Daniel will get back tomorrow, would love to hear more thoughts. before I go tho lets all remember that as long as there are different countries, different beliefs there will be war. Every single one of them (countries) will fight for their rights and their beliefs as we will. There has been this fact throughout written history and beyond. Firstly it is survival to keep what we have to maintain our lands that supply us with food and housing and then on into our rights, the very rights that brought our forefathers here. In that respect we all share it and want it. That is why we are called the land of the Free and why so many either seek it for refuge or seek to destroy it. To disband the military is to give up all of it. And anyone who thinks that another country or religion wouldn't come in here and take it away we are only fooling ourselves. Blessed Be Everyone!

You think alot Ronny but you don't know. Thats the problem. Somehow your trying to make it real and here it isn't gonna happen. Until you understand how you come across I doubt too many will agree with you. Oh no Daniel your saying exactly how and what I think just better lol

No you contridicted yourself again. The fact may be that records were released by now that are released without authorization makes them questionable until proven in a court. The probability of tampering is there, maybe it happened maybe it didn't, but as long as a shred of doubt exists it is not a proven fact. There is no fact in your statement of proving he was an "extremist and that it was in his records if any logical thought is used", that is not fact its guessing, its making it what you want it to say. I doubt very few military men have gone all the way thru without disciplinary action of some sort, that proves nothing. Why don't you guess some more and tell us what it was for? I think your trying to hide your feelings in making it somebody else's fault.

Not you Daniel I agree with you

See you are wrong again. You can not state things and demand that it believed when as Daniel stated there are no facts to support them yet. Would you not demand a fair and just trial if you were accussed wrongly, you bet you would. That man, no every living person deserves that right to. Strong is not in pushing and demanding of people to accept ideas that are not theirs. It is not vengence, it is not war, it is compassion, the ability to see thru the webs and see the spider for who she is. Even the spider is smarter than to attack before the fly is caught and condemed in the web. YOU HAVE NO FACTS TO SUPPORT YOUR STATEMENTS!!!!!

This reminds me of the cat & mouse game, only one mouse so far! lol

What? That's your stance! Your right becoz it's your opinion. I'm right becoz its my religion and I BELIEVE IN IT!

Ah thanks Mirror must be something like my ancestors Death Prayer (which were Viking) would say before battle: Taken from the 13th Warrior oh was that a Muslim who fought for and with my Viking ancestors, only a movie but hey someone thought it worked, worked for me, must be universal thinking, normal thinking!

Lo There Do I See My Father
Lo There Do I See My Mother, Sisters and Brothers
Lo There Do I See The Line Of My People Back The Beginning
Lo They Do Call To Me
They Bid Me To Take My Place Among Them,
In The Halls Of Vahalla, Where The Brave Shall Live Forever!

Does this not show every religion prays to their God/Gods/Goddesses when death is looming. Does it make them extremist, terrorists or wacko? No it means all Gods/Goddesses are worthy of worship in however the person sees fit and is right for them. If it makes me wacko then so be it! I wont be told what to believe nor will I allow it to be forced upon me!

thanks for reminding me of that Mirror!!

Well I got years on you, lived thru much more than you and obviously understand the world better. Haven't seen anybody agreeing with you yet?! HMMMM How the hell did KKK inter into this? Man you got problems.

I never said one way or the other about fighting becoz of their religion nor did condone in any way his act of violence. You are so full of anger. You think you are right but in truth it's attitudes and opinions like your that coz conflict. If your so ready to enilate another life why don't up reup and go over there? You obviously arent dealin with it here. I am not wrong. You are. Decisions made in anger and haste bring only death and destruction. War and death is not always the solution, it only encourages the problem. Let me tell you something I have a long Military history in my family and I have buried my friends and I would stand and do my duty as a citizen any day, so don't go pushing your so special becoz your out for vengence for your buddies. Why don't you turn that into doing it for your Country? Vengence is born of hate and anger. Step on my toes and yes I'm gonna fight back, but to attack people before I know ALL the facts, no. Everyone in this country, American Citizens regardless of religion, have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty and since you are not Judge and Jury, then what you presume is only presumption not fact or truth. Honestly your answers are confusing and conflicting. Don't bother answering me, narrow minded people are not worth my time. Blessed Be!

You still don't get it.
1. It does happen continuously, just ask the mothers and fathers who have lost good children from school shootings, gang violence, drunk drivers, child rapists, murderers. Don't hear you then! Do you seperate the evil in a person by his religion ~ NO! We judge him as a person who did evil. We don't say oh he was a Christian so lets kill them all.
2. You don't have all the facts my friend. Let it be proved that he was a Muslim Wacko first, then sling your words of hate.
3. Most people are not full of hate. Most people, no the majority of people in the world aren't full of hate. That's all you have projected so far and you've still not proven a thing.
4. If you agree that the majority of Muslims are honest, loving, caring and proud to be American, tell me what the difference is for this incident. You can't honestly, because you don't know. Your not there and you don't have the facts. You are slandering a man who you don't know anything abt. Wait till all the facts are in and then LISTEN CAREFULLY to what they are. One man who can not deal any longer with the horrors he has dealt with can not be the example of all, nor can he be labeled a terrorist. He simply was a man who had all he could hold mentally and you should realize that. It happens!
5. I didn't see "ALL" of them dancing in the streets and neither did you. You saw a minority not the majority!!!
6. Ah whats to say you aren't the wacko and the rest of us are sane? How can you make that determination?
7. I don't care what color you are nor do I care what religion you are, I do care that you seem to make it your place to judge and don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot. Is it possible you are wrong? Seems to me it's a big possibility. For the record I'm white too does that make me wacko? No! I'm a Pagan too, does that make me wacko? I got all religions and races in my background just like you but I don't judge you becoz of it.
8. What a short memory, or maybe you just haven't lived long enough. Go back in history, ask President Kennedy about that or maybe the children that have died in schools, etc. I don't think t shooter put a number on anyone. You been in war, you ever killed anyone, is that not indiscrimanately killing of another human? I would think it is. Not premeditated!
9. Well a melting pot, you agree, then know that you shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions, you just might point your finger and hate towards an innocent person, what would that then make you?
10. Who said it was Muslim? Your the only one I've heard say that. Discrimination ~ whether over a mans race or his religion is what we have fought so hard to get rid of. It is why we have brave men and women in harms way. It's why people who think like you have a voice when the majority disagrees. Terrorists are good at it, believing theirs is the only way, now where does that leave you?

You know some keep saying Muslim, what if, just for the sake of argument, it was a Baptist, Methodist or better yet a Pagan who had cracked under the stress? Would we still be so quick to decide it was religious in nature? For the most part I believe not. I believe American Muslims are honest, loving, careing and proud to be an American. I feel certain that the majority of Muslims overseas are good people. You keep on with the wacko muslim, but you don't say anything bout the man in Florida! Why? Both are American. This is America were people have came for Centuries to escape Religious pursecution. I think that we have forgotten our roots and the reasons our Ancestors came here. We are after all suppose to be the land of the FREE, with rights that every man, woman and child should and can be able to worship the God they want and in the way they want. We are and always will be a melting pot, a mixture of races, beliefs and ideas. Thats who and what we are. Terrorists are just that terrorists. They have no regard for life in any form, so there is in my mind a world of difference. Maybe those who are so focused on blaming the Muslims for this act, needs counselling to learn that revenge and hostility begat only more revenge and hositility and in the end makes us no better than the terrorist themselves. Which is what they want, to have us fighting amongst each other, loosing focus and destroying ourselves! No religion that I know preaches violence or the taking of another life, but War produces horrible acts that human nature sometimes can not process and deal with. So PLEASE lets focus on our loss, our beautiful young men and women are gone. Let us praise their lives instead of honoring the horrible deed that has been done!

Some of us have lived long enough to understand the real problem here, thank goodness. Youth has neither the understanding or patience learned from living the truth of wars or civil uprisings. What the elders have lived through the youth can not possibly get. I was born during the Korean conflict so those of you born in that era understand what I mean. I have lost family members, buried my friends and held and listened to a Vietnam Viet relive his trials in Nam. It broke my heart and changed me forever. When it comes to protecting this wonderful land it akes us all. Men, women and children. Yes people of all races and religions!! We are after all the land of the Free. While speech is part of our freedom I find it offensive when "ANY" member of our Military is slandered. When you slander them your slandering my family and my ancestors. If you can't live in the land of the free try living in one of the hot spots of the world, eat the sand, burn up in the sun, starve and have none of the wonderful things we are blessed in this land to have and see if you like it better. My family fought and died and so did my ancestors so the youth could voice their opinions about things they don't really understand. Mankind has become judgemental and cold, that's why there is war, so go join them, we'll find you and when we do see what side you would rather be on.

Been gone for months, forgot how I missed these discussions! Seems to me if the christian god was real then the need to disguise his religion behind Pagan Rituals and beliefs to convert those who did not follow, would not have been needed. eh? If he was real why did he choose to have the "cave men" when it cleary states he created Man in his image? Hmmm food for thot? eh? Where did the dinasours inter into all things? Maybe they were left out becoz man did not know of them when "his" words were written?!? Real Religion lives in each persons heart and soul and it is something only they can know. Whatever the path, whoever the God ~ it is theirs. Truely it can not be demanded, forced, or expected from anyone person from another. Is it not our way to be independent, to walk only our life ~ then such should be Religion. I can not follow someone who's words have been written by another man, I can only follow what MY heart and soul feels. My Pagan ways have lived as long as your christian belief has claimed the Mother Earth has existed. For within Her lives the beginnings and endings of all things. Chritianity took away the rights and roles of Women and belittled them. I'm respectful of anyones religious belief as it can be only theirs. I wonder where Arthur is? Anybody seen him?

Scotland, Wales and Norway!! My heritage!!

That is a hard question to answer. I would want them to becoz I prob would. Just seems that you are askin for trouble later on if you don't and if the people are truely your friends they would understand your delimma and respect it. You have to be committed to a certain degree or you shouldn't be in the relationship.

I would and could sacrifice in order to make my mate happy, but I could not sacrifice myself as far as changing completely who I am. I think sacrifice should come from both sides.

eeewww so do bad mean men

Wasnt purposely looking just noticed it. See we all can have a great convesation!! lol I like the closet thing, really!