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"So did Ted Kennedy. So has Nancy Pelosi. Would you be listening to them if they were saying what Ron Paul was saying?" ct What makes you think I'm listening to Ron Paul? "What is it about "served in congress for decades" that makes you want to listen to someone and believe they know what they're talking about?" ct You have inferred what I have not implied. I didn't list that a qualification. I included it as an introduction. "Lots of people have. There are a ton of websites with all sorts of charts and graphs and analysis about what's going on and what will go on." ct Dandy. You're welcome to post links to the three you think most worthy of having a look (a different criterion than plausibility). |
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Hello xc.
Welcome to m2. I haven't checked the link yet, I hope to do so by Tuesday. Thanks for joining us. Visit often. Post a lot. |
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Ron Paul (R-TX) has served in congress for decades. He's now predicting an economic downturn worse than 2008. www.RonPaulMessage10.com |
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Topic:
no riots?
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tomato86 tomato86's photo Joined Sat 02/14/15 Posts: 1000 t8 !! Congrats on reaching quadruple digits here @mingle2. Well done. Keep 'em comin'. |
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"...seems you might have forgotten how much military equipment/supplies and just general little 'STUFF' we've shipped over to Saddam Hussein {pre Desert Storm}" 2A Nope. By "{pre Desert Storm}" I deduce you're referring to the U.S. military assistance to Iraq, to help battle the Iran / Iraq War to a bloody stalemate. Those arms shipments included Anthrax. But no. My assertion was never that Iraq / Saddam never had them. Instead, the fact is, after Blix & Ritter disarmed Saddam, whatever unauthorized weapons Saddam had had before Gen. Schwarzkopf dealt with Saddam, they were removed. And the reason we KNOW they were removed is because it's been over a decade. If we haven't found any by now; with all the snooping that's been done; it's a safe bet to consider that a proved negative. If a Saddam regime WMD stockpile is found, I'll retract this assertion, with sincere contrition. Don't hold your breath. The ONLY legitimate use of WMD I know of is national defense. IF Saddam had viable WMD, not blueprints in a bunker 50 miles into the desert outside Tekrit; but WMD in inventory, the time to have used them was while the U.S. was invading. By the time our forces were strutting around Baghdad, it was conspicuously obvious Saddam did NOT have the WMD President Bush fantasized about: "Time is not on our side. I will not wait on events while dangers gather. I will not stand by as peril draws closer and closer. The United States of America will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons." U.S. President Bush (the younger) in his State of the Union speech Jan. 29, 2002 "Threaten US" ?! They couldn't even defend themselves! "Threaten US" !!!  If the needless loss of human life weren't so horrific, it would be comical. ~4,500 U.S. military troops lost in Iraq, the expenditure of which has merely contributed to the severe geo-political destabilization of the region. The U.S. military invasion / occupation of Iraq was one of the worst, if not the worst U.S. military foreign policy blunders of all time. |
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Yes SS,
I'm a "card carrying Libertarian". Rand's pappy Ron got the '88 LP.org nomination. I've enthusiastically voted Libertarian, and was never more engaged with any candidate than Andre Marrou in 1992. But the "non-partisan" debate commission, which just by chance has ZERO 3rd party members on it; have set the threshold for admittance to candidate debates above what 3rd party candidates can achieve; effectively locking up the Washington political duopoly. A political candidate as good as Marrou would mop the floor with Dems & Reps. The following excerpted from U.S. Presidential candidate Libertarian Andre Marrou's 1992 stump speech.
The annual subsidy for each American dairy cow is between $600-$700 dollars a year. This is greater than the per capita income of half of the worlds population. And what do we get for that? We get a price for milk and other dairy products that's double the world's level. Who does this impinge on? Primarily poor people with children. Rich people could care less what the price of milk is. Poor people without children, they don't use much milk. It's the poor people with children who are primarily hurt by this. #1: Repeal the personal income tax, and abolish the IRS, sell the IRS buildings, release the tax protesters from prison, burn all the tax records, and declare a national holiday on April 15. #2: Expand free enterprise. We need more jobs, greater economic growth. #3: Restore gun ownership rights, we need to trust people and beware of government. #4: Limit Congressional terms, we need citizen statesmen, not professional politicians. #5: Bring our troops back home to defend the United States. ... Just bringing them home without reducing their numbers will save between $50 - $100 $B a year. #6: Enact the Fully Informed Jury Amendment. We need to try laws and defendants. #7: End all tax finance subsidies, including those for harmful drugs. #8: Stop hiring federal employees, let attrition cut the bureaucracy. ... 7% - 10% retire, resign, or die every year, after 4 years you've gotten rid of between 28% - 40% of the federal bureaucracy. You haven't hurt anybody, you haven't added to unemployment. But it does take a little bit of intelligence and a little bit of courage, so therefore it's not going to be done by the Democrats and Republicans. #9: Cease foreign aid, stop penalizing our workers. #10: Privatize education, charitize welfare, and allow a choice in all matters. ______________________________________________ In 1992 Libertarian candidate for U.S. President Andre Marrou included in his campaign stump speech: "Repeal the personal income tax, and abolish the IRS, sell the IRS buildings, release the tax protesters from prison, burn all the tax records, and declare a national holiday on April 15." Marrou Candidate Marrou was asked at a 1992 campaign fund-raiser how U.S. federal government could be funded if the IRS were actually abolished. Marrou responded: "... the income tax only brings in about a third of federal revenues. That leaves us two thirds to operate the government on. Now; the two thirds of the budget this year is equal to an entire budget how many years ago? Most people will guess like 1949, 1962. The answer is just 1985, seven years ago. All we have to do to get rid of the personal income tax is to get rid of the excessive government that the Democrats and Republicans have created during just the past seven years. It is that easy, it would be pretty easy to do. But as I've mentioned before it would require intelligence and courage. Now what do we ... operate the government on? The basic, original Constitution has 4 taxes in it that supported the government of the United States roughly until 1913, when the Democrats & Republicans gave us the income tax. We can utilize those taxes. I think they're called excises, tariffs, imposts, and duties. And that is what supported the government until then.” "... the United States is increasingly socialistic under the Democrats & Republicans. The Democrats are essentially left wing socialists. The Republicans are right wing socialists. How do you define socialism? More money to government, more power to government, more bureaucrats, and more regulations, and on and on ... . The federal government spends 25% of the Gross National Product. State, county, and local government spend another 22%. That's 47% of the Gross National Product of this country being spent by the government bureaucrats primarily on themselves. That leaves 53% in your pockets. You're the people who earn it. 47% vs 53%; how can we get your 53% up to 90%? One and only one way, we must reduce the 47% the government spends, down to 10%. That is the only way it can be done. Individual Liberty is diametrically opposed to governmental power. "We Libertarians clearly see that government power is opposed to individual Liberty. Increasingly the Democrats either want to mandate activity or prohibit activity. They either want to require you to do something you don't want to do, or prevent you from doing something you do want to do. The whole middle ground of individual choice combined with personal responsibility has been getting smaller and smaller. That middle ground is what we [Libertarians] want to expand. We want to allow you to do anything you want to do with your own life, provided you don't hurt or defraud anybody else." |
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Thanks again SS.
I don't know why he'd have said such thing. Perhaps he thought he was among friends, and could speak flippantly. I believe Graham was a JAG lawyer, perhaps simultaneous to his Senate career. This raises some questions. Any U.S. federal legislator that wants to be a $millionaire can quit congress and get a lobby job on K street. Graham knows that. So why would he hold two jobs? One as a U.S. military reservist, and another as a legislator? Could it be because he wants to earn his retirement legally and ethically? Could it be because he's so stupid he doesn't know his other options? Or perhaps he simply likes serving in these parallel tracks; making laws during the week, and executing on them on weekends. I'm no huge Graham fan. But I acknowledge it's possible the quoted statement was unfortunate, but also uncharacteristic. Don't know. But the ancient Latin legal maxim is: no reputation is a good reputation. I won't assume the worst about Graham, until I have an affirmative reason to. And that one quote is insufficient for that. |
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"when you are WRONG -" 2A About your gender? If I've made an error on anything of substance, I'll gladly address it. a) You make no great effort to make your gender known. And what little effort it would take from me to figure it out simply isn't worth my time. b) It doesn't take much effort, as I have demonstrated. Do you have any question of my gender? c) I would only have known your claim to gender if I'd checked your profile, and you have provided absolutely no incentive whatsoever for me to do so. To the contrary. I wouldn't waste my time. If you wish to propose the wording of an apology you believe I cyber-owe you, you're welcome to post it. If it fully meets 100% of my requirements, I'll cyber-sign it. IV, The fact that the Titanic sank does not diminish the pain of loss of the Lusitania. Bush made a mistake? Fine. But Bush LIED U.S. into War. Bush LIED!! "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt, that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." U.S. President Bush (the younger) televised address to the U.S. March 17th, 2003 That's an outright LIE !! How could it be possible to leave "no doubt" about something that simply isn't true? Bush lied. And ~4,500 of U.S. died. And before he left office, just for good measure, he brought upon U.S. the worst economic recession since the Great Depression. Bush pretended to be conservative, but implemented his own economic stimulus / rescue package; his $700 $Billion $Dollar $TARP. If U.S. President Bush (younger) is what the Republicans have to offer, I'll just keep voting Conservative, or Libertarian. |
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Topic:
For relationship
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Try this site's "Search" & "Match" functions.
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" then you clearly haven't EVER POSTED ON A POLITICAL FORUM BEFORE!" 2A : ) For many years, as member, as moderator, and as administrator. Evidently my standard of integrity is higher than yours. If I make a commitment, I abide by it. "there is a censor already established for the way vulgar words will be 'ALLOWED' to be typed ---" 2A Profanity filters can be evaded, as you have already demonstrated. |
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SS,
I don't know what McCain's standard of proof is. I know what mine is. proof (pr�f) noun Abbr. prf. The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true. * There's more to it than that. McCain REALLY wanted to be president. And all he had to do to get the job was to expose Obama as Nigerian born. Yet I saw video of McCain, during the heat of the campaign, with a campaign audience present, one one in the audience accused Obama of being foreign born. McCain interrupted her, and denied it. "No M'am" he said. That is the conduct of an honorable man. And thus the unproved dishonor attributed to him here would if true be the exception, not the rule. And in my experience, honorable people don't do that. We know McCain was tortured, and permanently injured. What proof is there that this torture and injury occurred AFTER this alleged misconduct? C7, On your Titanic point, it's perilous to attribute to a group tens of millions in size, a single motive. The U.S. electorate may be many things; but being an ideological monolith is surely not one of them. But I for one am tired of Democrats being labeled as profligate spenders, and Republicans being labeled good on defense. The most recent U.S. president to have consecutive years of ostensibly (1) balanced budgets was Clinton (D-AR). And as far as Republicans being good on defense, the worst terrorist attack on the U.S. homeland in all history took place during a Republican presidency. Making that worse; Bush (younger) then started an unnecessary War. And you know what the worst of it is? During the 8 years of that Bush administration, UBL killed about 3,000 innocent Americans. Not just a very bad man indeed, but number one on the FBI's ten most wanted list. But during those same 8 years, President Bush killed ~4,500 innocent Americans. Bush killed ~50% more Americans than the most wanted criminal on Earth. * Excerpted from The American Heritage� Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition � 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved. (1) albeit with fudging Social Security revenues Bush fudged Social Security revenues too; but ran consecutive deficits adding $Trillions to our $federal $debt |
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"so,the Mullahs only want Nukes because of that Libyan Clown?" C7 The perverse incentive C7 is, Quadaffy had WMD, and acquiesced into surrendering them, and then lost his reign, and his life because of it. That makes the message unambiguously clear: if you want to be let along, the way NATO leaves North Korea along, keep WMD if you have them, and get WMD if you don't. It's PRECISELY the opposite if the message we should be sending. |
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"it would appease your sensitive eyes"? 2A You may take me for a fool; but only to your own detriment sir. "This is an adult forum" 2A Not only that sir, it is a current events forum at a date site named "mingle2". Just what sort of woman do you hope to attract w/ potty-mouth? Bulldozer operators? "Get used to it because " 2A A word to the wise sir. The following is a brief reprise of the rules YOU HAVE ALREADY AGREED TO ABIDE BY: "... if you wish to participate in this forum, discussions must remain civil at ALL times. If you wish to have a reasoned discussion about politics, current events, etc., you may do so, but users who resort to insults or attacks as part of these discussions will be banned without notice. http://mingle2.com/topic/249154 If potty-mouth is more important than your membership here, you're on your own. But posting like that, at a date site is enormously self-defeating. And demonstrating yourself not true to your word is a sure way to scare off what few women might have otherwise considered you. "SUMMARY: Once again, Sen. John McCain faces false allegations " 2A Thank you. I was cyber-headed for Snopes on it. You've saved me the trouble. There's a standing invitation to ANYone willing to post proof of the character-assassinating allegations against Senator McCain. Perhaps McCain's character assassins are simply envious; that McCain acted heroically, and perhaps they did not. |
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"But you forget, the north already has nukes. We only rip countries apart they don't possess a deterant capability. Why do think we're no longer going to war with Iran? Because they have the capabity to resist." sn Painfully true. Worse: It provides a perverse incentive. After what we did to Malomar Quadaffy, NO WONDER Iran wants nukes! BTW, I'm skeptical about NK's nuclear warfare capability. The U.S. has a nuclear triad. If the enemy takes out our nuclear bombers (B1's & B2's) we've still got our missiles. And according to what I've read of it, ONE of our Minuteman nuclear missiles has more destructive power aboard than all the ordnance used in WWII, on ALL sides; including the nukes we dropped on Japan. If they take out our bombers and land-based missiles, we've still got our undetectable, unkillable nuclear powered, nuclear armed submarines. And the "christmas-tree farm" on a Trident submarine is a force to be reckoned with. It wouldn't surprise me if a preemptive nuclear strike on NK might neutralize their nuclear capability. I gather NK's deterrence is conventional artillery. It seems they could flatten Seoul before it could be evacuated. So Seoul SK is held hostage to the Kim Jong criminal dynasty. Isn't that just "special"! |
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"Confirmation bias" sn Indeed. Concisely stated sir. Political & fiscal conservatism are fine. But fanaticism can exact a hefty price. I honor our heritage. I often quote our 18th Century Founders. But I don't gallivant off to the store on horseback the way they did. I prefer my Chevy coup� or my Yamaha. Adopt a radical ideology, and heads fall from shoulders. |
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Thanks for the Sen. LG quotation SS.
Do you know on what date, and in what context he said it? If he was 17 years old, and he said it at a marijuana party, that's different from saying it earlier this week, from the Senate Floor. And thanks for the excellent cartoon. It makes a painfully sharp point. |
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ps
"Believe what you like, but I and many of the Nam vets I associate with on a weekly if not daily basis, will tend to disagree with you." SS That's fine SS. But you should be fully aware, your camaraderie, your esprit de corps may obscure the following: "What we mistake for thought may merely be the reinforcement of our own prejudice." Italo Benin PhD The fact remains, the criterion of truth is not popular agreement among a small, fanatical sub-group. |
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2A,
I sincerely appreciate your contribution, but not the coarse expression. Vulgar vocabulary is an inadequate substitute for forceful persuasion. Please consider a more elevated style of insult: "I am enclosing two tickets to the first night of my new play, bring a friend... if you have one." -- George Bernard Shaw to Winston Churchill "Cannot possibly attend first night, will attend second... if there is one." - Winston Churchill, in reply <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Lady Astor said to Churchill, "If you were my husband, I'd poison your tea." to which Churchill responded: "Madam, if I were your husband I would drink it." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John Wilkes (to the Earl of Sandwich): - Egad sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox. - Earl of Sandwich replied: - That will depend, my lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress. - * These attributes are often reprised, but probably not historically accurate. |
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I agree t8. Governor Palin is impressive eye-candy; but a terrible burden on the Republican's '08 ticket.
  "Romney lost because he couldn't shake the 'money man' moniker." t8 In computer parlance: "That's not a bug. It's a feature!" "The bubble economy looked a lot better in 2012 than it did in 2008 or now." t8 I've wondered whether a decisive (determinative) faction of the electorate thought Obama-nomics had the economy was on the mend, that it would continue to improve in the next 4 years (it has), and didn't want President Romney to claim the credit for it. "this country will not survive ... if we get another liberal jack a$$ ..." t8 You've reminded me: "You should buy stock in a business that's so good that even an idiot can run it, because sooner or later one will." Warren Buffett, CEO Berkshire Hathaway sn warned: "Jindal is an idiot. He's done more to destroy the economy in LA than the previous 10 governors. Now he's strutting around acting like he has a solution for the country. Believe it if you like but I'm here to let you all know it's bullsh*t. Jindal has destroyed the public health system, he's in the process of destroying higher education. The plan is to bankrupt certain departments, then when they can no longer function, bid them off, privatize them. How exactly can a state which produces so much oil and gas, has the largest tonnage port on the planet and has the offshore oil terminal which almost all imported oil comes through be do broke, year after year, since jindal has been governor?" sn Thanks sn. I'd have thought Jindal would have had broader support. I've obviously mis-assessed. Thanks for the insight. "I'd like to see Rand Paul, Huckabee, Carson, Santorum, Graham, Fiorina, Rubio, Bush, Walker and Jindal for the possible 10. And even though I hear Donald Trump is a 'possible'...I'm not taking him SERIOUSLY! Are any of you?" 2A Thanks for the list. I agree, Trump is a media glutton; not a candidate to be seriously considered. I wouldn't vote for an evangelical candidate like Huckabee or Santorum. They don't seem to be able to separate the Bible from the Constitution. Though iirc there were doubts about JFK's loyalty; questions about whether, as a Catholic, he'd follow the Constitution instead of the Pope. It doesn't appear to have been a problem. "In all 36 of his propaganda films he claimed the US was guilty of war crimes against humanity." SS Splendid. Can you prove, or even support with plausible evidence, that it was obtained without coercion? And why would the commies have gotten all they wanted from him, AND THEN tortured him? Your claim sir, in all candor, is not plausible. The Ockham's Razor explanation does not impeach McCain's character. |
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"We aren't the worlds parents or providers of paradise and equality to all." ciretom "American people are friends of Liberty everywhere, but custodians only of their own." John Adams My thanks to you two gents for getting it right. |
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