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Topic: Interrogators Don't Need to Torture; It Doesn't Work
Marine1488 Joined Tue 12/18/07 Posts: 323	Sat 03/15/08 07:42 PM
That makes it right???? Yes, it does. There is no justification for torture, none, sorry. To save the lives of innocents, that justifies torture. There is absolutely no proof that torture saves innocent lives. What if the person would have told you anyway? Or better yet, tells you the wrong information and causes more lives to be lost??? Not even valid still. Torture is not a civilized, intelligent thing to do. So if you want to wallow with the animals be my guest but I will take the high road. I will not wish on another human that which I would not want done to myself. Because I am human and intelligent. Oh. You are going to take the high road? How noble of you promising not to torture anyone from the comfort of your own house. I mean my God you think highly of yourself.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Sat 03/15/08 07:43 PM
There is absolutely no proof that torture saves innocent lives. There is no proof that it doesn't. Shouldn't we TRY, if lives are at stake? What if the person would have told you anyway? Then that person should have started talking before I got the pliers and the blow torch. Or better yet, tells you the wrong information and causes more lives to be lost??? I'm not worried about lives being lost, I'm worried about innocent lives being lost. Whisper this to your child, as he/she falls asleep "If you were ever in danger and the only way I could save you would be to torture a bad person, I would take the high road."

MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Sat 03/15/08 07:45 PM
Torture is reprehensible and evil no matter who does it.

MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Sat 03/15/08 07:47 PM Edited by MirrorMirror on Sat 03/15/08 07:48 PM
Saving "innocent lives" is not an excuse. Thats a perverted, sick, cynical,and idiotic view. On a lot of different levels and its frightening to think there are people so sadistic and evil to think torture is justifiable

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Sat 03/15/08 07:49 PM
If you think it's righteious and just to torture those that you percieve as a threat, or withholding information, but against having your own side tortured or abused by those that have that same perception(enemies) you are a hypocrite... Not at all. I would only torture if lives were in danger and I had reason to believe that the person in captivity knows details that could help save those lives. The terrorists torture people without ever asking a question. They do it for fun. Follow the links. A 12 year old boy is taught how to behead a man. They use an actual living man, so I strongly suggest you don't watch. But you wouldn't anyways, because nothing can break you from your relativist delusions. Torture to save peoples LIVES is not the same thing was torture for fun. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/227728.php

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Sat 03/15/08 07:52 PM
Saving "innocent lives" is not an excuse. Thats a perverted, sick, cynical,and idiotic view. On a lot of different levels and its frightening to think there are people so sadistic and evil to think torture is justifiable It's sick to think that you would rather have the deaths on innocents on your hands, instead of trying to make someone talk, who could save those lives. I'm not sadistic or evil, but if lives hanged in the balance and I reasonably believed someone had the information to save those lives, I would be sadistic and evil to NOT get the information any way I had to.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Sat 03/15/08 07:53 PM
Torture is reprehensible and evil no matter who does it. I wonder if you would change your mind if it was your loved ones or your own life that was hanging in the balance.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Sat 03/15/08 07:55 PM
That makes it right???? Yes, it does. There is no justification for torture, none, sorry. To save the lives of innocents, that justifies torture. There is absolutely no proof that torture saves innocent lives. What if the person would have told you anyway? Or better yet, tells you the wrong information and causes more lives to be lost??? Not even valid still. Torture is not a civilized, intelligent thing to do. So if you want to wallow with the animals be my guest but I will take the high road. I will not wish on another human that which I would not want done to myself. Because I am human and intelligent. Oh. You are going to take the high road? How noble of you promising not to torture anyone from the comfort of your own house. I mean my God you think highly of yourself. I would hope the military people feel this same way otherwise they are war criminals and that doesn't sit well with me at all. I want to believe there are just, fair, righteous, humans in our military who see human life as I see it.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Sat 03/15/08 07:56 PM
There is absolutely no proof that torture saves innocent lives. There is no proof that it doesn't. Shouldn't we TRY, if lives are at stake? What if the person would have told you anyway? Then that person should have started talking before I got the pliers and the blow torch. Or better yet, tells you the wrong information and causes more lives to be lost??? I'm not worried about lives being lost, I'm worried about innocent lives being lost. Whisper this to your child, as he/she falls asleep "If you were ever in danger and the only way I could save you would be to torture a bad person, I would take the high road." In your scenerio, I could torture the person and my child will still die and then what???? Me and the criminal are the same both scums of the earth. Sick ideals going on here, just sick

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Sat 03/15/08 07:57 PM
Saving "innocent lives" is not an excuse. Thats a perverted, sick, cynical,and idiotic view. On a lot of different levels and its frightening to think there are people so sadistic and evil to think torture is justifiable

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Sat 03/15/08 07:57 PM
I would hope the military people feel this same way otherwise they are war criminals and that doesn't sit well with me at all. I want to believe there are just, fair, righteous, humans in our military who see human life as I see it. And how exactly do you see human life? The comfort of one man is worth how many lives? At what point would you say "Okay, we have to torture this SOB. Let's water board him, because we have to find that bomb before it goes off."? How many lives would have to be at stake? Or perhaps just one? Yours? Your childs? Any parent who wouldn't torture someone to save their child has no right to have children. Any parent who wouldn't allow another that same opportunity is a hypocrite.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Sat 03/15/08 07:59 PM
If you think it's righteious and just to torture those that you percieve as a threat, or withholding information, but against having your own side tortured or abused by those that have that same perception(enemies) you are a hypocrite... Not at all. I would only torture if lives were in danger and I had reason to believe that the person in captivity knows details that could help save those lives. The terrorists torture people without ever asking a question. They do it for fun. Follow the links. A 12 year old boy is taught how to behead a man. They use an actual living man, so I strongly suggest you don't watch. But you wouldn't anyways, because nothing can break you from your relativist delusions. Torture to save peoples LIVES is not the same thing was torture for fun. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/227728.php Torture and asking a question makes it better???!!!!!! I hope you know how ridiculous you sound. A criminal tortures people, a just person does not. There is no gray here at all, like you are trying to make.

toastedoranges Joined Thu 01/03/08 Posts: 11042	Sat 03/15/08 07:59 PM
Torture is reprehensible and evil no matter who does it. agreed Saving "innocent lives" is not an excuse. Thats a perverted, sick, cynical,and idiotic view. On a lot of different levels and its frightening to think there are people so sadistic and evil to think torture is justifiable again, agreed. ignorant is the nicest word i can use to describe someone who believes otherwise. torture does not work. if a person really does not want to tell, they won't. does noone think of vietnam and how many of our soldiers never said one word even after years of torture?

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Sat 03/15/08 08:00 PM
In your scenerio, I could torture the person and my child will still die and then what???? Me and the criminal are the same both scums of the earth. Sick ideals going on here, just sick So if you knew that the only way to save your child's life was to torture a terrorist, you wouldn't do it? I wouldn't tell my kids if I were you. There's something about valuing your own unrealistic moral ideals over the life of another that tends to put people off.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Sat 03/15/08 08:02 PM
I would hope the military people feel this same way otherwise they are war criminals and that doesn't sit well with me at all. I want to believe there are just, fair, righteous, humans in our military who see human life as I see it. And how exactly do you see human life? The comfort of one man is worth how many lives? At what point would you say "Okay, we have to torture this SOB. Let's water board him, because we have to find that bomb before it goes off."? How many lives would have to be at stake? Or perhaps just one? Yours? Your childs? Any parent who wouldn't torture someone to save their child has no right to have children. Any parent who wouldn't allow another that same opportunity is a hypocrite. Even in this scenerio, one a person can withstand horrific things and not talk to how far do you go? Second, he may not know what you need to know so then you are hurting an innocent. Thirdly it is just a sick logic no matter how you try to put it down.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Sat 03/15/08 08:03 PM
does noone think of vietnam and how many of our soldiers never said one word even after years of torture? US soldiers have special training on how to not talk. My step father was in a prison camp in Vietnam, where he was tortured frequently. The only reason he didn't talk was because of his training. Many people talk, even with the training. And nobody is talking about the violent and vile forms of torture used by terrorists and third world dictators, we are talking about non-life threatening, non-crippling forms of coersion.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Sat 03/15/08 08:04 PM
In your scenerio, I could torture the person and my child will still die and then what???? Me and the criminal are the same both scums of the earth. Sick ideals going on here, just sick So if you knew that the only way to save your child's life was to torture a terrorist, you wouldn't do it? I wouldn't tell my kids if I were you. There's something about valuing your own unrealistic moral ideals over the life of another that tends to put people off. Torture does not guarentee lives saved. There is no way to guarentee through torture a life is saved. So you are delusional at best and I won't say at worst.

toastedoranges Joined Thu 01/03/08 Posts: 11042	Sat 03/15/08 08:04 PM
US soldiers have special training on how to not talk. My step father was in a prison camp in Vietnam, where he was tortured frequently. The only reason he didn't talk was because of his training. Many people talk, even with the training. And nobody is talking about the violent and vile forms of torture used by terrorists and third world dictators, we are talking about non-life threatening, non-crippling forms of coersion. the brain doesn't know the difference between torture, it's deeper than you suggest. torture is vile

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Sat 03/15/08 08:08 PM
does noone think of vietnam and how many of our soldiers never said one word even after years of torture? US soldiers have special training on how to not talk. My step father was in a prison camp in Vietnam, where he was tortured frequently. The only reason he didn't talk was because of his training. Many people talk, even with the training. And nobody is talking about the violent and vile forms of torture used by terrorists and third world dictators, we are talking about non-life threatening, non-crippling forms of coersion. How do you know what a person's tolerance is? I have extremely high pain tolerance so one could torture me and not get a thing out of me if I knew anything. How far will they go? Torture still guarentees nothing. If torture was so effective the war would be over cause they have been doing it all along. So it shows itself to be useless and animalistic. Proponents of torture are not well in the head, sorry but it cannot be made right no matter how you put it down.

Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 13137	Sat 03/15/08 08:18 PM
In your scenerio, I could torture the person and my child will still die and then what???? Me and the criminal are the same both scums of the earth. Sick ideals going on here, just sick So if you knew that the only way to save your child's life was to torture a terrorist, you wouldn't do it? I wouldn't tell my kids if I were you. There's something about valuing your own unrealistic moral ideals over the life of another that tends to put people off. Torture does not guarentee lives saved. There is no way to guarentee through torture a life is saved. So you are delusional at best and I won't say at worst. If you didn't try, you would be allowing people to be murdered. If the torture didn't work, at least you tried. And this pathetic "Maybe the person is innocent..." crap is getting old. If you have REASON TO BELIEVE that someone has the information you need to save lives, then torture is justified. If he person doesn't have the information, then you have screwed up badly. That's why the US doesn't try to coerce everyone we capture. We only do it to the people who are leaders within their terrorist organizations. In that case, the person is guaranteed to have the information we need. http://www.americandaily.com/article/2510 Formerly stationed with the Army's 4th Infantry Division near Tikrit, Iraq, Col. West and his men often found themselves fighting well-armed Saddam-loyalists, anxiously poised to kill and injure American troops. Lt. Col. Allen West's unit, operating in a constantly dangerous locale, received information from an Iraqi informant that a plot had been undertaken to ambush West and his men. The informant further indicated that an Iraqi police officer was involved in the plot. Under orders from West, two sergeants attached to the 4th Infantry Division arrested the Iraqi police officer and detained him for questioning at an American air base in Iraq. As interrogation of the Saddam-loyalist yielded little, Col. West assumed the lead role in the interrogation. After continued attempts to garner information from the uncooperative detainee in a peaceful and non-confrontational manner, Col. West withdrew his service weapon and fired two shots into a weapons clearing barrel located nearby. While placing the detainee and his subordinates in no danger, Col. West's discharge of his weapon did result in the detainee's offering information about an upcoming sniper attack and the names of those involved. Each of the guerrilla fighters named by the Iraqi were subsequently taken into custody, averting the disastrous attack and saving lives in the process. There, now you can't say "there's no proof that torture saves lives". Those are the words of an eye witness. I'm sure you will gratuitously refute this account, but someone who can think might actually get something from it.