why when you ask a follower of Christ if they also follow all his teachings they never give and answer ...is it because they don't follow any of his teachings or even know what his teachings are, or is it that following his teachings isn't a requirement, this is why it just appears that people become Christians for no other reason but to stay out of Hell

No the reason i didn't answere this last night was cause i went to bed before you asked it. But to answere your original question, i try my best to follow jesus's teachings, yes i stumble at times and spend much time everyday asking for forgiveness and strenght not to fail him.

Cowboy...you make to many excuse why you don't follow the belief ...technically you are a Satanist, perhaps you may as well switch to that since you are practicing it anyway

We all stumble, keep praying, if its of any significance, just reading your answers and your faith is one of the many blessings and positive influences which helps me stay focused from day to day. We each touch others without knowing it, the best explanation is a good example and you seem to be setting one with most of your replies.

There are lots of arguments to prove the existence of a god. While I believe that these arguments point to the God of Abraham, others disagree.

You can find the arguments by googling:

Cosmological Argument
Teleological argument
anthropic argument
Moral Argument

don't know how these "arguments" that you list can "prove the existence of a god" but on another thread you say that "science can prove nothing". if such is the case, and you disregard science, how would these arguments go about proving the existence of god? not asking for proof, just interested in your argument or methodology without referring to science.

I can prove to you definitively whether there is or is not a God

unfortunately once you find out you won't be able to tell anyone else

eventually we all find out if there is a God or not

They don't scientifically prove the existence of a god, they logically prove the existence of a god. Science is based on hypothesis, not arguments. If you understand the context that I'm offering logical arguments for the existence of God (just like I said I was), then you would understand that when I said "prove" I didn't mean in the scientific sense that it proves it empirically, but in the logical sense that it proves that God can exist. Those arguments are called logical proofs, because they make it clear that God can logically exist and God best fits the available data.

ah got it. yes it's possible that god CAN exist as is the case with everything especially when like me, one thinks that nothing is impossible. but i read the op's question as asking if anybody can prove to him that god DOES exist. he did not ask if it's possible or logical that god CAN exist. so in that regard, how do your arguments prove that god DOES indeed exist? explain how "god best fits the available data" and of course what data it is that you are referring to.

Logic is similar to science in some ways. Einstein's Theory of Relativity isn't proven. It can't be proven. But because it seems to always be right and there are no competing theories, it's accepted and used by scientists. Similarly, if no logical argument exists that better explains a phenomena, then the conclusion of the logical argument should be accepted. For instance, how do you know you exist? It was immortalized in the logical argument "I think, therefore I am". Until a better argument comes along, it's pretty safe to assume that's true. Until there is a series of logical arguments that more completely explains the universe, morality or the human experience, the conclusions of the arguments I posted should be accepted. It would actually be irrational to admit that those logical arguments best describe the universe, but then reject the conclusions drawn from the arguments. It's as close as the OP is going to get. Nothing is ever proven through science or logic, in the sense that the conclusion is absolutely correct and inescapable.



Google the arguments and read them yourself.

we've already agreed on this. we both know that god cannot be proven scientifically or logically. so this agreement among us would not be applicable to the op's question asking for proof of god would it?





lol. ah, now there's a debate tactic i've never seen before. when you're having trouble producing data that supports your position simply demand that your debate opponent produce it for you. and google is your reference. well, we did say we'd leave science out of the discussion didn't we? nah, i'll just assume that god fits no available data at all after decades of experience hearing about such data from christians who never actually come through by producing such data.

AMEN!

Reality is we will never find out if there is a God or not because once we are dead everything is finished and we feel nothing .

when someon dies is when everyone will know if there is a God or not, but i would lean them knowing there is a God once they talk with Jesus.

the first three arguments do not prove the existence of God, if anything they prove that energy needs a way to be displaced, a god that wants for naught would have no "need" to displace any form of energy, or would have a need to create any or anything, a god "that has a need" only proves that it's not a God

the moral argument disproves itself since God himself is not moral because he himself do not even follow the laws he supposedly handed down to Man...

Well, we did get a little off-topic, I know, my fault.

There really is no 'sceintific' proof of any spiritual existance, including any deity.

However, Spider has produced some philisophical points, although these too have been argued in the same vein - that is, philisophically.

The only thing we can all agree on is that morality seems to be an intrinsic part of all religions. Of course that doesn't mean that all of humanity can even agree of point of morality, but there is much common ground between them all which are logical enough to extend to non-believers as well.

Thanks very much CowboyGH for following off-topic to respond to my questions.

You all play nice now - as for you funches, have you ever stopped to consider what values you personally hold which are common to someone or some others you are communicating with?

Just a suggestion, think about beginning a discussion by finding what you have in common with any particular believer and from there examine why and how your paths diverge. You really make some good points but sometimes the delivery makes them less well received. BUT you are getting better, much more thoughtful.

But then we've been here long enough that we should have leaned something, at least I hope I have.

See you all in other threads.

God cannot be proven anymore than the Big Bang. We believe what we believe. We started somewhere, somehow, and we may die without ever learning the truth or we may die and be delivered straight into it. Noone alive will ever be able to prove it, thats why faith is so beautiful and rare.

yep..I value eating food, drinking water and taking dumps and I assuming that everyone else has those same values

the difference being that nobody in his right mind who is looking at the big bang believes it. no scientists believes anything to be absolutely true. science keeps completely open to any possibilities and is ready to test evidence that is proferred for god, the afterlife, the big bang or any other phenomena. we have evidence that we can test for the big bang and evolution so we continue to test it. the reason we continue to test it after all these years is that we've no reason to believe that it will not fail the next test. but the religious minded believing that god is fact cannot seem to imagine testing this "fact". they have faith in the fact and will not dare test it. their dogma actually forbids such testing or questioning. they must believe or else.

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I disagree... many people believe the big bang. It is taught in schools around the country as evolution. The evolution vs creation debate has been around for a while. Some believe one side , others believe the others. I tend to believe in both,, that God Created us to be able to evolve.