that is in the old testiment, that only applys to people before the second coming of Christ. Alot of things changed after Jesus came to the earth.

And it's not exactly to "prove" to the devil God is greater. It's kind of a selfish action doin God's will if you may look at it like that. Doing God's will saves you from perishing with the devil. But gives you ever lasting life.

I need to ask you a serious question or three. Are you your fathers deeds? If your father was Hitler should we try you for his crimes?

Or we could look at it another way, if you are your fathers deeds, should we not all be God's deeds?

Then there's the question, which actually applies mostly to Christians - Did Jesus not say that good works will not get you into heaven, that only by faith alone will you enter.

So why would you think that any deed you do has any bearing on your eternal existence. For it is not deed that is in question but your faith and whether you have seen the error of your way and repented.

So where does the devil come in? But most of all why was all humanity tried and found guilty on the basis of two people - the only two people actually created by the hand of God?????

What does that say about his Fatherly skills?

Question - did Jesus say - I did not come to change the law but to fulfill it? Can you point to ANY scripture, in the Bible or any other Judeo-Christian scriptures where Jesus said the old laws were no longer valid?

Cowboy ..so are you saying that The Ten Commandements doesn't apply to Christians....

God is all.

Therefore the god is also what you term the devil.

I live life.

God does not need to be uplifted.

I am sure god would prefere that we be uplifted.

I need to ask you a serious question or three. Are you your fathers deeds? If your father was Hitler should we try you for his crimes?

Or we could look at it another way, if you are your fathers deeds, should we not all be God's deeds?

Then there's the question, which actually applies mostly to Christians - Did Jesus not say that good works will not get you into heaven, that only by faith alone will you enter.

So why would you think that any deed you do has any bearing on your eternal existence. For it is not deed that is in question but your faith and whether you have seen the error of your way and repented.

So where does the devil come in? But most of all why was all humanity tried and found guilty on the basis of two people - the only two people actually created by the hand of God?????

What does that say about his Fatherly skills?


thank you, all very good questions. Yes he did tells us that faith alone will get us into heaven no just good works. But he also tells us to love one another, to forgive others as your father forgives you, and Gave us 10 commandments to live by among many other things in the bible. But you also have take into consideration, we will be judged on our lives and how we lived them. And i notticed you said repented, do you know what the meens? Repenting from a sin meens to never do it again. And it has to be done this way because if you don't repent from whatever you did and ask for forgiveness of it after each time you do it, you asking for forgiveness is in vein and isn't meeningful. And for you lasst comment the devil was who tempted adam and eve into eating of the fruit of life.

Cowboy..."JOB" was an example of how little people meant to God that he would wipe out an entire Man's family just to prove a point to Satan

He did fulfill the law, he did not change it. He fullfilled the law of the old testiment, and gave us new ones. In the old testiment you'll nottice sacrificeing animals and things of that nature was how we were forgiven for our sins, and now we don't have to and is why Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.

the 10 commandments can be found in the new testiment as well.

in the old testiment there was no hell, people were punished for what they do bad here on earth in there lives. Now we are punished in our after lives.

so can the teachings of Jesus...do you follow all of those?

Wow I'm on a role - another question.

What was the purpose of the Old Covenant being combined with the Bible if the old laws were invalidated?


Before I catch Heck from the newby's here let me say that I believe the Bible as well as many other higly held manuscripts of spiritual content have quite a bit to offer. They often offer insights to history that we can get from no other source. And they gave us the first real groupings of moral standards. Often the "laws" of such scriptures protected the lifes of poeple, and some even convinced people to be at peace with their lot in life - no matter how dreadful and existence it could be.

But religious fundamentalism is just like many other isms - they are created in the mind and they created divisions withing humanity. Nationalism, raceism, Imperialism - well you get the picture.

Sift through it all, let the good things support your faith and let the rest go. If you believe in the good, if you follow a course of humanism - it just doesn't seem likely that any Father could find fault in such a heart.

so that makes it ok to kill "JOB" entire famly

I need to ask you a serious question or three. Are you your fathers deeds? If your father was Hitler should we try you for his crimes?

Or we could look at it another way, if you are your fathers deeds, should we not all be God's deeds?

Then there's the question, which actually applies mostly to Christians - Did Jesus not say that good works will not get you into heaven, that only by faith alone will you enter.

So why would you think that any deed you do has any bearing on your eternal existence. For it is not deed that is in question but your faith and whether you have seen the error of your way and repented.

So where does the devil come in? But most of all why was all humanity tried and found guilty on the basis of two people - the only two people actually created by the hand of God?????

What does that say about his Fatherly skills?


thank you, all very good questions. Yes he did tells us that faith alone will get us into heaven no just good works. But he also tells us to love one another, to forgive others as your father forgives you, and Gave us 10 commandments to live by among many other things in the bible. But you also have take into consideration, we will be judged on our lives and how we lived them. And i notticed you said repented, do you know what the meens? Repenting from a sin meens to never do it again. And it has to be done this way because if you don't repent from whatever you did and ask for forgiveness of it after each time you do it, you asking for forgiveness is in vein and isn't meeningful. And for you lasst comment the devil was who tempted adam and eve into eating of the fruit of life.


Here's a good example of what I just posted. The good part is that you have learned the merit of forgiveness and that only through love can we find the strength to forgive.

Here is the bad part - Why is that bad - because it's inconsistent, it makes no sense. Your father has not forgiven you - in fact you have only been judged by the sins of the first man and woman.

Was this action suppose to be mean -do as I say, and not as I do - kind of thing? If we learn from our parents, what does the story of Adam and Eve tell us? If your child does something you tell them not to do you should cast them out and forever more hold their seed responsible??????

thank you, all very good questions. Yes he did tells us that faith alone will get us into heaven no just good works. But he also tells us to love one another, to forgive others as your father forgives you, and Gave us 10 commandments to live by among many other things in the bible. But you also have take into consideration, we will be judged on our lives and how we lived them. And i notticed you said repented, do you know what the meens? Repenting from a sin meens to never do it again. And it has to be done this way because if you don't repent from whatever you did and ask for forgiveness of it after each time you do it, you asking for forgiveness is in vein and isn't meeningful. And for you lasst comment the devil was who tempted adam and eve into eating of the fruit of life.


Here's a good example of what I just posted. The good part is that you have learned the merit of forgiveness and that only through love can we find the strength to forgive.

Here is the bad part - Why is that bad - because it's inconsistent, it makes no sense. Your father has not forgiven you - in fact you have only been judged by the sins of the first man and woman.

Was this action suppose to be mean -do as I say, and not as I do - kind of thing? If we learn from our parents, what does the story of Adam and Eve tell us? If your child does something you tell them not to do you should cast them out and forever more hold their seed responsible??????



but you are takeing it out of context. Our father forgives us if we seek it. Wipes it entirely clean as if we never did it. But along with asking for forgiveness is the need to repent from whatever it is you asked for forgiveness for in the first place. Because if we don't repent, then we're just asking for forgiveness in vein and don't really want it. And what i said about forgiving otehrs as our father forgives us is not bad. And no we are not just judged on the sins of the first man and woman. Cause if that were so, we would all be guilty and go to hell. We are judged on the actions we have done in our lives. God told adam and eve not to eat of the fruit and they did, how is that different from God telling us not to lie and we do. We will be judged on how well we listened to our father.

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He did fulfill the law, he did not change it. He fullfilled the law of the old testiment, and gave us new ones. In the old testiment you'll nottice sacrificeing animals and things of that nature was how we were forgiven for our sins, and now we don't have to and is why Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.


That's what you've been told - where does it say in the Bible? Have ever asked to be shown?

Believe me I'm not trying to talk you out of your faith, I'm only trying to have you think for yourself not just based on what others tell you.

We just had to read a short book for history class - it was written in 1959 - only 50 years ago. While the book holds some very valid information most of the worth in the writing is lost if you don't understand the period in which it was written.

Now 50 years is not that long, and I'm the oldest student in the class - I was born in 1955. I HAD TO LOOK STUFF UP.

Do you really imagine that a book survived many thousands of generations without being misunderstood, misinterpreted, and even changed as society became more modernized?

The book I read is every bit as pertinant today as it was when written becasue the morals, the philosophy is the same even if many of the suggestions are out of date.

The Bible is like that - there are many good things it has to offer and many things that only serve to divide humanity and segregate nations.

At some point people have to decide for themselves whether their faith will become a place for discrimination and segregation to fester or whether that faith will allow for a peaceful coexistence between your faith and consience and you fellow man.

No it has not changed with sociaty. The bible we have today is the same things that was written in it thousands of years ago.

So Adam and Eve went to hell? That's what you have inferred. Must mean hell is this existence here on Earth, outside the Garden becasue the Garden was eternal life - until they failed the first test.

What's with the multitude of tests? Why are some given so many while others are given so few? If all hearts are judged on the exact same criteria, shouldn't the tests be exactly the same? Or manybe it is the judgement that is differnt - kinda like grading on a curve? You think?



No adam and eve did not go to hell. There punishment was the same we have now, bareing children, hunger, and basically pain of any sort. Anything that goes against what the bible tells us to do or not to do is wrong. For instance the bible tells us to love one another, how can we consider ourselves loving on another if we're cussing out our neighbor for playing his music to loud? Loveing someone also comes with forgiveness of there transgressions. And everyone does have the exact test, we have to keep to the laws in the bible through our lives. And will be tempted to stray through out our lives. And no the is no curve to the grading, it's all equal.

So Adam and Eve went to hell? That's what you have inferred. Must mean hell is this existence here on Earth, outside the Garden becasue the Garden was eternal life - until they failed the first test.

What's with the multitude of tests? Why are some given so many while others are given so few? If all hearts are judged on the exact same criteria, shouldn't the tests be exactly the same? Or manybe it is the judgement that is differnt - kinda like grading on a curve? You think?



No adam and eve did not go to hell. There punishment was the same we have now, bareing children, hunger, and basically pain of any sort. Anything that goes against what the bible tells us to do or not to do is wrong. For instance the bible tells us to love one another, how can we consider ourselves loving on another if we're cussing out our neighbor for playing his music to loud? Loveing someone also comes with forgiveness of there transgressions. And everyone does have the exact test, we have to keep to the laws in the bible through our lives. And will be tempted to stray through out our lives. And no the is no curve to the grading, it's all equal.


that is one of the things that changed after jesus came to earth. Before we were punished on earth for the things we did or didn't do, now we're forgiven our transgressions because Jesus came to earth to die for us. Now all we have to do is believe jeuss came to earth for us and try our best not to sin and uplift his name.