Good post RiverTigris.
Thank you.

I cannot continue this discussion. You have provided no Scripture to back up anything you say. Your posts are nonsense and you have been attacking me.

Grow up.

CLV Matt 5:48 You, then, shall be mature as your heavenly Father is mature.

Actually, the word "fornication" is not in the Bible. It didn't exist when the NT was written.

Much like the term "hell" "fornication" is used to substitute a different word from the Scriptures. Just as "hell" is used to substitute 4 different words, so is "fornication used to substitute 4 different words.

These are...

porne- That means prostitute (Revelation 19:2 uses porne)

porneia- Is Prostitution (1 Cornithians 7:2 uses porneia)

porneuo- Is committing prostitution (1 Cornithians 6:18 uses porneia)

pornos- That is a male prostitute, which might be known as a Gigolo today (1 Corinthians 6:9 uses pornos)

I list these verses as examples only.

The word "fornication" is used in the KJV 36 times, 4 times in the OT and 32 times in the NT.

Prostitution is a business transaction, where money is exchanged for sexual services. This practice (called the oldest profession) was so popular in Rome that there was a street named after it. Prostitution in Ancient Rome was legal and licensed.

Prostitution was big business in Rome. So why would it be so strange that Paul was addressing this widespread problem?

By restoring the word "Prostitution" to the Scriptures and eliminating the word "Fornication" we can see that the church has very little to say about mankind's sexual activities.

Adultery is defined as a married person having sex outside of his/her marriage.
Virginity is also defined in the OT.
But there is really nothing that says two people who are in love cannot have sex.

Unless, of course, you are willing to say that every woman who has ever given herself to a man is a Prostitute.

Are you?

The Scriptures tell us how to study the Scriptures. And there is no mention of a 20/20 rule. It's a shame you don't understand the simple implications. And, yes, your logic is flawed.



You don't think God can make His Will come true? Oh, ye of little faith.

I cannot continue this discussion. You have provided no Scripture to back up anything you say. Your posts are nonsense and you have been attacking me.

Grow up.

CLV Matt 5:48 You, then, shall be mature as your heavenly Father is mature.

There is no "hell." So there is no salvation from "hell." Jesus never used the word and you have not proven that it even exists, except in your own mind.

CLV 1Ti 2:4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.

It is God's Will that all mankind be saved. You don't think that God is capable of making His Will come true?

CLV 1Ti 4:10 (for into/for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.

Here He is called Saviour of ALL mankind. Who is not part of ALL? Not saved from "hell" because there is no "hell."



The context is what Jesus spoke of over and over. It is a shame that you missed it. Or did you? Perhaps you have never even read the NT.

Therefore your logic is flawed. Also, there is no 20/20 rule when studying the Scriptures. There is no mention of a 20/20 rule in the Scriptures.

100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
by Thomas Whittemore

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html

Sure they do.

Here are 4. Put them against the Bible verses that you have posted. Oh, that's right. You haven't posted any.

CLV Ro 11:32 For God locks up all together into/in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.

CLV 1Ti 2:4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.

CLV 1Ti 4:10 (for into/for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.

CLV Col 1:20 and through Him to reconcile all into/to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens.

CLV 1Cor 15:51 Lo! a secret to you am I telling! We all, indeed, shall not be put to repose, yet we all shall be changed

There are many more at:

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html

Check them out.



The Bible doesn't support Universalism, and neither do I.

Once again, you are wrong about that.



I haven't "twisted" anything> I post what the Bible says. And you do not.

After this, you start to get downright nasty.

I never said I did. But I would guess that you use the KJV.



I see. You prefer to exclude the gospels? Well, I suppose that way we still have Paul's writings.



You want to take words out of the Bible and/or change them? Have you not read the warnings about that?

CLV Re 22:18 "I am testifying to everyone who is hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If ever anyone may be appending onto them, God shall be appending onto him the calamities written in this scroll.
19 And if ever anyone should be eliminating from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall be eliminating his part from the log of life, and out of the holy city, that is written in this scroll.

I have a better idea. Let's read the Scriptures, just as they are, and follow what they say.



Wrong.

Here are just a few Bible verses that tell us all mankind will be saved...

CLV 1Tim 2:6 Who is giving Himself a correspondent Ransom for all (the testimony in its own eras),

CLV Hb 2:9 Yet we are observing Jesus, Who |has been made some bit inferior to messengers (because of the suffering of death, wreathed with glory and honor), so that in the grace of God, He should be tasting death for the sake of everyone.

CLV 1Jn 2:2 And He/is the propitiatory shelter concerned with our •ins, yet not concerned with •urs only, but concerned with the whole world also.

CLV Jn 12:32 And I, if I should be exalted out of the earth, shall be drawing all to Myself."

Based on what it says in the Bible, all mankind will be saved. But I can produce at least 100 Bible verses that say the same thing.

And yet, you have produced none.



The rest of this is just fantasy. You haven't posted one Bible verse to back up anything you have said.

Not even one.

What is the problem? Haven't you read the Bible?

There is no Scriptural evidence to support the idea that fire and torment are somehow related...

Gen.22:7 - Did Abraham intend to send his son to hell?
Exodus 3:2 - Was Mosses talking to the devil?
Exodus 12:8 - Was Israel commanded to roast their meat in hell?
Exodus 40:38 - Was it the fires of hell that guided Israel?
Leviticus 1:12 - Was it hell that consumed these animals?
Leviticus 2:16 - Were offerings made to the Lord in hell?
Deuteronomy 4:12 - Did the Lord speak from hell?

I could go on and on, I just hope you get the idea. There is no association with fire and sheol/hades.

But we do eventually escape this world. According to the myth, in "hell" there is no escape... ever.



Clearly, you are confused. Perhaps you need to actually read the Bible? But I suggest that you find an English version a bit more accurate than the KJV.

The KJV seems to be in the minority when publishing the term "hell.":


New International Version
because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, you will not let your holy one see decay.

New Living Translation
For you will not leave my soul among the dead or allow your Holy One to rot in the grave.

English Standard Version
For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption.

Berean Study Bible
because You will not abandon my soul to Hades, nor will You let Your Holy One see decay.

Berean Literal Bible
for You will not abandon my soul into Hades, nor will You allow Your Holy One to see decay.

New American Standard Bible
BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.

King James Bible
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
because You will not leave me in Hades or allow Your Holy One to see decay.

International Standard Version
For you will not abandon my soul to Hades or allow your Holy One to experience decay.

NET Bible
because you will not leave my soul in Hades, nor permit your Holy One to experience decay.

New Heart English Bible
because you will not abandon my soul in Sheol, neither will you allow your Holy One to see decay.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Because you did not leave my Soul in Sheol and you did not give your Pure One to see destruction.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
because you do not abandon my soul to the grave or allow your holy one to decay.

New American Standard 1977
BECAUSE THOU WILT NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES,
NOR ALLOW THY HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.

Jubilee Bible 2000
because thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

King James 2000 Bible
Because you will not leave my soul in hades, neither will you allow your Holy One to see corruption.

American King James Version
Because you will not leave my soul in hell, neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption.

American Standard Version
Because thou wilt not leave my soul unto Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, nor suffer thy Holy One to see corruption.

Darby Bible Translation
for thou wilt not leave my soul in hades, nor wilt thou give thy gracious one to see corruption.

English Revised Version
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption.

Webster's Bible Translation
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thy Holy One to see corruption:

Weymouth New Testament
For Thou wilt not leave me in the Unseen World forsaken, nor give up Thy holy One to undergo decay.

World English Bible
because you will not leave my soul in Hades, neither will you allow your Holy One to see decay.

Young's Literal Translation
because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, nor wilt Thou give Thy Kind One to see corruption;

Once again, you are wrong.



Perhaps. But not every word of any language is in the Bible.

Every word that is in the English version of the Bible must have an ancient counterpart. If not, it is not a translation, but an interpretation.

You KJV is just such a version--- an interpretation.



I am not sure what you are trying to say here. We are not studying languages, but the Bible. I am not interested in studying "every word and language" And it is evident that you have not studied "every word and language."



The concept of "hell" is absent from the Scriptures. It is clearly just not there. There is no ancient word for "hell." No origin for "hell."

The concept of a "hell" began in Christianity with the Catholic church. The Jews had no "hell." And Jesus never spoke of a "hell."

The Catholic reasoned that "hell" must be a very cold place, as it was the farthest away from God. Demons and devils were depicted on church windows as blue, to reflect the extreme cold. The concept of a hot "hell" didn't come in until sometime after the 10th century.

The Catholic church added the term 'gehenna' to the word 'sheol' and came up with a hot "hell." Red demons started to spring up in stained glass windows. Perhaps in 100 years, they will turn green.

This is NOT how God operates. His word does not change.



If you are confused about where you will go after death, perhaps you need to read the Bible. Jesus told us exactly where we all go. John spoke of it in the Book of Revelation.

CLV 1Co 15:42 Thus also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is roused in incorruption.

CLV 1Co 15:51 Lo! a secret to you am I telling! We all, indeed, shall not be put to repose, yet we all shall be changed,
52 in an instant, in the twinkle of an eye, at the last trump. For He will be trumpeting, and the dead will be |roused incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal put on immortality.
54 Now, whenever this corruptible should be putting on incorruption and this mortal should be putting on immortality, then shall come to pass the word which is written, Swallowed up was Death by Victory.
55 Where, O Death, is your victory? Where, O Death, is your sting?

I actually covered this in my thread about The Rich Man and Lazarus... Literal or Figurative?

Didn't you read it?

But I still ask the question, what is the Ancient term for "hell"? The answer is, there is none.

Of course, I didn't mean you.

And it is not a requirement to read the Bible from cover to cover. I suppose some people have met Jesus and are satisfied with that.

But I see several people here who even admit to not reading the Bible, and yet they are the first in line to criticize Christianity. And more often than not, there is no basis for their critique. As we can see by the false pretense that the earth is 6,000 years old. Again, not a Scriptural concept.

Perhaps they just "heard it through the grapevine."

Also, all this discussion about the age of the Earth is really off topic.

How can you interpret what you have never read?

Here is a little trick that I have seen some use here. They try to find some strange or unusual belief that some Christians have and then try to judge all Christians by that standard.

A case in point...

Some here claim that Christians believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old. And I suppose it's true that a small percentage believe that. But there is nothing in the Bible that says the Earth is 6,000 years old. In fact, the Bible does not deal with the age of the Earth.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I study the Scriptures, and not what religious leaders such as Pat Robertson have to say. I follow Jesus Christ that is represented in the NT. Not what any religion may or may not believe.

As I have already stated in my thread The Largest Religion Today, Christianity is the largest religion in the world today. There are thousands of Christian sects that each follow their own beliefs.

Looking through some of them and finding strange or unusual beliefs is not very hard. Not is it very accurate.

If you feel you must criticize someone else's religion, such as Christianity, at least try to be accurate about it.

I am sure God had a plan. He has one even now.

The earth was not in chaos.

Another blunder from the bisexual king. The KJV.

CLV Gen 1:1 In a beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.
2 As for the earth, it came to be a chaos and vacant, and darkness was over the surface of the abyss. And the spirit of Elohim was vibrating over the surface of the waters.

Actually, the Bible tells us that God did NOT create the earth in chaos...

CLV Isa 45:18 For thus says Yahweh, Creator of the heavens; He is the One, Elohim, the Former of the earth and its Maker, He Himself established it; He did not create it a chaos; He formed it to be indwelt: I am Yahweh, and there is no other;

The Earth is NOT 6000 years old and there is nothing in the Bible to support that idea.

This is just another example of a false Christianity.

The problem I see is that so many people make assumptions based on what they have heard, yet never really finding out the facts for themselves. This represents a type of Christianity that was never meant to exist.

There was a guy on here who thought the Bible said the Earth is 6000 years old. That is utter nonsense. Then after spreading these strange ideas, people tend to judge Christianity and Christians by these false impressions.

I see some say that they heard such crazy stuff, but are too lazy or not interested enough to find out what the Bible actually does say.

I suppose you could say there is a factual Christianity as opposed to one that is not.



Oh, I don't know. Aren't there still smokers?

Nowhere in the Scriptures does God or Jesus say that Jesus is God. Nowhere.

As I have said before, I can not accept anything you say without Scriptural back-up.

This thread is not about me or my beliefs. It is about what can be found in the Bible. A book you seem to reject.

Yes, I did go to Moody.
And where did you go to?

There is no deity of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures.