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Topic: can anybody prove to me a GOD??
Peter_Pan69 Joined Sun 08/23/09 Posts: 2781	Mon 06/07/10 02:09 PM
There's only one issue that needs to be address in this story. The whole basis and premise of the story is that mankind's fall from grace is what brought imperfections and death into the world. I keep hearing this, but where does it say that in the Bible?

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Mon 06/07/10 02:13 PM
IF man and dinosaur did not live together, it wouldnt refute the fact that this book describes the creatures before science ever discovered them,,,which is pretty clear indication to a believer,, that there is much more to the book then mere 'fables' and 'myths'. Well, IMHO, it's an extreme stretch to even claim that the book of Job is actually describing dinosaurs to begin with. It clearly desribes a FIRE-BREATING dragon, which is precisely the kind of thing you'd expect to read about in an ancient fable. Besides, the Book of Job is extremely problematic on many levels. This book has Satan going to God and asking God permission to be mean to Job. So here we have this fallen angel actually obediently asking God for Permission to do his dirty work. So the book of Job conflicts with the whole notion that Satan does his dirty work on his own anyway. It's a book that actually flies in the face of the Biblical story to begin with. It also has God condoning Satan's behavior and granting his permission for Satan to slaughter Job's entire family. And Job is supposes to be a completely rigtheous person who had always had complete faith in God. All that book shows is that even Good people cannot TRUST God to be nice to them. It just shows that God is untrustworthy and cannot be depended upon. He'll even give Satan permission to do EVIL things! The book of Job does not paint God out to be a nice deity at all. Once again, if the fables are true, then our creator is a real demon in his own right. Even decent people like Job can't place their trust in God. God will sic the devil on them in a heartbeat. I've always felt that Job has got to be one of the worst stories in the Bible and I'm actually shocked that the people who chose which stories to include allowed that one to get in. Along with the story of the flood too, I guess. All I can say, is that if any of these stories are true our creator is himself an untrustworthy demon. So let's all hope that these stories are indeed nothing more than stupid fallacies and quit teaching our innocent children such utterly absurd nonsense. who said God was a nice deity? God is a vengeful God in the end of times. It's not all pretty flowers m8. It's life. You're not going to sit there and tell me from a worldly point of view a good dad is a nice dad are you? No it's a dad that shows love, but also disciplines the child for misbehaving. I am glad my dad did,,,,

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 06/07/10 02:15 PM
IF man and dinosaur did not live together, it wouldnt refute the fact that this book describes the creatures before science ever discovered them,,,which is pretty clear indication to a believer,, that there is much more to the book then mere 'fables' and 'myths'. Well, IMHO, it's an extreme stretch to even claim that the book of Job is actually describing dinosaurs to begin with. It clearly desribes a FIRE-BREATING dragon, which is precisely the kind of thing you'd expect to read about in an ancient fable. Besides, the Book of Job is extremely problematic on many levels. This book has Satan going to God and asking God permission to be mean to Job. So here we have this fallen angel actually obediently asking God for Permission to do his dirty work. So the book of Job conflicts with the whole notion that Satan does his dirty work on his own anyway. It's a book that actually flies in the face of the Biblical story to begin with. It also has God condoning Satan's behavior and granting his permission for Satan to slaughter Job's entire family. And Job is supposes to be a completely rigtheous person who had always had complete faith in God. All that book shows is that even Good people cannot TRUST God to be nice to them. It just shows that God is untrustworthy and cannot be depended upon. He'll even give Satan permission to do EVIL things! The book of Job does not paint God out to be a nice deity at all. Once again, if the fables are true, then our creator is a real demon in his own right. Even decent people like Job can't place their trust in God. God will sic the devil on them in a heartbeat. I've always felt that Job has got to be one of the worst stories in the Bible and I'm actually shocked that the people who chose which stories to include allowed that one to get in. Along with the story of the flood too, I guess. All I can say, is that if any of these stories are true our creator is himself an untrustworthy demon. So let's all hope that these stories are indeed nothing more than stupid fallacies and quit teaching our innocent children such utterly absurd nonsense. who said God was a nice deity? God is a vengeful God in the end of times. It's not all pretty flowers m8. It's life. You're not going to sit there and tell me from a worldly point of view a good dad is a nice dad are you? No it's a dad that shows love, but also disciplines the child for misbehaving. I am glad my dad did,,,, yes because without discipline you have anarchy

Peccy Joined Thu 06/28/07 Posts: 17181	Mon 06/07/10 03:03 PM
Isn't religion when you strip away all the fluff basically a dictatorship? Or those with multiple deities an oligarchy?

massagetrade Joined Thu 02/22/07 Posts: 8505	Mon 06/07/10 03:11 PM
well, there are two extremes,, one can believe science backs up everything in the bible or that it backs up nothing I think personally, both are illogical and irrational reaches to support personal views Very true, but I don't see anyone arguing the second position - simply that there are many things which are not supported. The first position is argued by that web page, so I see the webpage as foolish and irresponsible. IF man and dinosaur did not live together, it wouldnt refute the fact that this book describes the creatures before science ever discovered them,,,which is pretty clear indication to a believer,, that there is much more to the book then mere 'fables' and 'myths'. You mean: there might also coincidence, and/or knowledge from oral traditions?

massagetrade Joined Thu 02/22/07 Posts: 8505	Mon 06/07/10 03:19 PM
AdventureBegins wrote: You have a point. Therefore by your own reasoning God is a theory. Worse God is a theory that has been built by thousands of individuals building structure upon an unproven premise submitted by successive generations of other individuals 'guessing' at 'reality'. Well said, and I especially appreciate this since your previous posts suggest that God is a part of your life. ------- Occasionally I meet people who say they are Christian, who have excellent values, who accept Jesus as their Saviour and who are simply not concerned about the 'accuracy' of the Bible - nor do they ally themselves with any church or religious group. Their personal relationship with God is everything to them, but they can admit that the Bible was written by humans, that the books were hand picked for inclusion by a committee. They say that it doesn't matter whether the stories are true or not - it doesn't change their relationship with God.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Mon 06/07/10 05:03 PM
well, there are two extremes,, one can believe science backs up everything in the bible or that it backs up nothing I think personally, both are illogical and irrational reaches to support personal views Very true, but I don't see anyone arguing the second position - simply that there are many things which are not supported. The first position is argued by that web page, so I see the webpage as foolish and irresponsible. IF man and dinosaur did not live together, it wouldnt refute the fact that this book describes the creatures before science ever discovered them,,,which is pretty clear indication to a believer,, that there is much more to the book then mere 'fables' and 'myths'. You mean: there might also coincidence, and/or knowledge from oral traditions? actually, the post was made that it was 'not the LEAST bit scientificallty accurate' and the first sentence 'The Bible is not a science book, yet it is scientifically accurate. We are not aware of any scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible.' which is different than saying science SUPPORTS everything in the bible,,, If I say I am not aware of my brother smoking,, it wouldnt be the same as saying my brother doesnt smoke (at least not to me,,but I am sure many who dont pay much attention to semantics might take it that way)

CYCLOPS Joined Wed 04/18/07 Posts: 203	Mon 06/07/10 06:34 PM
With Job. Job was a decent man but became outside of trusting God. He trusted in things and not God. Those children and things were not a rightousness. Job was tried by fire and stood fast his faith and corrected his trust as God made shut the mouth of Satan of him. In the end Job was given much more than he had...both in faith and trust......also in things and children. Without fire nothing can be made pure. "Without adversity there is no true testing of the heart, spirit and soul!" ,CYCLOPS

Inkracer Joined Tue 12/16/08 Posts: 881	Mon 06/07/10 06:58 PM
actually, the post was made that it was 'not the LEAST bit scientificallty accurate' and the first sentence 'The Bible is not a science book, yet it is scientifically accurate. We are not aware of any scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible.' which is different than saying science SUPPORTS everything in the bible,,, If I say I am not aware of my brother smoking,, it wouldnt be the same as saying my brother doesnt smoke (at least not to me,,but I am sure many who dont pay much attention to semantics might take it that way) Really? You aren't aware of the Scientific Evidence that contradicts the bible? You obviously aren't reading many of the posts then.

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Mon 06/07/10 07:00 PM
With Job. Job was a decent man but became outside of trusting God. He trusted in things and not God. Those children and things were not a rightousness. Job was tried by fire and stood fast his faith and corrected his trust as God made shut the mouth of Satan of him. In the end Job was given much more than he had...both in faith and trust......also in things and children. Without fire nothing can be made pure. "Without adversity there is no true testing of the heart, spirit and soul!" ,CYCLOPS That makes no sense at all. There's a huge difference between adversity and having your creator betray your trust. There is no reason for God to test anyone's faith. Supposedly this God already knows what's in the hearts of men. So the very idea that he would need to test a man is ludicuous. Many people say that Job is about God proving something to Satan. But again, a God that has something to prove to a fallen angel is also a pathetic God. There is no excuse for the behavior of the God described by the book of Job. Moreover, at the end, the very reason that the author of the story has God telling Job about having created dragons is that the author is trying to convince the reader that God is all-wise and all-intelligent. So much so that he can create things that men can't even deal with. But as a reader, that just backfired with me. I wise God wouldn't be creating fire-breathing dragons in the first place. There's nothing wise about that. These stories are like the three little pigs. They make nice fairytales for little childern, but as a description of a genuine all-wise fatherly God they fall flat on their face. There's just nothing wise about these stories at all. This also suggests that Job's family was slaughtered just to make a point to Job. What about the souls of those people, don't they count? It's just an utterly stupid story IMHO, and doesn't even portray a picture of an all-wise God at all. On the contrary, it portrays a really stupid God. It didn't impress me in the least. I personally think it's one of the stupidest stories in the Bible, although there are so many stupid stories that it's hard to pick the stupidest.

CYCLOPS Joined Wed 04/18/07 Posts: 203	Mon 06/07/10 07:25 PM
There is much you lack in knowing the subject to get a true picture. No insult. It is like adding up the whole numbers and getting an answer.......wrong answer because you don't know about the fractions in the equation. Let me say....if you knew more....more would become clear. That calls for study in the right frame of mind. The Bible is a simplicity within a complexity.....the complexity is cause by human nature over ruling a sound thinking....blinding it. If a man looks the room over fast for all the blue things in the room....he willnot see the brown, green, red,...etc..things. In my study I look at all colors and all sides to come to my understandings....the Bible interpets itself. It is not a simple thing to one thing while looking for another. Peace!

CYCLOPS Joined Wed 04/18/07 Posts: 203	Mon 06/07/10 07:37 PM
With Job. Job was a decent man but became outside of trusting God. He trusted in things and not God. Those children and things were not a rightousness. Job was tried by fire and stood fast his faith and corrected his trust as God made shut the mouth of Satan of him. In the end Job was given much more than he had...both in faith and trust......also in things and children. Without fire nothing can be made pure. "Without adversity there is no true testing of the heart, spirit and soul!" ,CYCLOPS That makes no sense at all. There's a huge difference between adversity and having your creator betray your trust. There is no reason for God to test anyone's faith. Supposedly this God already knows what's in the hearts of men. So the very idea that he would need to test a man is ludicuous. Many people say that Job is about God proving something to Satan. But again, a God that has something to prove to a fallen angel is also a pathetic God. There is no excuse for the behavior of the God described by the book of Job. Moreover, at the end, the very reason that the author of the story has God telling Job about having created dragons is that the author is trying to convince the reader that God is all-wise and all-intelligent. So much so that he can create things that men can't even deal with. But as a reader, that just backfired with me. I wise God wouldn't be creating fire-breathing dragons in the first place. There's nothing wise about that. These stories are like the three little pigs. They make nice fairytales for little childern, but as a description of a genuine all-wise fatherly God they fall flat on their face. There's just nothing wise about these stories at all. This also suggests that Job's family was slaughtered just to make a point to Job. What about the souls of those people, don't they count? It's just an utterly stupid story IMHO, and doesn't even portray a picture of an all-wise God at all. On the contrary, it portrays a really stupid God. It didn't impress me in the least. I personally think it's one of the stupidest stories in the Bible, although there are so many stupid stories that it's hard to pick the stupidest. Buy you a KJ and a Large print Strong's....learn to use the Strong's it will help you clear up many things like dragons in job....not dragons as dragons but the word means beast....leviatians are crocks and aligators. Strong's is a reference book and NO it was not formed to support a belief. Look at one...see what it is about..... I got amazed when a preacher preached that the unicorns didn't make it onto the ark. It is a wild oxen! One must go to the scriptures to correct many ideas that made its waty to the KJ and others. But In the scriptures there are no errors.

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Mon 06/07/10 08:09 PM
There is much you lack in knowing the subject to get a true picture. No insult. It is like adding up the whole numbers and getting an answer.......wrong answer because you don't know about the fractions in the equation. Let me say....if you knew more....more would become clear. That calls for study in the right frame of mind. The Bible is a simplicity within a complexity.....the complexity is cause by human nature over ruling a sound thinking....blinding it. If a man looks the room over fast for all the blue things in the room....he willnot see the brown, green, red,...etc..things. In my study I look at all colors and all sides to come to my understandings....the Bible interpets itself. It is not a simple thing to one thing while looking for another. Peace! This very idea that you need to tell people how to find God is a ludicous idea to begin with. It implies that God is lame and needs your help. By your very actions, you're displaying a total lack of faith in God. If you truly TRUSTED God then you would know that no deserving soul could possibly slip through her fingers, and she most certainly doesn't need YOUR help to save anyone. This idea that Christians need to help God save souls is nothing more than a blatant display of just how inept they truly believe God to be.

CYCLOPS Joined Wed 04/18/07 Posts: 203	Mon 06/07/10 08:23 PM
There is much you lack in knowing the subject to get a true picture. No insult. It is like adding up the whole numbers and getting an answer.......wrong answer because you don't know about the fractions in the equation. Let me say....if you knew more....more would become clear. That calls for study in the right frame of mind. The Bible is a simplicity within a complexity.....the complexity is cause by human nature over ruling a sound thinking....blinding it. If a man looks the room over fast for all the blue things in the room....he willnot see the brown, green, red,...etc..things. In my study I look at all colors and all sides to come to my understandings....the Bible interpets itself. It is not a simple thing to one thing while looking for another. Peace! This very idea that you need to tell people how to find God is a ludicous idea to begin with. It implies that God is lame and needs your help. By your very actions, you're displaying a total lack of faith in God. If you truly TRUSTED God then you would know that no deserving soul could possibly slip through her fingers, and she most certainly doesn't need YOUR help to save anyone. This idea that Christians need to help God save souls is nothing more than a blatant display of just how inept they truly believe God to be. Read the Bible! We are commanded to do so in writing my friend! Unsound once again without knowledge. Peace! I retire!

Inkracer Joined Tue 12/16/08 Posts: 881	Mon 06/07/10 08:32 PM
Read the Bible! We are commanded to do so in writing my friend! Unsound once again without knowledge. Peace! I retire! Well, of course it's gonna be in the "holy" book that you must read it. That is the only way to increase the number of sheeple. The one thing that you are missing here, though, is a great number of non-religious, and/or non-christians HAVE read the bible, and know a great deal more about it than their christian counterparts. And they still haven't "found jeebus".

Peccy Joined Thu 06/28/07 Posts: 17181	Mon 06/07/10 08:58 PM
lol.....sheeple..........one can learn so much in this forum!

Ladylid2012 Joined Sun 07/05/09 Posts: 42269	Mon 06/07/10 09:05 PM
lol.....sheeple..........one can learn so much in this forum! Some seem to think were all born with the sheep mentality....

Peccy Joined Thu 06/28/07 Posts: 17181	Mon 06/07/10 09:11 PM
lol.....sheeple..........one can learn so much in this forum! Some seem to think were all born with the sheep mentality.... I know what sheeple are, just never heard it said in this forum.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 06/07/10 09:16 PM
I went to a church here in town and I did not like being referred to as the preacher's "flock." They call Jesus the Sheppard and his followers the flock. This church actually refereed to the people who came as their flock. It just made me feel like so much live stock.

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Mon 06/07/10 09:21 PM < continued at this topic > < last part of this topic is here >
Read the Bible! We are commanded to do so in writing my friend! Unsound once again without knowledge. Peace! I retire! I'm well aware of what those idiots wrote in the Bible. Of course they want you to spew their crap! Some of the authors of the Bible would have you murdering heathens, their wives, and children! The point is that any REAL GOD wouldn't need your help to save souls. Thus the mere fact that these idiots who wrote the Bible requested your help in spreading THEIR WORDS should blatantly show you that this book is NOT from any God. You worship the authors of a book my friend. And obviously you'll do anything they instruct you to do without even questioning it. That's pretty scary. That's the kind of mentality that caused things like the witch burnings and crusades. People don't stop and think about WHO'S really writing this stuff! They have just brainwashed themselves to believe that it's all the "WORD OF GOD". But what God would need YOUR HELP to save souls? Only a seriously inept God would need help with that.