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| Topic: Interrogators Don't Need to Torture; It Doesn't Work | |
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does noone think of vietnam and how many of our soldiers never said one word even after years of torture? US soldiers have special training on how to not talk. My step father was in a prison camp in Vietnam, where he was tortured frequently. The only reason he didn't talk was because of his training. Many people talk, even with the training. And nobody is talking about the violent and vile forms of torture used by terrorists and third world dictators, we are talking about non-life threatening, non-crippling forms of coersion. How do you know what a person's tolerance is? I have extremely high pain tolerance so one could torture me and not get a thing out of me if I knew anything. How far will they go? Torture still guarentees nothing. If torture was so effective the war would be over cause they have been doing it all along. So it shows itself to be useless and animalistic. Proponents of torture are not well in the head, sorry but it cannot be made right no matter how you put it down. The americans don't use pain for torture. That just shows how little you know about the situation. Discomfort and fear work and don't leave lasting scars. Loud music, sleep deprivation, cold rooms, hot rooms and water boarding are all non-deadly, non-painful, non-crippling forms of coercion, which are often called "torture". |
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does noone think of vietnam and how many of our soldiers never said one word even after years of torture? US soldiers have special training on how to not talk. My step father was in a prison camp in Vietnam, where he was tortured frequently. The only reason he didn't talk was because of his training. Many people talk, even with the training. And nobody is talking about the violent and vile forms of torture used by terrorists and third world dictators, we are talking about non-life threatening, non-crippling forms of coersion. How do you know what a person's tolerance is? I have extremely high pain tolerance so one could torture me and not get a thing out of me if I knew anything. How far will they go? Torture still guarentees nothing. If torture was so effective the war would be over cause they have been doing it all along. So it shows itself to be useless and animalistic. Proponents of torture are not well in the head, sorry but it cannot be made right no matter how you put it down. The americans don't use pain for torture. That just shows how little you know about the situation. Discomfort and fear work and don't leave lasting scars. Loud music, sleep deprivation, cold rooms, hot rooms and water boarding are all non-deadly, non-painful, non-crippling forms of coercion, which are often called "torture". Don't play it down. Torture is torture and it is humanly not a civilized thing to do. I already told you you cannot make torture a right thing to do no matter what you say about it or whatever. It is just plain wrong |
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You say torture is not civilized, well neither is attacking innocent people which is what terrorists do. In an ideal society I would agree with you, but the world is not ideal and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
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You say torture is not civilized, well neither is attacking innocent people which is what terrorists do. In an ideal society I would agree with you, but the world is not ideal and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. i disagree very strongly. there is no use in critisizing them if we are lowering ourselves to their level, we must not give up our moral high ground |
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torture is wrong
torture is wrong its wrong no matter what im write your wrong... Did someone leave the record skipping. Your attempts to refute the effectiveness of torture are laughable at best dragon. she just gave you proof that torture works... And you want to know what, you say you have a high pain tolerance so they couldnt make you talk. Guess what? Ill give you a small sample of what would happen to you if you were caught by our enemys and they though you had info. First they would tie you up, most likely to a chair, and beat you untill your bleading and barly concious. Then, since you femaie they would most likely rape you. Then if you haven started sing like a song bird at this point they will start removing parts of you body. Starting with your hands and feet. After all of this they will still cut you head off. All of this is streched out over several days unless of corse they break you on the first day or so. Hears sample number 2, what happens if you are one of our enemys. Your locked in a small cage, ie a jail cell, not allowed to sleep, mabey subjected to verying teperatures, and when it comes down to the worst of it tied to a board and have water pored over your head. Maby if you resist after that and they are dam*n sure you have info. you might get a gun put to your head and posibly fired beside your head for intimidation. Now tell me Which would you rather endure. You try to say that torture does not work. Lets put it in a broad spectrum like you seem to see it. If you think that it dosent work then lets ask not only the military intereagators but the police and customes intereagators as well. You keep saying its not a civilized thing to do, since when is war civilized. War was made for one purpose, to take life. And for the past several thousand years our species has gotten very very good at it. I have yet to hear of two soldiers on the battle field politly asking if the other minds being shot at. I know that this will be refuted by the "torture is wrong no matter what" defense we have heard from almost every one of your posts on the subject but hey what do I know acording to you im "delusional at best". |
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You say torture is not civilized, well neither is attacking innocent people which is what terrorists do. In an ideal society I would agree with you, but the world is not ideal and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. i disagree very strongly. there is no use in critisizing them if we are lowering ourselves to their level, we must not give up our moral high ground I dont think we are resorting to their level. Are you claiming that depriving someone of sleep is the same as blowing up a bus with a bomb tied to your chest? |
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I dont think we are resorting to their level. Are you claiming that depriving someone of sleep is the same as blowing up a bus with a bomb tied to your chest? torture is torture. and btw, suicide is not torture |
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I dont think we are resorting to their level. Are you claiming that depriving someone of sleep is the same as blowing up a bus with a bomb tied to your chest? torture is torture. and btw, suicide is not torture Then I gess were down to yelling "tell us what we want to know" at them over and over, yea becouse that always works  
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Then I gess were down to yelling "tell us what we want to know" at them over and over, yea becouse that always works humanity, you have any? torture does not work on someone who is dedicated to their cause |
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Then I gess were down to yelling "tell us what we want to know" at them over and over, yea becouse that always works humanity, you have any? torture does not work on someone who is dedicated to their cause Humanity yes, sympathy no and as far as torture not working on someone dedicated to there cause. Alow me to elaborat my fealings through an emoticon or two   If the person is that important and that dedicated to his cause this is how it would work. First he would be sent to a black opps interigator. And after that there are only a few things you need to understand. The human body can only stand so much pain, regardless of training, everyone has a breaking point. once the body has reached its breaking point your mind is then vonerable. That is when they start asking the questions. How do I know this you may ask. Ive talked to a couple of these guys. They hated what they did but they said they would do it again becouse the information gathered was well worth it.
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It is "bad interrogation. I mean you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture's bad enough," said former CIA officer Bob Baer.
Larry Johnson, a former CIA officer and a deputy director of the State Department's office of counterterrorism, recently wrote in the Los Angeles Times, "What real CIA field officers know firsthand is that it is better to build a relationship of trust … than to extract quick confessions through tactics such as those used by the Nazis and the Soviets." torture is unreliable, at best. no matter what you say to defend it, you're only putting yourself in a negative light |
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were not talking beating confessions out of people. Were talking when you have a target of interest that you know he knows what you need to know simply it is impossible for him not to know, ie targets he was incharge of. I think im done with this thread becouse the people defending it seem to live in a wonderfull black and white world. Guess what the world is not black and white its a very blurry shade of gray.
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were not talking beating confessions out of people. Were talking when you have a target of interest that you know he knows what you need to know simply it is impossible for him not to know, ie targets he was incharge of. I think im done with this thread becouse the people defending it seem to live in a wonderfull black and white world. Guess what the world is not black and white its a very blurry shade of gray. good day but, if you must bring up the black and white bit. do you not try to see the world from their perspective? or are they just evil? |
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If you think it's righteious and just to torture those that you percieve as a threat, or withholding information, but against having your own side tortured or abused by those that have that same perception(enemies) you are a hypocrite... OH, WELL! Guess I am a hypocrite. Do I care? NOOOOO. Do I care about saving our country? YESS! Do YOU? Doubt it. Lindyy 
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That makes it right???? Yes, it does. There is no justification for torture, none, sorry. To save the lives of innocents, that justifies torture. Torture does work. Hussein's people, Al-Q would cut your head off in a minute. And, you defend these people? Sick. Lindyy You don't even makes sense most of the time. How am I suppose to address that??? Torture does not work, it is not intelligent, civilized, etc.... It is not proven to save lives, it is not even proven effective to illicit valid information. As for what "they" would do, there are people walking our streets today who look and act just like us that would cut our heads off or worse. Criminals come in all backgrounds, races, religions, etc.... So what does that prove. Torture is not a legal punishment for crimes. dragon, you NEVER make sense. I could care less how you are able to make sense of what I say. If you do not have enough intelligence to figure that out, OH, WELL!!!! YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE. YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT IT DOES NOT WORK!! To me, you are not intelligent, civilized, etc. Do I care what the likes of you think of me? NOOOOOOO. Lindyy PTL forever! |
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That makes it right???? Yes, it does. There is no justification for torture, none, sorry. To save the lives of innocents, that justifies torture. There is absolutely no proof that torture saves innocent lives. What if the person would have told you anyway? Or better yet, tells you the wrong information and causes more lives to be lost??? Not even valid still. Torture is not a civilized, intelligent thing to do. So if you want to wallow with the animals be my guest but I will take the high road. I will not wish on another human that which I would not want done to myself. Because I am human and intelligent. I would hope the military people feel this same way otherwise they are war criminals and that doesn't sit well with me at all. I want to believe there are just, fair, righteous, humans in our military who see human life as I see it. |
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Edited by
karmafury
on
Sun 03/16/08 03:45 AM
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It seems that even governmental agencies can't decide if the information is reliable or not.
washingtonpost.com FBI, CIA Debate Significance of Terror Suspect Agencies Also Disagree On Interrogation Methods By Dan Eggen and Walter Pincus Washington Post Staff Writers Tuesday, December 18, 2007; A01 Al-Qaeda captive Abu Zubaida, whose interrogation videotapes were destroyed by the CIA, remains the subject of a dispute between FBI and CIA officials over his significance as a terrorism suspect and whether his most important revelations came from traditional interrogations or from torture. While CIA officials have described him as an important insider whose disclosures under intense pressure saved lives, some FBI agents and analysts say he is largely a loudmouthed and mentally troubled hotelier whose credibility dropped as the CIA subjected him to a simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding and to other "enhanced interrogation" measures............... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/17/AR2007121702151_pf.html |
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Edited by
Drivinmenutz
on
Sun 03/16/08 05:56 AM
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It is "bad interrogation. I mean you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture's bad enough," said former CIA officer Bob Baer. Larry Johnson, a former CIA officer and a deputy director of the State Department's office of counterterrorism, recently wrote in the Los Angeles Times, "What real CIA field officers know firsthand is that it is better to build a relationship of trust … than to extract quick confessions through tactics such as those used by the Nazis and the Soviets." torture is unreliable, at best. no matter what you say to defend it, you're only putting yourself in a negative light You are right. In an ideal situation this is the best way to go about doing things. I think you'll find that 9 times out of 10 these are the methods used by our intelligence agencies. However, when we have captured an insurgent or a terrorist in the act of trying to kill us there may be some need of getting information out quickly. Though it not be prefered there are other methods of interrogation that could be considered inhumane. This being sleep deprivation, making them afraid, etc. In my opinion these methods are psychological. They aren't torture. Then again i have little sympathy for those that try to kill me when i am helping their wounded neighbor (that they injured). What they should do is use a method simliar to "good cop bad cop". Take everything away and put them in a cell. Maybe only let the get a few hours of sleep a night for a couple days. Then someone comes in and makes sure everything is ok with the prisoner. When he discovers the lack of sleep he can pretend to hook him up with a few more hours. Maybe and extra meal or snack or something. Then over time the prisoner developes trust for this individual. Anyway, this is a method proven to be very effective. But i guess letting a terrorist recieve only 4 hours of sleep a night for 3 nights is too much and considered to be torture for some. And it is very hard to do anyone favors when we have to make sure they get a minimum of 8 hours sleep, 3 square meals a day, cable television, a temperpedic bed in a 12x20 room with its own private bathroom and shower. Here is another thing to take into consideration. Their mentallity for the most part is, fear is strength, and kindness is weakness. This is a sad state of mind, but it is however their state of mind. We do need to make it unappealing to go up against us. The picture we want them to have of us is, we are nice and will do for you what we can, but mess with us and you'll be sorry. Anyway, it's hard to bring that mentallity to them when we all those that attack us are put in luxury suites in the hilton with free gormet meals. Please, don't read too much into this because i am most definately against torture. But as i said earlier, if putting a known terrorist in an 8x8 cell is considered torture, then we most definately are weak minded. |
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Considering they would Chop our heads off for SPORT I have no problem with makeing them feel fear **water Boarding***
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I dont think we are resorting to their level. Are you claiming that depriving someone of sleep is the same as blowing up a bus with a bomb tied to your chest? torture is torture. and btw, suicide is not torture I never said suicide is torture. I was saying that we are not at their level. If we were we wouldn't torture them to get information, we would just blow up their whole country, innocents and all because thats what they do. For all those people that say torture is torture. I want you to pretend that you were captured and they wanted information from you. Would you rather be deprived of sleep or pierced with red hot pokers in non vital areas. (note these pokers singe the flesh closed so you don't bleed out) I am pretty sure everyone would pick the first one. |
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