The who knows what is gonna get me!



I hope!

Agreed, agreed, agreed!



Oceans

Yes, good point...

Current US unwillingness to join the many international legal
organizations and courts seems to acknowledge that we are no longer
confidant of our legal or moral footings.

Part of a new enlightened America would have to be reversing this and
becomeing a part of the community of nations, in every way.

Hi, Greeneyes!

Welcome to JSH.

The real question to me is, What are YOU offering? Why should someone be
interested in you? Why do you think that you are not attracting the
kind of man (or age) that you are seeking?

We can position ourselves as victims, or as people who take the
initiative here to make things happen....

No?



Oceans

Re. the international police force/peace-keepers...

The Palestinians have many times going back years begged for such a
force, but Israel has refused.

Oceans

Alex:

"find another way to honor your dead rather than
killing in their name"

Well said....

Adj: an international police force/peace-keeping. Yup; let's learn a
lesson from the Canadians, who know how to do this....



Oceans

Yeah, I know....

The US has at several key junctures in human history been the light of
the world, or at least of the "western' world -- Europe. It was that in
the Middle East when it came to the post-WWI situation. remember? The Us
was one of the leaders in the anti-colonial movement. One of the leaders
in the liberal arts. One of the leaders in political stability. One of
the leaders in science and technology. One of the leaders in diplomacy
to build international stability and well-being.

But that light went out, bit by bit, under the twin assaults of
ignorance and selfishness. And under this US administration that light
has been entirely snuffed out.

But, you know what? Candles can be relit. There is still something deep
in the American soul that suggests to me that with the right leadership
we can begin to come back from being the world's bully to again lead the
way toward an enlightenment. I know that it will take time and patience,
and that we will have to earn and re-earn and earn again the world's
trust.

And I believe that the US someday COULD regain a position of honor in
the community of nations, and again begin to offer the world ideas that
are of seminal importance for all.

I can hear each of you laughing at this.....I know. It may not seem
possible or likely. But I would rather seek how to make this come about
than give up....



Oceans

yeah, it is a mess.

Parts of the story we are not routinely seeing being reported:

1. Black teams operating in Gaza that provoke 'sectarian' fighting (same
as the black teams that did that between Sunni and Shi'i in Iraq -- wait
until they start in on the Kurds)

2. The complicity of the international community in making it impossible
for HAMAS, the duly elected party, to run the Palestinian government.
Under the Quartet and the US, the Palestinian government was starved of
funds, trans-border movement was essentially stopped between Gaza and
the West Bank, the intrenational banking community was bullied into
dropping Palestinian accounts, and HAMAS was told that they would be
isolated until they accepted Israeli demands of the Palestinians.

These two elements are key to understanding why the rage has built up in
Gaza. Remember, it is the most densely populated area in the world; it
is in effect a concentration camp run by the Israelis.

Of course we are outraged by the killing, -- of course -- but I suggest
that the outrage should more properly be applied to the international
community that has allowed these conditions to exist for decades, and to
those who sneak in and light the fuse.



Oceans

Well, we do know that the diagnosis of a doctor doesn't create the
disease! Of course, soemtimes that patient and his family get mad at
the doctor, the bearer of bad news....



Oceans

Hi, everyone!

I think in part that this is complicated because in invading Iraq the US
itself did something illegal, and so then the implementation of any
legal code becomes contentious. To get around the legal problem that the
US created for itself, the Bush administration has been inventing
legal-sounding concepts, and trying to convince people and jurists that
they are acceptable concepts.

So they invented: preemptive defense first strikes (the Soafer
Doctrine), 'unlawful combatants', people we detain outside the US have
no legal rights under US law, rendition, definitions of torture,
application of military tribunals to civilians, suspension of habeas
corpus, denial of legal assistance to detainees, indefinite detention,
etc, etc.

I am not even mentioning the domestic legal inventions, e.g. privacy,
wiretapping without warrant, provocation infiltration, refusal to
confront accussee with evidence, refusal to allow accussees to confront
witnesses, etc, etc.

The courts, both in the US and outside, have steadily dismissed or
narrowed the legal claims of the Bush administration, but there is a way
to go. In some cases, (e.g. General Sanchez re. torture/abuse
techniques in Iraq) the administration has voluntarily pulled back on
some of its legalistic claims when it became clear that either they
insolubly violated existing law or that public opinion would oppose the
measure.

So I am thinking that the legal status of:

- US soldiers in Iraq, those who abide by the Geneva Conventions and
UCMJ
- and those who don't

- US contractors, mercenaries (wherever they are from and whoever they
fight for)

- black team operatives

- US civilians working for the US occupation

- Iraqi civilians, Iraqis resisting the US occupation via non-violent
resistance,
- or via use of force and weaponry

- non-Iraqis fighting with the Iraqi resistance, etc.

- US 'detainees' who were kidnapped and who are released uncharged
(innocent)

- US detainees who were kidnapped and who are charged

- US detainees who were detained lawfully and are released uncharged
(innocent)

- US detainees who were detained lawfully and are uncharged

The legal status of each and all of these groups, it seems to me, is
wholly garbled and up for dispute -- given the legal status of the US
invasion and occupation, and the various legal inventions that the Bush
administration has tried to use.

Perhaps the key problem is that when one party breaks the law it can
hardly demand that the law then protect it.

The 'War on Terror' itself has strained both domestic and international
law, and creates an extra layer of legal confusion.

It is going to take years for all this to get into the court system and
get straightened out, and a functioning legal structure reestablished.

Oceans

Thanks, Tigerman!

(((Fallen Angel)))



Oceans

Hi, Dark Angel!

Welcome, to JSH.

A lot will depend too on how friendly you are....



Oceans

Hi, Gypsy...

I am assuming that the 'no feelings' is about your ex, rather than no
feelings about anyone, or anything, right? Two very different
situations!



Oceans

Hey, Tigerman!

Good morning, everyone



Oceans

Welcome to JSH, Trish!

Lots of good people here....have fun, relax and jump in.


Oceans

Good morning, Dana....

How are they doing, sweetie?

How are you doing?

Email if you wish.



Oceans

Hey, bro!

I've been reading your posts on Paul with growing interest. By
temperament, I am drawn to candidates who take unambiguous and coherent
positions on the most difficult issues. So when it comes to domestic
electoral politcs I am usually out of it.

I haven't been able to figure out a way to reconcile the dual needs of
electoral politics: stance on the issues (that I approve of, of
course!), and electability. So I am left, election after election with
the choice between 'the lesser of two evils'. I'm sick of this, but we
may well be inching our way toward this situation once again.

I am neither Democrat nor Republican; neither liberal nor conservative.

My fault is to believe in informed intelligence wherever it is found.
But can informed intelligence be elected?

Good posts, daVinci. Thanks.



Oceans

Thanks, Lulu.

Like Dungeons and Dragons?



Oceans

Welcome to JSH, Goldn!

Lots of good people here, so come on in and make yourself at home!



Oceans

I second Lakeman's idea!

Oceans