It comes down to how much control should another have over anothers body? The baby is not a baby until it can live on it's own outside the mothers body. If born in the first trimester it will die so it is not a separate entity at that point. If you don't believe in abortion then DON'T HAVE ONE but stop being the moral control of others. One should not try to control others bodies period, that means abortion, gay marriage, polygamy, etc.... People live different lives and that should always be respected.

Symbelmyne, you are MY hero for today.

A fetus is not a baby until it actually comes into this world and can survive on its own. It is not our place to tell people what they can or can't do with their bodies and it upsets me that the government tries in so many ways. This country is just becoming far too controlling. I am looking for the day our president signs the Big Brother Act and people are jailed forever for just having an original thought.

You don't agree with abortion? Good for you, don't get one. Don't tell other people that they don't have a choice just because you don't like it.

Disclaimer: I don't like the idea of abortion either. I would rather see the child go up for adoption but I don't judge the people that would rather have one. That is their choice and it is not my place to tell them they can't do that.

Dragoness. You said it perfectly. you beat me to it by like 30 seconds! lol

Rathil: "Disclaimer: I don't like the idea of abortion either."

Why not?

If you tried looking "baby" up in the dictionary, do you think it might say something about babies in there?

I agree it is the woman's choice, but if you go here maybe you'll understand why I dont think abortion is a good idea!

http://thirdworldorphans.org/gpage.html34.html

Imagine if these people's parents had been able to have an abortion. What would the world be without their contribution!

If they close down all the abortion clinic then women are just going to go to back alley butchers. It's been that way for thousands of years. Give them a place were they won't die from some infection or straight bleed out because some butcher batched it. Women are going to get abortions no matter what. Give them a place where they don't die doing it.

It's their body. It's their live. It's their decision. They have to live with it.

i can understand LIJOMA because my 17 yr old son is a product of me passing out and my bf letting his friend rape me. i looked at every option out there but chose to keep him. he is my world, but it was my choice

until someone here is raped or molested and gets pregnant from it...you don't know what you would do. i was very anti abortion before this. now i understand

unless someone knows the entire situation...then don't judge. i think it's irresponsible to use it just as birth control but that is my opinion. I think there should be therapy before and after if someone decides to have one though.

i had an abortion not too long after my (due to medical reasons). I know what it's like to go through one. i know the pain physically and emotionally

I am sorry kitten but if I was the fatehr, I would fight you tooth and nail as I DO have the right in having a say in what happens to MY son or daughter just as much as you would.

Keep in mind children (no matter what age or stage) are not items or possessions, they are human beings, and thus no one OWNS them, thus NO ONE has a say in life or death over them. Also, most states now agree, that in the case of parental rights and child support, etc. that both the mother and the father are responsible and have hte same rights (unless one proves they should not have them). If they have the same rights, then they have the same right to decide what happens to an unborn child.

As I have said in other threads about this topic, if you do not want a child (man OR woman, doesnt matter) then dont have sex. It is that simple.
And int he case of rape, I am sorry but the child (and in my mind a fetus is still a child) still has the same rights as a 1 year old does. In other words, abortion would be murder.

Hear , Hear. That is the truth.

And what about your right to having a child? Should a woman have the right to telly ou that she does not giv e a damn about what you want or dont want? Should the woman have the right to telly ou that you can not have your baby? N o she doe snot have that right!!!

that is easy for you to say because you can't get pregnant. it's easy for some men to let the woman go through it all alone and struggle to raise their kid (it doesn't always happen tha way). so don't think you know what's going on in the woman's mind

as far is rape or incest goes...when you get brutally raped and become pregnant...then get back to me

I never said life is fair. I never said all men were proper men who lived up to their responsibilities. Not all women live up to their responsibilities erither.
What I said is that a woman should not have the right to tell a man he can not be a father simply because she does not want to be pregnant. On the reverse, a man shoudl not be able to just up and dissapear when he finds out his girlfriend is pregnant. Both parties decided to have sex, knowing pregnancy is a possibility of such action, BOTH persons have the RIGHTand the responsibility to raise their child unless there is evidence that they are unfit (as in the case of rape).

Once again it boils down to one simple statement. Pregnancy is the natural result of having sexual relations. If you do not want the responsibility (or right) of being a parent, then do not have sex, no matter who you are, male or female.

The human race is the supreme being on this planet. We are considered to be the highest evolved and most intelligent. Thus we are all capable of saying "No, I do not want children, so I will not have sex". It is a basis of morality and honesty. And if you want to have sexual relations even though you do not want to be a parent, then you should not try and deny the other parent their right to have a child if they choose to. And if you both don't want to have children then by todays laws go ahead and have an abortion. I still do not agree with it as I consider it murder, but it is legal today. However, do not deny the other person their right to be a parent.

you said:
And int he case of rape, I am sorry but the child (and in my mind a fetus is still a child) still has the same rights as a 1 year old does. In other words, abortion would be murder.

when you are in this situation...get back to me. why should the dad have rights in this case???? more than likely he will be in prison anyway. do you realize what a woman goes through after rape and throw being pregnant into it?

like I have said before....i think there should be therapy before and after for any abortions. you don't know the situation of the girl. if it's a loving dad involved that wants the child...i don't see why not have it and give it to the dad...that i agree with

but if you don't know all the factors then how can you say? I don't agree with soemone that uses it as birth control either. they need to take responsibility. but in rape and incest....the girl had no choices either and unless you are in the situation...you don't know what it's like.

i have said before...my son is a product of a date rape...but i kept him after weighing the pro's and con's of everything....to me that was the right choice at the time and he is my world now.
but I have had an abortion after due to medical reasons so I know what it's like on the other side. but I didn't have a lot of choices in it. the child won't have survived outside (due to medical reasons) and the birth of my son before put a toll on my body...it could have killed me as well. the father wanted nothing to do with it either anyway...he dropped me off...waited in the truck and drove me home...let me out of the car and i never heard from him again....and it's not because he was against it....he didn't want it anyway. if i could have i would have kept it.

I agree with you so far as if it can be proven the child would not live outside the womb. If it can be shown the child would not survive (and I am sure that was the case for you, I am not saying otherwise), then by all means an abortino should be available.

I also agree with you that in the case of rape (no matter what kind of rape), the would-be father would not have any say or rights except those read to him by the police officer arresting him.

However, I am of the opinion that a fetus is a human being just as much as a one year old is, or a fifty seven year old is, and thus aborting the child because you were raped is still wrong in my eyes. No it is not fair that you had to suffer through the rape; nor was it fair for you to have to become pregnant due to it. However, it would not be fair to the child to have it's life ended either. Two wrongs never make a right.

And don't get me wrong, I know I will never personally understand what it is like to be pregnant, let alone pregnant due to rape, however I personally can not agree with what I would consider murder.

I'm going to use a quote from Ted Turner. He was being interviewed by Charlie Rose. Rose asked him about the future of the planet. Turner said matter of factly, "There's a population problem." I'm not convinced by either side of abortion. But that made me think. Just a thread.

I was VERY pro-life until I was put in that situation. I didn't think I would ever change my mind. But now I see it's not clear cut. so it's very easy to sit back and say this or that until you are in that situation. the reason i didn't abort my son...i really believe..is because i don't remember the rape. i can't say i wouldn't have done something if i remembered it.

now hwat you mean about feeling one way until it happens....

I had always been of the firm belief that is I were ever to come in contact with a rapist I would slowly torture and maim them.

I had the opportunity when my ex-wife was raped by a fellow soldier and CID covered it up. I was actually introduced to the son of a dog, face to face. I simply turned around, took my wifes arm, and walked away.

to this day, I am glad I did not beat the living piss out of the guy, as two wrongs don't make a right, and with my ex-wifes history I have to question wether or not it was rape in the first place, or if she was lying to me from the beginning.

But until I had the opportunity to do so, I always swore I would beat the living piss out of anyone who forced themselves on another.