone agreed, but the concept was forced through (amid violent coercion), and became part of the definition of Christian orthodoxy. There remain denominations that refute the Trinity or Jesus' divinity, and/or embrace different perceptions, including the Arianists, Adoptionists, Binarists, Modalists, Unitarianists, etc., etc.. There are many informative articles written on this subject on the web, as well as literary works in print. The Council of Nicea addressed the Arius heresy, which claimed that Jesus was a "created" God. Arius didn't deny that Jesus was God, but he believed that Jesus was a God created by God. The notes taken during the council are freely available online and can be purchased in most bookstores. It's important to note that only 2 people voted with Arius, the other 250 to 318 attendees agreed that Jesus is God. Nobody present at Nicea thought that Jesus wasn't a god and only two thought that Jesus was a created god, rather than the God of Abraham. Seriously..."The Davinci Code" isn't accurate history. If you want further proof, look at John 1. That chapter clearly states that Jesus is God. John 1 existed and was widely available hundreds of years before Nicea. If you read the Gospels, you will have many different affirmations of Jesus' Godhood. The fact that this silly lie about Nicea is so widely believed is absolute proof that those who hate the church will believe any lie that attacks it's foundations. It's really sad. You seem to pride yourself on your intelligence, you should take equal amount of pride in being right and actually research this stuff on credible sources. The veracity of a statement or claim cannot be based on itself. This is a fundamental violation of logic & reason. I did not reference The DaVinci Code, nor did I consult it (being a fictional work) for factual information to support my observation. Practically all surviving writings on the subject of Arianism were penned by the opponents of the doctrine (Constantine having ordered all other writings supporting the subject to be burned). Arianism was no small isolated issue; it has often been said that it shook the foundations of the Christian world. It had widespread support, and took several decades (and much effort) to finally "stamp out". There were three bishops and one deacon who supported Arianism, and two more bishops who refused to condemn him. It's also not so surprising that most of the bishops signed the Creed, having been promised exile (the predecessor of excommunication) aforehand if they did not. The two bishops that did sign the Creed, yet refused to condemn Arius, were exiled along with his supporters. Eventually, all were invited back to the fold, but Arius died mysteriously on the return to Constantinople. Amusingly, after Constantine's death, his son Constantius flipped it all over and declared Arianism as doctrinal for the Eastern empire. Thank you, though, for your condescending and petulant response. In the future, please try to address the topic at hand, and refrain from personal observations regarding the character of other participants in the thread. I urge you, in return, to research this subject via all available sources, that is, if you wish to discover the real truth about your traditional beliefs.

Britty Joined Sat 09/08/07 Posts: 3480	Tue 05/06/08 06:30 PM
me too Yes, indeed.

wouldee Joined Sun 10/07/07 Posts: 5335	Tue 05/06/08 06:55 PM Edited by wouldee on Tue 05/06/08 06:57 PM
It's not surprising that it's confusing to you. Join the club. This was one of the principal arguments during the 325AD Council of Nicaea, and the first major doctrinal conflict of the new church. In the end, not everyone agreed, but the concept was forced through (amid violent coercion), and became part of the definition of Christian orthodoxy. There remain denominations that refute the Trinity or Jesus' divinity, and/or embrace different perceptions, including the Arianists, Adoptionists, Binarists, Modalists, Unitarianists, etc., etc.. There are many informative articles written on this subject on the web, as well as literary works in print. The Council of Nicea addressed the Arius heresy, which claimed that Jesus was a "created" God. Arius didn't deny that Jesus was God, but he believed that Jesus was a God created by God. The notes taken during the council are freely available online and can be purchased in most bookstores. It's important to note that only 2 people voted with Arius, the other 250 to 318 attendees agreed that Jesus is God. Nobody present at Nicea thought that Jesus wasn't a god and only two thought that Jesus was a created god, rather than the God of Abraham. Seriously..."The Davinci Code" isn't accurate history. If you want further proof, look at John 1. That chapter clearly states that Jesus is God. John 1 existed and was widely available hundreds of years before Nicea. If you read the Gospels, you will have many different affirmations of Jesus' Godhood. The fact that this silly lie about Nicea is so widely believed is absolute proof that those who hate the church will believe any lie that attacks it's foundations. It's really sad. You seem to pride yourself on your intelligence, you should take equal amount of pride in being right and actually research this stuff on credible sources. The veracity of a statement or claim cannot be based on itself. This is a fundamental violation of logic & reason. I did not reference The DaVinci Code, nor did I consult it (being a fictional work) for factual information to support my observation. Practically all surviving writings on the subject of Arianism were penned by the opponents of the doctrine (Constantine having ordered all other writings supporting the subject to be burned). Arianism was no small isolated issue; it has often been said that it shook the foundations of the Christian world. It had widespread support, and took several decades (and much effort) to finally "stamp out". There were three bishops and one deacon who supported Arianism, and two more bishops who refused to condemn him. It's also not so surprising that most of the bishops signed the Creed, having been promised exile (the predecessor of excommunication) aforehand if they did not. The two bishops that did sign the Creed, yet refused to condemn Arius, were exiled along with his supporters. Eventually, all were invited back to the fold, but Arius died mysteriously on the return to Constantinople. Amusingly, after Constantine's death, his son Constantius flipped it all over and declared Arianism as doctrinal for the Eastern empire. Thank you, though, for your condescending and petulant response. In the future, please try to address the topic at hand, and refrain from personal observations regarding the character of other participants in the thread. I urge you, in return, to research this subject via all available sources, that is, if you wish to discover the real truth about your traditional beliefs. yes, much evil has been perpetrated, historically, by deviant interpretations of Christianity. Arianism was morphed into Aryanism by Adolph Hitler. I believe my recollection to be that he learned of this doctrine when fellowshipping with the Thule. He later, threw Martin Luther's attack of the Jews, despicably, into the faces of the Lutherans to silence their displeasure with his own doctrinal slants which they protested. he then stylized the cross and reversed the swastika which is also a reverenced symbol to the American Indians. to further add confusion to hs deliberations, he declared that his reign was The Third Reich, and claimed headship of the Roman Empire in so doing. His agenda was very diificult to grasp in any timely fashion. The rest, we know. His horrific destruction is still felt in the world and the pain of his reign of terror still hurts mankind. Even the Gestapo is the source of the KGB and the CIA which were both started with the intelligence and direction of the members of that secret intelligence arm of Hitlker's war machine. His influence is still a very real threat. The threat of such malignity would seem hard if not impossible to repeat today, But I am not confident that such marginalized and licentious misdeeds could not happen again. Such evil is never absent mankind. We mmust always remain vigilant that we do not create another environment for such a monster to persuade nations to follow such machinations and deceit. That is a scary thought. I , for one , wish never to see anything remotely surface ever again . Not among nations, and not among the believers in God, worldwide. Definitely not from the Christian community either, however malevolent, it is deceit that allows such things to surface. Collectively, we all bear the responsibility to be on guard for such travesties and miscarriages of justice and good will. We must all be transparent and ever vigilant. Especially in light of the internet's potential and capacity for instant desemination of information on such a global level. The saturation of the internet world wide as a means of communication is the one most vulnerable enviornment for the spawning of such terror and mayhem and evil. The internet is not evil, but men use any means available to acquire advantage and privelege over others for personal gain and profit and that is just a fact of nature called man. Remebering the past and learning from it will insulate us from ignorantly repeating past lessons not learned. History does have a peculiar tendency to repeat itself over and over again in man's quest for domination and control. learn, grow and be at peace.

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Tue 05/06/08 07:08 PM
The plan that Hitler used is alive and well in this countries govt. now. The people relish it like a bowl of ice cream yet they have not understood what Hitlers plan was so that ice cream is melting as we speak believing our liberities are not being taken away in the name of the state.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 05/06/08 07:25 PM
The plan that Hitler used is alive and well in this countries govt. now. The people relish it like a bowl of ice cream yet they have not understood what Hitlers plan was so that ice cream is melting as we speak believing our liberities are not being taken away in the name of the state. This seems to be the case. Perhaps "the Hitler experiment" was just a dry run for what will happen in this country. JB

wouldee Joined Sun 10/07/07 Posts: 5335	Tue 05/06/08 07:26 PM
I am glad that someone else is awake too

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Wed 05/07/08 07:02 AM
The veracity of a statement or claim cannot be based on itself. This is a fundamental violation of logic & reason. I did not reference The DaVinci Code, nor did I consult it (being a fictional work) for factual information to support my observation. No, what I said is based upon the historical record. What you are saying is based upon crackpot theorys. The factual information supports only the view of Nicea that I posted, if you have other information, I believe that Historians around the world would be please to have you share said information. Practically all surviving writings on the subject of Arianism were penned by the opponents of the doctrine (Constantine having ordered all other writings supporting the subject to be burned). That's true of most events in history, but you can't reject the historical record and make up a story that makes you feel better about history. Well, I guess you can (and have) done that, but that doesn't make it right. Arianism was no small isolated issue; it has often been said that it shook the foundations of the Christian world. It had widespread support, and took several decades (and much effort) to finally "stamp out". It took several centurys, but the support was always small and isolated. The majority of Christians accepted trinitarianism from the begining. There were three bishops and one deacon who supported Arianism, and two more bishops who refused to condemn him. It's also not so surprising that most of the bishops signed the Creed, having been promised exile (the predecessor of excommunication) aforehand if they did not. The two bishops that did sign the Creed, yet refused to condemn Arius, were exiled along with his supporters. Eventually, all were invited back to the fold, but Arius died mysteriously on the return to Constantinople. Amusingly, after Constantine's death, his son Constantius flipped it all over and declared Arianism as doctrinal for the Eastern empire. Wow, your history is all screwed up. Arius and two bishops were the only ones at Nicea who supported Arianism. They were exiled. Where are you getting all these extra people? How do you know they were threatened with exile? That's not recorded...it was the eventual punishment of the three who supported Arianism, but there is no proof that they were threatened with exile if they didn't sign the Nicean creed. Thank you, though, for your condescending and petulant response. In the future, please try to address the topic at hand, and refrain from personal observations regarding the character of other participants in the thread. Thank you, but I'll post how I please. How can you give me advice to not make personal observations, when you choose to lie about the tenor of my post? Sorry, but anyone who makes up history and uses crackpot theorys to support his beliefs has no advice I would be interested in taking. I urge you, in return, to research this subject via all available sources, that is, if you wish to discover the real truth about your traditional beliefs. All available sources? Even the crackpots who make up history and pretend to find evidence for conspiracies? The sources of the "Davinci Code", which as you pointed out is a work of fiction? You mean those kinds of sources? No thank you, I will stick to scholarly sources.