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| Topic: Interrogators Don't Need to Torture; It Doesn't Work | |
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torture is wrong torture is wrong its wrong no matter what im write your wrong... Did someone leave the record skipping. Your attempts to refute the effectiveness of torture are laughable at best dragon. she just gave you proof that torture works... And you want to know what, you say you have a high pain tolerance so they couldnt make you talk. Guess what? Ill give you a small sample of what would happen to you if you were caught by our enemys and they though you had info. First they would tie you up, most likely to a chair, and beat you untill your bleading and barly concious. Then, since you femaie they would most likely rape you. Then if you haven started sing like a song bird at this point they will start removing parts of you body. Starting with your hands and feet. After all of this they will still cut you head off. All of this is streched out over several days unless of corse they break you on the first day or so. Hears sample number 2, what happens if you are one of our enemys. Your locked in a small cage, ie a jail cell, not allowed to sleep, mabey subjected to verying teperatures, and when it comes down to the worst of it tied to a board and have water pored over your head. Maby if you resist after that and they are dam*n sure you have info. you might get a gun put to your head and posibly fired beside your head for intimidation. Now tell me Which would you rather endure. You try to say that torture does not work. Lets put it in a broad spectrum like you seem to see it. If you think that it dosent work then lets ask not only the military intereagators but the police and customes intereagators as well. You keep saying its not a civilized thing to do, since when is war civilized. War was made for one purpose, to take life. And for the past several thousand years our species has gotten very very good at it. I have yet to hear of two soldiers on the battle field politly asking if the other minds being shot at. I know that this will be refuted by the "torture is wrong no matter what" defense we have heard from almost every one of your posts on the subject but hey what do I know acording to you im "delusional at best". Still this does not make torture right, effective or even a civilized or human thing to do, does it?  Nice try though
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You say torture is not civilized, well neither is attacking innocent people which is what terrorists do. In an ideal society I would agree with you, but the world is not ideal and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. We don't need a perfect world not to think and act like animals. We only need to remember that we are not animals and unintelligent, that is all it takes. |
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Then I gess were down to yelling "tell us what we want to know" at them over and over, yea becouse that always works   humanity, you have any? torture does not work on someone who is dedicated to their cause Humanity yes, sympathy no and as far as torture not working on someone dedicated to there cause. Alow me to elaborat my fealings through an emoticon or two   If the person is that important and that dedicated to his cause this is how it would work. First he would be sent to a black opps interigator. And after that there are only a few things you need to understand. The human body can only stand so much pain, regardless of training, everyone has a breaking point. once the body has reached its breaking point your mind is then vonerable. That is when they start asking the questions. How do I know this you may ask. Ive talked to a couple of these guys. They hated what they did but they said they would do it again becouse the information gathered was well worth it. What if they do not know anything? Then what they tell you is bogus anyway. Then you have tortured a man for no reason, should that be allowed? See the thing you are forgetting here is punishment and torture are two different things. Torture is done to those that they really do not have enough on to charge with a crime and they are trying to illicit information from them that THEY BELIEVE they may have. Torture is wrong by anyone who has the intelligence to see for it what it is. I cannot believe with our supposed intelligence and advancement these days that people cannot see the animalistic, unintelligent nature of the premise. |
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You say torture is not civilized, well neither is attacking innocent people which is what terrorists do. In an ideal society I would agree with you, but the world is not ideal and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. We don't need a perfect world not to think and act like animals. We only need to remember that we are not animals and unintelligent, that is all it takes. Animals don't torture, so the use of torture is not acting like animals. |
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Dr. Allen Keller, the director of the Bellevue/N.Y.U. Program for Survivors of Torture, has treated "a number of people" who had been subjected to forms of near-asphyxiation, including waterboarding. An interview for The New Yorker states, "[He] argued that it was indeed torture, 'Some victims were still traumatized years later', he said. One patient couldn't take showers, and panicked when it rained. 'The fear of being killed is a terrifying experience,' he said."[5] Keller also stated in his testimony before the Senate that "Water-boarding or mock drowning, where a prisoner is bound to an inclined board and water is poured over their face, inducing a terrifying fear of drowning clearly can result in immediate and long-term health consequences. As the prisoner gags and chokes, the terror of imminent death is pervasive, with all of the physiologic and psychological responses expected, including an intense stress response, manifested by tachycardia (rapid heart beat) and gasping for breath. There is a real risk of death from actually drowning or suffering a heart attack or damage to the lungs from inhalation of water. Long term effects include panic attacks, depression and PTSD. I remind you of the patient I described earlier who would panic and gasp for breath whenever it rained even years after his abuse."[22]
In an open letter to U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Human Rights Watch claimed that waterboarding can cause the sort of "severe pain" prohibited by 18 USC 2340 (the implementation in the United States of the United Nations Convention Against Torture), that the psychological effects can last long after waterboarding ends (another of the criteria under 18 USC 2340), and that uninterrupted waterboarding can ultimately cause death Waterboarding has been defined as torture for decades precisely because it causes such obvious physical and emotional suffering. In 1898, for instance, U.S. soldiers were often court-martialed for using the practice on Filipino guerillas. The officer who suspended one soldier for waterboarding wrote that “the United States cannot afford to sanction the addition of torture.” And after World War II, the United States held many Japanese prison-camp officers and guards legally responsible for torture—including waterboarding—that they conducted on American prisoners. The number of detainees who have died in US Custody remains unknown. A review of 112 detainee deaths published in Medscape General Medicine revealed at least 11 of the 43 homicide cases involved blunt trauma or asphyxiation. At least three of the homicides reported have resulted in murder charges. Another three have resulted in charges of voluntary manslaughter. The 36 deaths caused by enemy mortar attacks, many of which occurred at Abu Ghraib, suggest clear violations of Geneva prohibitions against placing detainees in range of enemy attack. |
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That makes it right???? Yes, it does. There is no justification for torture, none, sorry. To save the lives of innocents, that justifies torture. Torture does work. Hussein's people, Al-Q would cut your head off in a minute. And, you defend these people? Sick. Lindyy  You don't even makes sense most of the time. How am I suppose to address that??? Torture does not work, it is not intelligent, civilized, etc.... It is not proven to save lives, it is not even proven effective to illicit valid information. As for what "they" would do, there are people walking our streets today who look and act just like us that would cut our heads off or worse. Criminals come in all backgrounds, races, religions, etc.... So what does that prove. Torture is not a legal punishment for crimes. dragon, you NEVER make sense. I could care less how you are able to make sense of what I say. If you do not have enough intelligence to figure that out, OH, WELL!!!! YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE. YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT IT DOES NOT WORK!! To me, you are not intelligent, civilized, etc. Do I care what the likes of you think of me? NOOOOOOO. Lindyy PTL forever! Well I guess you told me, huh??? Torture is animalistic and unintelligent and any and all proponents of torture are at best ignorant at worst well..............
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i'm so proud of our nation, using methods we once condemed. methods also used by the spanish inquisition
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That makes it right???? Yes, it does. There is no justification for torture, none, sorry. To save the lives of innocents, that justifies torture. There is absolutely no proof that torture saves innocent lives. What if the person would have told you anyway? Or better yet, tells you the wrong information and causes more lives to be lost??? Not even valid still. Torture is not a civilized, intelligent thing to do. So if you want to wallow with the animals be my guest but I will take the high road. I will not wish on another human that which I would not want done to myself. Because I am human and intelligent. I would hope the military people feel this same way otherwise they are war criminals and that doesn't sit well with me at all. I want to believe there are just, fair, righteous, humans in our military who see human life as I see it. Torture is animalistic and unintelligent to do to another human. Noone knows for sure if the person being tortured knows anything nor do they know if they would tell. Torture should not be allowed and it should be considered a crime. |
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You say torture is not civilized, well neither is attacking innocent people which is what terrorists do. In an ideal society I would agree with you, but the world is not ideal and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. We don't need a perfect world not to think and act like animals. We only need to remember that we are not animals and unintelligent, that is all it takes. Animals don't torture, so the use of torture is not acting like animals. Animalistic= without human thought, consideration or intelligence. |
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dragon, you NEVER make sense. I could care less how you are able to make sense of what I say. If you do not have enough intelligence to figure that out, OH, WELL!!!! YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE. YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT IT DOES NOT WORK!! To me, you are not intelligent, civilized, etc. Do I care what the likes of you think of me? NOOOOOOO. Lindyy PTL forever! Well I guess you told me, huh??? Torture is animalistic and unintelligent and any and all proponents of torture are at best ignorant at worst well.............. dragon - spoken like the childish, 'if it is not my way it is wrong,' person that you are. It should be a concern to all of us just what your definition of 'intelligent' is.  Lindyy PTL
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Mmmmkay.....i will say this... torture is wrong. But there are lines that need to be drawn. Putting someone in an 8x8 cell IS NOT TORTURE. Neither is sleep deprivation to some extent. Nor instilling fear. Here are some of my problems. The very act of war is inhumane. There is no humane way to shoot someone in the face. I'm really sorry to break the news. I have seen this. I have seen where kindness was viewed as weakness and time and time again this weakness was used against us. It has cost us lives. Again, war is brutal, and to survive it it must be fought brutally. There isn't one single veteran that has seen front line conflict that would disagree with me. And to compare us to animals....WE ARE ALL ANIMALS. Yes, i am speaking of a literal sense. You can learn a lot about the psychology of human nature by watching the discovery channel. The only difference between us and most animals is our developed frontal lobe.
Also as i said earlier that many soldiers do or should develope some sense of the warrior code. But if it's common practice for wounded enemies to cry for help, then blow themselves up when that helps arrives i have no problems with someone shooting him twice. This is a responsibility THEY take on by breaking this warrior code. War is hard, it is cruel. No one how fought in it and has a conscience will ever sleep the same at night. It is not us that should be held responsible for their actions. Anyhow, like i was saying earlier. I AM NOT COOL WITH TORTURE. It should be avoided at almost all costs. But i have a problem with someone saying that putting a terrorist in a prison cell and only letting him sleep 4 hours a night for several night torture. Hell, that's kinda like going to medical school! |
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You say torture is not civilized, well neither is attacking innocent people which is what terrorists do. In an ideal society I would agree with you, but the world is not ideal and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. We don't need a perfect world not to think and act like animals. We only need to remember that we are not animals and unintelligent, that is all it takes. Animals don't torture, so the use of torture is not acting like animals. Animalistic= without human thought, consideration or intelligence. It's a terrible terrible thing Dragoness. Once again i respect your outlook on life. I admire your caring for everyone. So know that i am not attacking you in any way by saying this. (An example of the mind when pushed in combat) It's pretty hard to apply much of any human thought when you are bayonetting someone in the chest. (Sorry for the brutality, but it is the cold hard TRUTH) |
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You say torture is not civilized, well neither is attacking innocent people which is what terrorists do. In an ideal society I would agree with you, but the world is not ideal and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. We don't need a perfect world not to think and act like animals. We only need to remember that we are not animals and unintelligent, that is all it takes. Animals don't torture, so the use of torture is not acting like animals. Animalistic= without human thought, consideration or intelligence. and torture does require human thought to do. Are you claiming animals could figure out how to water board someone? |
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