IMO- all the attempts to explain in are simply gobbledygook. Be rational. And I noticed that not one person who believes responded to the old "Why won't God heal amputees?" Are they any less than a normal person. Do they not deserve the same treatment.

I'm not saying there isn't an all powerful being, but if there is what makes us think that it cares about us? Because we as humans need something to believe in? If that's the case we can simply worship a fork. Certainly the fork has done more that can be proven in it's actions seen daily more than any God has.

Miles, reread the articles....from beginning to end.

who can understand the most sophisticated computer on earth? Our Brain. Did it just pop out of a cracker jack box? Oh I have a brain. Logic says we were created by something that is beyond our imagination. And it was done thousands of years ago. Explain that/ Shalom..Miles

the simple fact that God loves us.

Wow, what a great thread. Looking at all the terrific people who have posted here, I can't help but smile and think, "nice to talk with friends."

I love the way you all have so much heart, and you know something, I don't care what you believe, becasue I BELIEVE not one of you would ever, knowingly, cause harm to any creature.

In fact, I felt quite comfortable stopping in and hearing all your voices.

Time for bed, another long day tomorrow, and a long 'packed' week is coming my way. You all be well, I'll be back in a week or so. Don't forget me!

Peccy, what you are referring to is known as a CREATIVE Miracle.
And God HAS done creative miracles.

Look up some of AA ALLen and RW Shambach's early revivals.MANY creative miraces took place in both their tent revival services..

If one has Faith to Believe,one can receive.
God can and will move on behalf of ones faith...... but a creative miracle usually serves a higher purpose; and usually that purpose is to move the multitudes to belief and faith in God .

So Peccy.... you asked, "is God able to heal an amputee"?

That's a creative miracle..and the bible says, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, and should say to that mountain ....be thou removed and cast in to the sea, and should not doubt, but beleive in your heart, you shall have whatsoever you say.

Wow.
Pretty powerful words, wouldbn't you say, peccy?
But faith just doesn't happen ,Peccy.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Let me ask you a question, Peccy.
Do you have faith to believe for a million dollars to drop in your lap right now?

No... most likely not....right?
You may HOPE , but you don't have faith for thatto happen, most likely.

Same when some people pray.
People may HOPE and pray, but don't Have FAITH to BELIEVE when they pray.

God created the world...that's a creative miracle..yes?
God is the same yesterday, today, and forever...right?
So if God is the same, what's missing on our end.....

It's like you have an electic outlet and the electricity is on....but until you plug into the outlet, nothing happens.
The power is on and flowing right?
Yet the electrical power won't do one any good, unless one plugs into the power.

Think maybe the same goes for some of us praying for sometyhing?
Could it be , we haven't really plugged into the source of power, then we blame God...when the actual problem is on the RECEIVING end?

(typing a mile a minute...have to run..please excuse all the typos and good nite to all)

Morning star.


I still do not agree with any kind of assumption or relaying that this may be the reason Yahweh has not answered a prayer. yahweh can do whatever he wants.Saul went mad and had a Donkey talk to him. The guy on the road who had been robbed was passed by by who should of helped him ,instead a sameritain did. Who was Yahweh pleased with, the believer or the non believer. We have been duked into believing that when the Holy Spirit came and we were told we would not be taught by man but by Elohim that is not true. I will tell u it is true. Anyone with a willing heart can understand any of the scriptures.We are told to be ready to answer every man. How many in a congregation can do that to someone versed in the scriptures? Yahweh heals Heathons. In his own wisdom who cuss him.And he lets the rightous die. Why? The rightous should be ready for anything. We have the old testament done away. try telling your preacher that Tithing is in the old Testament and thier is no need? Learn the scriptures for yourself. Do not rely on articles on the net.Or anywhere else. If you do what you are saying is that the Holy Spirit did not mean he could teach you. Prayer. You will never see me praying. listen to out loud prayers people give in front of people. What do you hear? What they have learned from hearing someone else pray? Is that personal? Search the NT and see how many times you can find Yahshua praying in 3 1/2 years and how many people were around him. He did not say go into your closet for nothing. Paul did not say pray without seacing to hear himself. You are right thier is a personal relationship with Yahweh. Yahweh is spirit so pray in spirit.If you ask your father for something you do not do it silently and expect him to hear you. The same goes for Yahweh. He hears your thoughts. Pray/ talk to him as a father. No special words. just what ever is bugging you in your mind. And he will reward you openly. I will not relay this story but it is documented. I will do a short form. I was electricuted by 14000 volts of electricty. I was shook around like a ragdoll. I could not talk,see,yell,try to move on my own. I could only do one thing. Think in my head Yahshua help me. Bamm i was let go an insulator that is made to handle the electricity failed at that exact moment and went to ground. I was rushed to a Hospital Burn unit and tested all night. The next day the dr. came to me scratching his head saying you are 1 lucky guy. You should be dead and you have no signs of anything happening to you. The next day I was called in to my big bosses office and talked to. Asked if I wanted to take a less dangerous job. I said no. He said you do not understand.I said i know i could of been killed. He said yes but you do not realize we have 12000 workers. A 100 year history. And you are the 1st one to ever live from this kind of accident and then you were not hurt.. Praise Yahweh to this Day. He hears his children. The company is AmerenUE and the Hospital was St maries in Jefferson City Mo. It happened during the flood of 93 and i was working close to the Missouri River. I know miracles happens. Why I wa saved I do not know. What I do know and have realised that most churches feed you full of Hogwash. and Crusades are the worst. Yahweh will save whoever he wishes. The Pharasees had a bifg problem with Yahshua over this and that should speak very loudly. Shalom and May Yahweh's Wisdom be a Warm Blanket for Your Soul...Miles

All pretty words, but it still doesn't answer my question. You say he HAS done creative miracles and then you give a reference to look up. It's not my job to go looking for this, if it has happened, then enlighten me on it.

And seriously, isn't it logical that it would take place in more places than a simple tent?

You are only to go so far with a skeptic before you become a fool. We have given you all you need to know. Faith comes by Hearing. If your ears are dull of hearing. Then what you want you will never find..shalom...Miles

No you have given me your opinions NOT concrete facts. Oh, that's right, the very definition of faith is belief without proof. Sorry, in the real world you need concrete evidence not merely hearsay.

And my ears are fine, but I'm not hearing any facts.

too many words....yuk

we've done this before Michael. oops

Those that say God has intervened, all say something like. God is so full of Love and Oh God has heard me and answered and helped me when man could not etc. I am one of these.

And others quite vosciferously opine and obstiante that no such thing occurs. That God does not intervene selectively.
These are the same ones that deny that God may intervene or not accept someone in their own terms and on their own terms, no matter how high the impregable wall or gulf exists, IF IT EXISTS at all.

Those that are answered affirm

Those that are not answered are affirmed

The affirmation is the personal admission. EQUALLY.


Different results , but concretely yes or no.

And the thanksgiving towards God by the tongue of man is yes or no, also.

And the gratitude towards God is on the tongue, yes or no, also.

And the faith and the belief are tied to this yes or no, to the man.

This is the miracle.


This is the proof. The resolute heart attitude found in the yes and no answers leads to the continual demand for explanation.

The explanation is simply found on the tongues of those that have received and their person is forever changed .

And the other is not changed.

The rage is expressed in the affirmation that no intervention is forthcoming, and none shall be in that attitude.

The love is expressed in the affirmation that intervention is forthcoming and has manifested, and all is in the attitude displayed.

It is black and white.

God answers for God not man answering for God.

God answers man.

Let man seek answers until he finds them.

If from God, seek God. If from man, seek MAN.



What of the boasting? Humility or arrogance?

That, we all must judge within ourselves, by ourselves.




There is obviously no consensus at any given moment.


peace

Creative.. I would have to say the only justification that one could conjure up is simply to have faith in God that he will help all who need it. But as a man of reason, faith, is not enough for me.

the human body isn't fully understood.

and human will power can have a lot of sway on healing. a patient given a placebo can often do better just because they believe they are.

the whys and arguements are in the other thread.

i started that thread for someone else to argue his points in instead of doing it in another...I even sent him the link and funny...he never showed.

but I think anything is possible. As for scientific proof...my favorite quote explains why anything could be possible


"Aerodynamically, the bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly, but the bumble bee doesn't know it so it goes on flying anyway."

Mary Kay Ash

So this all loving god, (who can be jealous), is arbitrary?

Is it like a lottery???

Only the right combination of factors shall recieve a miracle on days ending in 'y'?

I don't get it... and I know I use humour...but it makes no sense... so only those with the correct number of the appropriate factors will see a divine intervention?

Ummm... come on.... really?


What about the power of faith? Belief, strength of mind... the capacity for the human body to heal itself? That is faith.

It doesn't take a dustbunny dusguised as Clark Kent to cure cancer.... and is no different to the Eureka!!!!, of the gold rush... it was no bloody miracle... it was there all the time..


Divine intervention.... the only interventions I know of, are when the loved ones storm troop a house to shock someone into getting their sh*te together.

Sorry but it's a load of crap in my opinion, you cant have your god and eat him too... it's just not cricket.

Wow...

Thank you all who have answered with your beliefs on this matter...




MorningSong, your faith is appreciated.

The only thing unsettling to myself concerning faith such as you have displayed is that it blames the mindset of the person who is praying for the unanswered prayer, or the will of this 'God'.

Very often I have witnessed believers, such as yourself, making the claim that the person praying did not have the proper relationship with 'God'. This is a common line of reasoning that also comes from the Christian faith regarding the question at hand. Not sure if you are a Christian, however, I have heard this reasoning many times before.

This type of reasoning does several things which are inherently opposed to themselves. On one hand, it re-affirms the notion to the believer that 'God' answers those who have a proper relationship with 'God'. A self-substantion. Based upon this, it then clearly states, accordingly, that others must not have this same properrelationship, therefore their prayers are not answered as a result. Proper and improper. Right and wrong.

That is clearly a broad-based judgement regarding the quality of another's relationship with this 'God', wouldn't you say?

Also, the suggestion that a prayer is not answered because it was not yet, or at all, a part of 'Gods' plan then leads me to propose this notion, which covers all of the suggestions that you have written...




What is best????

Effectively suggest your explanation(s) to a victim of repeated and on-going incestual rape who wanted to believe more than anything else in this world and prayed with more genuine heartfelt emotion than anyone who has found a parking spot or a better job by prayer... for sure.

Explain to her that she should have had more faith, or that this 'God' who loves her so much planned these things in her life, and in some way it was all for her own good.

Tell her that it was the best thing for her. Then tell her, once again, how much this 'God' loves her. Then tell her, once again, how this 'God' can do whatever it chooses and why it so chooses to do so.

Whatever the plan was or is, I, as a stupid but loving human, could think of a better way to teach or insert circumstances into one's life.

Realize that this long believed explanation has no legitimate value to those who have not been as fortunate in this life as many others.

It makes no sense.


For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.

Whoa .....

I shared a couple of articles, that spoke of one of MANY ways God answers Prayer.....the articles did not say that this was the ONLY way God answers prayer..

What Miles shared in his posts, I ALSO agree with.
God is NO respector of persons ,folks.
Like Miles shared, God has mercy on the just as well as the unjust.

So, let's not be so quick to draw conclusions from a couple of articles I found to share here....the articles spoke of just SOME of the ways God moves.
Ok Sweet People Here?


We can't put God in a box here, folks.
Again, Sorry what I shared was misunderstood.

In fact, I am not even the author of those 2 articles.
I always show an article as copyrigthed material , when I am not the author.
Blame the author now

May All Have a Blessed Ressurrection Day....
Let's All Be of a Joyful Heart today now.
Christ is Risen

God Bless You All Now.....Love You All........

Just another perspective...

No offense personally taken nor intended...

It was however, understood, clearly so in this case...

They are hard propositions, not meant to be taken lightly...

One's judgemental mentality places a lesser value onto another's level of faith and prayer, and thereby claims that it was not proper, and so it was not answered.

Help those less fortunate than you, who have prayed sincerely, who have believed sincerely, who had no free will...

Help them to understand...

Tough questions upset the picture so easily painted by those who paint with their own colors...

This is how I feel about it. A religion that needs to belittle people just to defend its position is pretty sad.