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Wed 12/02/15 05:52 AM
Edited by Quoting2400 on Wed 12/02/15 06:00 AM



Just to put my own side of this in:

I did not CHOOSE to believe that there is no God. Had I been able to CHOOSE, I would have chosen to believe.

I DISCOVERED that I did not "see" a god in any of what I experienced here.

And as a long time student and researcher of human behavior, I suggest that you recognize that when asked for explanations, it is very common for people to say what they think they should say, rather than what is actually true.

They aren't lying most of the time, per se, it's more that they are reacting to the various challenges they think they see in the asking of the question, and or trying to get something more from the situation than they have.

Thus some self-proclaimed atheists might say they actively rejected God, as in frustration with the way His people behave, while others might claim atheism in hopes that God will notice and step in to reassure them or "buy them back." Still others will be worried about all the eager people who want to run everyone else's lives as God's self-appointed representatives, and will claim atheism as a defense against oppression.


So what exactly did you discover that made you believe their is no God?

let's turn it around,what exactly did you discover that rationally,objectively proves to you that God,your Concept of it,exists?

Mind you,Rational Objective!


First just look at the universe and we can go from their.

But C.S. Lewis once remarked that "God is not the sort of thing one can be moderately interested in. After all, if God does not exist, there's no reason to be interested in God at all. On the other hand, if God does exist, then this is of paramount interest, and our ultimate concern ought to be how to be properly related to this being upon whom we depend moment by moment for our very existence."

Have you ever asked yourself where the universe came from? Why everything exists instead of just nothing? Typically atheists have said the universe is just eternal, and that's all.

But surely this is unreasonable. Just think about it a minute. If the universe never had a beginning, that means that the number of past events in the history of the universe is infinite. But mathematicians recognize that the existence of an actually infinite number of things leads to self-contradictions. For example, what is infinity minus infinity? Well, mathematically, you get self-contradictory answers. This shows that infinity is just an idea in your mind, not something that exists in reality. David Hilbert, perhaps the greatest mathematician of the twentieth century said something like:

The infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea"

But that entails that since past events are not just ideas, but are real, the number of past events must be finite. Therefore, the series of past events can't go back forever; rather the universe must have begun to exist and this causes a problem for atheist like I said before.

the Big Bang represents the origin of the universe from literally nothing. For all matter and energy, even physical space and time themselves, came into being at the Big Bang. As the physicist P. C. W. Davies explains, "the coming into being of the universe, as discussed in modern science . . . is not just a matter of imposing some sort of organization . . . upon a previous incoherent state, but literally the coming-into-being of all physical things from nothing."

Alexander Vilenkin said

"It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic begining."

And lastly Anthony Kenny of Oxford University says 'A proponent of the Big Bang theory, at least if he an atheist, must believe that the universe came from nothing and by nothing." But surely that doesn't make sense! Out of nothing, nothing comes. So why does the universe exist instead of just nothing? Where did it come from? There must have been a cause which brought the universe into being.

Do you think whatever begins to exist has a cause

When it comes to the existence of the universe it comes down to 3 choices.

That the fine-tuning of the universe is due to physical necessity, chance, or design.

Which one do you think it is?

Quoting2400's photo
Wed 12/02/15 04:02 AM
Edited by Quoting2400 on Wed 12/02/15 04:08 AM
This was one of the main things I need to know and study before I really followed Jesus. Was what was written about him written by people that knew him? Do we have the same copies of it as the earliest Christians? Was anything ever added to fabricate or embellish what Christ did? The answer to all these are no and I'll show you why.

Let's start with the copies and translations we have. For the NT itself we have over 5000 copies with the earliest fragment being from a small fragment from John’s Gospel, dated to the first half of the second century(125AD). But we have new fragments and one more than likely from the 1st century. Newly found manuscripts has as many as eighteen New Testament manuscripts from the second century and one from the first. Altogether, more than 43% of all New Testament verses are found in these manuscripts. But the most interesting thing is the first-century fragment which would be the earliest once dated.

Compare the 5,686 Greek manuscripts in existence today for the NT and when we compare the number of New Testament manuscripts to other ancient writings, we find that the New Testament manuscripts far outweigh the others in quantity. For example Ceasar died in 44BC and the earliest writing we have of him is from 900AD. That's almost 1000 years. Another example is Plato, he died in 347BC. The earliest writings we have on him come 1200 years later. Now the writings on Jesus, he died about 33AD. All scholars agree all the NT was written by 100AD. The latest Gospel being John written between 80-94AD and the earliest Mark written in the 50s. Pauls letters written I n 50 AD, but the creed in 1st Corinthians goes back to when he meet Peter which is told in Acts, so that creed that he got from them already had to be circulating, that creed dates probably 3-5 years after Jesus' death. Much to soon for a legend to form about him. Their were witnesses and enemies still alive.

Scholars agree the entire New Testament was completed within 70 years. This is important because it means there were plenty of people around when the New Testament documents were penned--people who could have contested the writings. In other words, those who wrote the documents knew that if they were inaccurate, plenty of people would have pointed it out. But, we have absolutely no ancient documents contemporary with the First Century that contest the New Testament texts.

If the critics of the Bible dismiss the New Testament as reliable information, then they must also dismiss the reliability of the writings of Plato, Aristotle, Caesar, Homer, and many more.

If anybody has any questions on Jesus' crucifixion, burial or Resurrection plz let me know.




Quoting2400's photo
Wed 12/02/15 03:27 AM

Just to put my own side of this in:

I did not CHOOSE to believe that there is no God. Had I been able to CHOOSE, I would have chosen to believe.

I DISCOVERED that I did not "see" a god in any of what I experienced here.

And as a long time student and researcher of human behavior, I suggest that you recognize that when asked for explanations, it is very common for people to say what they think they should say, rather than what is actually true.

They aren't lying most of the time, per se, it's more that they are reacting to the various challenges they think they see in the asking of the question, and or trying to get something more from the situation than they have.

Thus some self-proclaimed atheists might say they actively rejected God, as in frustration with the way His people behave, while others might claim atheism in hopes that God will notice and step in to reassure them or "buy them back." Still others will be worried about all the eager people who want to run everyone else's lives as God's self-appointed representatives, and will claim atheism as a defense against oppression.


So what exactly did you discover that made you believe their is no God?

Quoting2400's photo
Wed 12/02/15 03:18 AM
Edited by Quoting2400 on Wed 12/02/15 03:25 AM
Let me put in my 2 cents on the subject of science and religion and or God.

Science ce can sometimes verify religious claims. For example, one of the principal doctrines of the Judaeo-Christian faith is that God created the universe out of nothing a finite time ago. The Bible begins with the words, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth” (Gen. 1.1). The Bible thus teaches that the universe had a beginning. This teaching was repudiated by both ancient Greek philosophy and modern atheism, including dialectical materialism. Then in 1929 with the discovery of the expansion of the universe, this doctrine was dramatically verified. Physicists John Barrow and Frank Tipler, speaking of the beginning of the universe, explain "At this singularity, space and time came into existence; literally nothing existed before the singularity, so, if the Universe originated at such a singularity, we would truly have a creation ex nihilo (out of nothing).”

Now the unbeliever can come up with what he or she thinks created the universe out of nothing or use the multi-verse theory. But with that you'll still come back to the first question. What created that universe.

Scientists originally thought that whatever the initial conditions of the universe were, eventually the universe would evolve the complex life forms we see today. But during the last forty years or so, scientists have been stunned by the discovery of how complex and sensitive a balance of initial conditions must be given in the Big Bang in order for the universe to permit the origin and evolution of intelligent life in the cosmos. In the various fields of physics and astrophysics, classical cosmology, quantum mechanics, and biochemistry, discoveries have repeatedly disclosed that the existence of intelligent life depends upon a delicate balance of physical constants and quantities. If any one of these were to be slightly altered, the balance would be destroyed and life would not exist. In fact, the universe appears to have been incomprehensibly fine-tuned from the moment of its inception for the production of intelligent life. We now know that life-prohibiting universes are vastly more probable than any life-permitting universe like ours.

the chances that the universe should be life-permitting are so infinitesimal as to be incomprehensible and incalculable. Stephen Hawking has estimated that if the rate of the universe’s expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have re-collapsed into a hot fireball. P. C. W. Davies has calculated that the odds against the initial conditions being suitable for later star formation (without which planets could not exist) is one followed by a thousand billion billion zeroes, at least.

There are a number of such quantities and constants present in the big bang which must be fine-tuned in this way if the universe is to permit life. So improbability is multiplied by improbability until our minds are reeling in incomprehensible numbers. We cannot comprehend it.

The evidence that the universe was fine tuned for life giving the odds that Mabey it was by random chance is Undeniable. And this is just one piece of evidence for God the creator.

To answer one of the OPs questions, I think some people don't believe in God because their "intellect" tells them other wise, I think they are mad at God for something that happened in their life and they can't believe a God, to them if it was one, would allow that. And yes their are super hard questions when it comes to it but it doesn't take away from the fingerprint God left. And this was just one about the creator I didn't say anything about the evidence Jesus left, and he did.

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Wed 12/02/15 02:12 AM
Yes I've seen and heard some crazy stuff. My aunt and her husband told me in their old house they would see a old man and his dog sitting on their bed. They saw the samething at different times. And they have no reason to lie to me about it. Uncle said one night their door knob was shaking like somebody was trying to open it but when he went and opened it up nobody was in the hall anywhere, they had no kids in the house then.

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Wed 12/02/15 02:04 AM
Edited by Quoting2400 on Wed 12/02/15 02:06 AM
About 5 years ago we were really into investigating places.....we would go to different places in different states to investigate the location. But seems I didn't have to leave my hometown to expierence the weirdest thing I ever have. 2 Chriatmas' ago I stayed with my girl in her grandmas old house. One night we were standing in the bedroom and she was real bitchy and she almost screamed I don't wanna live here anymore.....2 seconds after she said that a blue ball of light, blue ball of energy, a orb if you wanna call it, shot across the room and into this Santa windchime she had hanging over the bed, that ball of light shot into that and made it sway back and forth for about a min. We never saw it Again after it shot into the windchime, but it was unexplainable, I tried to explain it but couldn't. But we both at the same time saw that blue light shoot across the room.

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Wed 12/02/15 01:55 AM
Everybody in the souths not like that. I don't know one person in SC who does. We might hate the Yankees and other northern sports teams like New England but in my 32 years I've never saw a southerner personally attack a northerner just for being northern

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Wed 12/02/15 01:52 AM
Yessir. Live upstate near Rock Hill

Quoting2400's photo
Wed 12/02/15 01:51 AM
I've been in the IT field for 10 years but have never got any certs. Never felt I needed um. But I think now I do. Anybody took their Cisco exams?

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Wed 12/02/15 01:49 AM
Edited by Quoting2400 on Wed 12/02/15 01:50 AM
His new album Chasing the Devils out now. It's suppose to be his last solo album. Who knows, but it's damn good. Yal should check the tracks out on YouTube