Going on face values would be a novel idea :).

Could us humans stand to all be the same?

Kozee

I get from what you're saying that we could not be without identities?

Out of curiosity - how would you know yourself?

Kozee

It seems as if humans have to have identities in order to be able to communicate with each other and get around on planet earth.

Could we even imagine ourself without any identities?

How would we raise our children? Go to work. Go out and party? Would there be no difference between us without identities?

I suppose just our bodies alone signify different identities as all our bodies are somewhat different from each other.

Would there be more harmony and less chaos in the world without identities?

Kozee

Actually Kozee there are some distinct differences from Eft and eastern methods. In the west the term,"energy psychology" still stinks of "this is all in our heads and therefore not a part of reality." As a Taoist I am of the belief that the energy that is worked in these systems is a part of total human reality. That is to say it applys to body, mind and soul as a whole. If you say that it is the same thing then i would say putting western terminology on a clearly eastern concept is just salad dressing and dis-respects the origins of these systems. I can certainly understand you wanting to put these concepts in terms more platable to a western mind but the terms you are using by definition dismiss critic concepts that embody these systems. Another western concept you are using is the "idea of how fast a system works." This screams of a western mindset, wanting everything here and now rather then growing and developing it. I won't debate with you about speed becuase i am more focused with quality and long term results. just something to think about next time you claim we have bridged east and west. The terminology is of a western mindset and chooses to ignore vital eastern concepts by difinition alone. just something to think about...


I can see your view about it. So, let me clarify just a bit.

Originally, EFT was Thought Field Therapy, by Roger Callahan. He was an accupressurist who had studied this chinese method for years. As the story goes, he one day was listening to a woman explain her terrible fear of water including "pools" that you can stand in. So, for some reason he took it upon himself to press just beneath her eye because that particular area also has nerve channels to the stomach area and solar plexus. Within about 5 minutes, this person's "fear" suddenly was gone. They were both surprised. The woman tested it out by actually stepping into a pool and feeling fine about it. Apparently, her fear of water never came back.

However, Roger Callahan's technique was long and involved and went over many "nerve points" of the body. One had to study this method from him and it costs thousands of dollars.

Then this guy, Gary Craig comes and along and says - "hey" since there are specific areas in the body where certain nerve centers seem to come together, why not just tap on those and allow for the nervous system to do the rest. This cut not only the time in half of having to touch all the different nerve areas, but it also cut the teaching time as well.

As well, he also launched a great marketing program where people can do this for free, while Gary Craig also has created a program to get this method to as many professionals as possible so that this can enhance what the different professions already have.

Now, I segue back into what you are referring to, Maikuru. The only thing that is really anything similar to the "east" is the meridians and the tapping or touching with fingers to those spots. That's about it. Everything else, is western.

Here's an example. Let's just say that you "love" to meditate. You do it almost everyday. Then for some reason, one day you don't feel like it and then the next couple of days you notice that suddenly things are intruding or becoming more important than meditating.

What you then do is simply focus on the idea that you didn't feel like it and then got distracted and start to tap on certain meridians as you totally focus on the idea you didn't feel like it and then got distracted. Get in touch with whatever feelings or emotions that were going on with you when you originally didn't feel like it and continue "tapping" or touching the meridians in sequence. If you want to get an idea of a comparison of before and after you've done this, you can give yourself a "scale" of 1 to 10 of how intense or not something is.

When you have gotten to the point where none of the whole situation bothers you and you can easily go back to doing meditation - then you know its a done deal.

So, that's what I meant by "east" meets "west". The physical part is the "east" and the mental part is the "west".

I personally like meditating at times and have no qualms about certain eastern practices, for the most part, although I "do" admit to being very American "cultured" and have no intention of moving to India or Asia anytime soon.

As far as things being only in our "heads" - I mentioned in prior email, that if I tell people to point to where their upset or trauma or situation is - most people can do that. Its not all in their head. Sometimes its in other parts of the body. So, from that I deduced that we don't hold "all" our memories in the brain in the head, necessarily. But basically, as far as I know, its all "memory" based. If you wipe out the memory, then there isn't anything to look at from the past.

As far as body, mind and soul, they usually work so closely together that combining the different techniques of the physical and the mental might also bring about a more spiritual aspect. Just depends on each person and how far they want to go with awareness.

As far as quickness goes - with this technique, it really depends on what a person is addressing, plus, to what degree they are willing to look at emotional and physically painful areas, plus to what degree they're willing to let go of certain things. So, some things may lift off and be gone in minutes while other things might take weeks, maybe even some months. Again, it all depends on what one is handling.

This is a technique you can at least "try" on just about anything that can come up. There's no guarantee that it works 100% of the time, but there are definitely some interesting results from doing this over a period of time.

:) Kozee

Here's another "site" that has a video imbedded there about "affirmations":
http://www.howtobecomeamillionaire.us/category/positive-affirmation/

Then for affirmation ideas there's:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Top-EFT-Tapping-Tips-and-Affirmations&id=1325261

There's a Dr. Mercola who has some interesting things on his site:

http://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse6.htm


Anyways, there's lots of info if you just type "key" words into Google.

:) Kozee

Wow! What a fascinating subject. I don't think I've ever even asked that question. I sometimes have such an aversion to "words" that I kind of suppress these areas. Even while I talk and think and write, sometimes words are difficult for me to come up to describe particular concepts.

Has anyone come up with some theories from say archeologists or linguists? I haven't done any "net" research on it.

I can only guess that it came along as man developed with brain abilities. That drawing hieroglyphics and making sounds may have been something that went together.

From what I heard at one time, way back when, some of the language was developed as man had evolved into someone that began to understand the idea of "trading". That eventually, there were markings sometimes letting others know what was being traded. But I don't really know about that.

I suppose there were a lot of grunts and sounds that meant things.

I wonder what the first actual "language" was. Think it may have been before "Sumarian"?

Kozee

Did you do it from www.tapping.com?

There are specific "affirmation" type of sayings for the purpose of feeling uplifted and relaxed. If you're interested, I could find them and post a few :).

Kozee

To know if, and how it works requires study, and again if you look at page one Redy cited a study that explains how it works backed up with research.

Reminds me of "rapping". :) KL

That is true, but its should be required for respect.


For me, the bottom is - does it work? To what degree is there a consistancy of it working. How easy or difficult is it to do. Do I have to depend on someone else for results, or can I do it myself for the most part? The rest of it can come later as to the who, what, when, where, why, how and so forth. I'm sort of an A to B person in that respect because I've heard so much "theory" and ramblings on about methods, that I just wanna get down to the nitty gritty and see if it works. That's the proof - not the rest of it. Everything else is

:) Kozee

Healed, cured, all the same thing.

My apologies. I left out info. When dealing with words and legal stuff, its all about words. For instance I can't "legally" call myself a therapist because I don't have the credentials. If someone wanted to pursue getting me in trouble for that, they could. The same with other words, I have found out. If I said I could "cure" something who knows who could come after me. I think if people who had to go to Mexico to continue some sort of alternative medicine, didn't use certain words, they may not have had such a tough time - but that's just a speculation on my part about that.

So, "healed" is very similar to "cure", but it won't get me in trouble. Just like "coaching" will not get me in trouble like "therapist" would.

However, even though I "have" done some healing and watched body's heal in small ways (I've never done a cancer patient), its still not my "forte" and I don't specialize in it.

What lead you to that conclusion?

The person being administered to said they either felt a lot better or whatever it was they had was gone or at least disappearing.



I have no doubt that you felt something, unless this is all a way to take advantage of people, and I make no judgments but there are those kinds of folks out there.

I wish I knew how to take advantage of people in the way I believe you mean - I wouldn't be on this particular website and I'd be rich.



No not difficult at all, just an all together different conclusion is required to make it easy to believe.

The guy admitted to me that he had done it. He also said he couldn't "turn it off". He was like that all the time. I personally wouldn't want to be like that "all the time". He said that sometimes certain types machinery would jam or stop because of it, but he didn't do it intentionally. Like compasses would go crazy. This I didn't see for myself, but I know what I was feeling. You can't see electricity, but if you've been shocked by a loose wire in a puddle of water - you can't see it, but you feel it. He wasn't "that" amped up, but its a similar example.

I agree, and my point is on intellectual honesty and knowing why something works.

In order for me to figure out only some of the reasons why healing or some therapies work, I looked things up on line as to how the body worked and in what way the intention of the "driver" of the body (so to speak) can influence the body (along with other drivers of bodies). I haven't done a "thorough" job, just enough to get the idea.
Here's a youtube that you can either believe or not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_r4tDQM3Lg
I have Dr. Emoto's book. Does make one think a bit as far as how we influence our bodies since our bodies are about 75% water.

Do you think it would stop working if the person receiving the therapy knew why it worked?

Even if I gave you a magick show or an illusion like Chris Angel does and you found out how it worked, it doesn't mean that there still wouldn't be an illusion there that you were looking at. If I told you all about how actors create characters, it doesn't mean that a really good actor still couldn't make you forget that he's acting and you'd get into the character and enjoy the show.

If you looked up in a logical way how the body creates certain energies and manifests through its cellular and other organs to form different tiny little structures and how the mind, brain and being can to some greater or lesser degree create an effect on the body, wouldn't this enhance things instead of having a rejection of them or belief that it wouldn't work?

Yes, the subjective plays an important part because it has the power to also change things physically as well.

The only way to judge something as to its workability is by what the body and being are putting forth. I don't actually know of any other way at this point in my life of how one would know if something worked or not.

Kozee

I "watched" the video about a month ago or so as someone on a list I'm on put it up on the list. I thought it was an absolutely fascinating video. I loved it.

To address the "energy field" thing, I agree with you that you do not have to "use" an energy field to perceive or be aware. This is two separate things to me. However, I'm talking about what is already "stashed" in and on and around the body and the ability to perceive them. These are two different activities (as I said).

I don't know where I said anything about healing someone's "owies" with EFT. As a matter of fact I said that I never use the word "cure". I also don't ever guarantee that I can heal someone's illness or injuries with EFT. Others might, but I don't. I do say that I can help with the emotional aspects of it, to either lessen the emotional areas or perhaps even eliminate some of the extra drama.

I "have" studied other types of healing techniques of which "some" have actually helped to quicken up the healing of someone quite quickly. I took a class and healed this guy's walking pneumonia, where he only had a slight residual after another 2 days. And this kinda blew me away - I didn't expect it. And I've had other similar things happen while taking different classes - but I don't really specialize in healing bodies, per se. I've met a few people who are really good at it, but its just not quite my thing. There are lots of Reiki people around for that :).

I've seen some pretty hefty miracles from people being able to "heal" and I admire their abilities for this. The heat some of these people put out is intense. I had one guy standing next to me one day while I was looking at books at the Bodhi Tree Book Store. He was standing 2 feet or so away and my "hip" started to have this "burning" feeling. I kinda scratched at it and got restless and then went back to looking at books. It happened again but more intense and I realized it was coming from the guy standing next to me. Then he finally said something and we talked a bit. Just before he left he put his hand over my right shoulder and the heat that came through my shoulder and down around another 6 inches or so, was so intense, it blew me away. I had no idea a human could do that. For myself, I don't know if I could ever get that much energy up. Its difficult to believe unless you experience it for yourself.

I wouldn't doubt that there are at least around 200,000 people or more (give or take) who have at least tried EFT once, since its up on the net all the time. It doesn't sound like a whole lot, but the numbers do keep climbing. The lovely thing is that you can simply do it for yourself and don't have to join anything. Or, you can find one other person to do it with and have a field day experimenting with it. No one is "screwing" you over and you have to scream at them for your "money back" guarantee.

Its cool if you do try it, but I'm kinda beyond "having" to have someone try it out. The subject came up on the community threads and so I thought I'd respond to it because I use it. Other than that, I can enjoy talking about it, but the only thing I have to gain by it is if someone tries it out, then I get to talk to them about it, which is always fun to do :).

:) Kozee

Thats funny this sounds just like my favorite remedy for 90% of what ails you.

Its called GetOffYourAssAndExcerciseAndDoSomeThingFun.

Long name, but it really gets the juices flowing.

My problem with any of this stuff is that is claims to effect energy, which has been tested in clinical and scientific settings and no evidence what so ever has been found to support such claims.

That is not to say that these techniques have no value, but to be intellectually honest is to admit either you don't know why it works, or to do like Di and cite a proper study that explains it honestly.


Okay - so it claims to effect energy - so does exercise and stuff like that. So, does thinking for too long :).

For the last few years or so, I've been doing this "weird" little experiment. Whenever someone tells me a particular type of emotion/thought, you know something that upsets them or annoys or whatever, I ask them to "point" to it. Strange, huh? But you know - 98% of the people I ask to do that - can do that. Maybe just 2% have no idea what the heck I'm talking about.

Not all of those people pointed to their "head" where you'd think everything would be stored. Some pointed to their heart or chest area, some to their shoulders, some to their back and some pointed "outward" from themself by a foot or so (give or take). Some said it was all over the body (whatever the emotion was) and etc.

So, with that, I figured if the memory isn't just "in the head", then wherever the person is pointing to is where at least most of the memory is being "stored". That means its being stored most likely along some nerve system. If its being stored along some nerve system then there is energy there as the body's energy is created by the neurons creating electrical current (at least I think so, if my poor science still serves me).

When tapping or touching particular nerve channels or meridians what happens is that the person becomes more aware of those energies or memories that have been stored. They seem to become more pronounced as more attention is given them. More information comes up and then the person starts to look at whatever it is they are addressing on a more focused level. However, sometimes, when tapping in these areas, the release is so fast and so thorough that the person doesn't even get to see why it was there to begin with. These people sometimes look at me and just get kinda puzzled with some blank stares. When I ask them how is it now, they say - I don't know. They don't know because its not there anymore and they can't understand where it went and the idea that it went so fast. And don't ask me why it sometimes works that way, because that part I haven't figured out yet. And also, no, it doesn't work that way on everything because there are some things that people try to hang on to.

This method is sort of a "psychology" for dummies. Its so simple that just about anyone can do it. Not to say that there aren't more expert people at it who get better results than others do. In my mind, its an A to B route towards releasing some stuff without having to beat your brains in all the time.

You can try it for free, or you can just speculate about it and think on it and run around the block a few times or get several pro and con articles or totally just think its like everything else in the world that has anything to do with Chinese or look up what Obama's been up to and wonder if he ever has any troubles or if you should walk the dog.

So much for seeking and reaching.

Oi vey,
Kozee

Yea, one has to be careful how one portrays themself when doing this sort of thing. While its marketed to therapists, psychologists, doctors, psychiatrists and others, by the "founder" Gary Craig, that does not mean its totally legal to use the same vernacular or terms that "licensed" people use. For example - Its not wise to tell someone they can "cure" them of some illness, etc. The word "cure" can set one up for a lawsuit. However, one can simply say that an illness can be addressed and the emotions from it can be "run".

I'd have to do some research as to whether it can be billed here in the U.S. yet through insurance companies at least. I think there are a "few" companies that will allow for some insurance claims for EFT.

EFT has become a most popular method since the late 90's. In the beginning there was only about 2 or 3 websites - now, there seem to be pages of websites.

Kozee

Each and everyone has different aspects to it, but as far as basic concepts, you are correct. Each one addresses "energy" in and around the body.

I am no expert in any of the above. I can only assume that some are quicker than others in attaining a clearer head and body and achieving a much purer aura and better intention with the chi.

EFT does work with the energy, but at the same time addresses situations by directly looking at them. I would imagine that "energy" methods you mentioned could do the same thing, but might take a bit longer, depending on how good one has become at them.

EFT has done the "east" meets "west". One releases pressures in areas of the body and at the same time can apply what is known as "energy psychology".

All I can say is that you can try it on something surface at first - like perhaps if someone has cut you off in traffic or someone has annoyed you. I've mentioned where you can find how to do it and a bit about it in the other post. Its free, so what the heck :).

Kozee

I've been doing EFT for about 8 years now. It "is" cool.

For doing it on self, for the most part, I'd say it was fairly easy. But there are some areas in life where its much better if you have a partner for it.

The best place to learn about tapping is
www.tapping.com. Magnus has 13 videos you can watch and learn from. And of course if someone wants to do extensive reading they can always go to emofree.com and download an 80 page manual for free. There's also www.123eft.com.

One can also join a Yahoo Group after they've looked at the above called EmotionalFreedomTechniqueDiscussion where they discuss how to use it and whatever questions that pop up.

Its one of the easiest things to do, but it does take a bit of training or reading about it so one can be effective with it.

Its great to do on self, but also on friends and relatives too. I cured my daughter's really bad cat allergy with it. Took me about 6 different times and at about 30 minutes a piece, but it finally worked :). I also cured her migraine headaches with it. Again, it took me several different times, but it finally worked too :). My other daughter, I've helped her through some emotionally bad times, like with guys and stuff.

I've also helped other people over the phone and I've even got my first "client" from it too!! I actually got paid - lol!!

The other thing about EFT is that it can be used with other methods too. Its very versatile.

Enuf said :)

Kozee

This is the sad part. But I have to admit, that I went into Scn back in the 70's and while it was "similar" it wasn't the same. When did all this happen to you (what year)?

What lights and numbers? The meter they used didn't have "lights and numbers". But, I haven't been back in the Church for "years". Must be a whole lot that is new since LRH has been dead for at least 23 years.

This is what I had been talking about. People looked at sales and PR and nothing else. Many people don't bother to simply try something out for themself, without having to go to the Church. Now, apparently, the sales and manipulation of getting people in the door is so "loud" and pronounced, that anything else regarding what some of the teachings are, is also classified along with that first impression.

I've experienced almost dying, but not from Scn itself. From those who abuse and misuse it. It cuts a double edged sword. I believe that even a bible can be used to justify evil deeds, but that doesn't make the bible evil (no I'm not religious - its just an example). Just about every type of belief system on this planet can be turned for good or bad, depending on how its used.

Understand that I actually could care less whether you ever study the subject or not :) I'm just saying that in some of the books, some of the information is quite useful. That as far as auditing goes, if done right, its a little bit of a slow boat to China at times, but it can help relieve and release some painful areas. This in itself, has nothing to do with the PR, hype, manipulations, etc. This is just one of the reasons I stay away from the Church itself. But I have no qualms about reading the "how to's" in the privacy of my own home.

Anyways, thanks for sharing the story as its one more reason to add to the fact that David Miscaviage sucks as the leader of Scn and I'd never go back. I think it would shock and sadden me. Besides, I don't think that "robots" should be running the show and there are plenty of them there.

Kozee

Well, its as I see it :) - thank you.

Thousands of people have had such a diverse amount of experience with Scn in one way or another and again, some of the stories are amazing, both good and bad.

There are things I experienced that I'm truly glad I did and then there are other areas I wish I hadn't ever been there for.

Kozee :)