the pledge was written in 1892, "under god" was added in 1954

can I share your notes?????

There are quite a few with no religious affiliation if you go down the list. Also, I cannot find it now, but there is a notation that people claimed religious affiliation and were not active practitioners of the religion claimed.

A Table of the Religious Affiliations
of American Founders


Signer State Doc. Office Affiliation (Ref.)

Adams, Andrew CT A CO(l)
Adams, John MA D President CO(b)UN(a)
Adams, Samuel MA D/A CO(b)
Adams, Thomas VA A
Banister, John VA A
Baldwin, Abraham GA C CO(j,k)PR(n)
Bartlett, Josiah NH D/A CO(b)
Bassett, Richard DE C ME(g,j,m,n)
Bedford, Gunning, Jun. DE C PR(j,m)
Blair, John VA C Justice PR(a)EP(n)
Blount, William NC C EP(n)PR(f,j)
Braxton, Carter VA D
Brearly, David NJ C EP(n)
Broom, Jacob DE C QU(n)EP(m)
Butler, Pierce SC C EP(j,m)
Carroll, Charles MD D RC(d)
Carroll, Daniel MD A/C RC(d,j,n)
Chase, Samuel MD D Justice EP(a)
Clark, Abraham NJ D PR(c,e)
Clingan, William PA A
Collins, John RI A Governor
Clymer, George PA D/C QU(j,n),EP(j)
Dana, Francis MA A
Dayton, Jonothan NJ C PR(n)EP(j)
****enson, John DE A/C QU(j,m,n)EP(j)
Drayton, William Henry SC A
Duane, James NY A EP(l)
Duer, William NY A
Ellery, William RI(A)MA(D) D/A CO(b)
Few, William GA C ME(j,k,n)
Fitzsimons, Thomas PA C RC(j,n)
(variant spellings: Fitzsimmons, Fitz-Simons)
Floyd, William NY D PR(c,e)
Franklin, Benjamin PA D/C EP(n)DE(j)
Gerry, Elbridge MA D/A EP(j)
Gilman, Nicholas NH C CO(j,n)
Gorham, Nathaniel MA C CO(j,n)
Gwynnett, Button SC D EP(k,o)
Hall, Lyman SC D CO(b,k)
Hamilton, Alexander NY C EP(j,n)
Hancock, John MA A/D CO(b)
Hanson, John MD A
Harnett, Cornelious NC A EP(f)DE(f)
Harrison, Benjamin VA D Governor
Hart, John NJ D PR(c)
Harvie, John VA A
Hewes, Joseph NC D EP?(f)
Heyward, Thomas SC A
Heyward, Thomas, Jr. SC D
Holton, Samuel MA A
Hooper, William NC D EP(f)
Hopkins, Stephen RI D
Hopkinson, Francis NJ D Ep(l)
Hosmer, Titus CT D
Huntington, Samuel CT D/A CO(b)
Hutson, Richard SC A PR(l)
Ingersoll, Jared PA C PR(j,n)
Jefferson, Thomas VA D President DE(a)
Jennifer, Dan oF St. Thomas MD C EP(j,n)
Johnson, Wm. Saml. CT C Justice PR(a)EP(j,n)
King, Rufas MA C EP(j)CO(n)
Langdon, John NH C CO(j,n)
Langworthy, Edward GA A EP(o)
Laurens, Henry SC A HU(l)
Lee, Henry Lightfoot VA D/A
Lee, Richard Henry VA D/A Senator
Lewis, Francis NY D/A
Livingston, Phil. NY D P(c)
Livingston, Wil. NJ C PR(j,n)
Lovell, James MA A
Lynch, Thomas Junr. SC D
Madison, James Jr. VA C President EP(a,j,n)TH(i)
Marchant, Henry RI A
Mathews, John SC A
McHenry, James MD C PR(j,n)
Middleton, Arthur SC D
Miflin, Thomas PA C QU(n)LU(j)
M'Kean, Thomas DE D/A PR(m)
Morris, Gouv. NY(A)PA(C) A/C EP(j)DE(i,n)
Morris, Lewis NY D
Morris, Robert PA D/A/C EP(j,n)
Morton, John PA D
Nelson, Thomas Jr. VA D
Paca, William MD D
Paine, Robert Treat MA D CO(b)
Paterson, William NJ C Justice PT(a)PR(j,n)
Penn, John NC D/A UK(f)
Pinckney, Charles SC C EP(j,n)
Pinckney, Chas. Cotesworth SC C EP(j,n)
Read, George DE D/C EP(j,m,n)
Reed, Joseph PA A
Roberdeau, Daniel PA A
Rodney, Caesar DE D EP(m)
Ross, George PA D
Rush, Benjamin PA D PR(c,e)UN
Rutledge, Edward SC D Justice CE(a)
Rutledge, J. SC C EP(j,n)
Scudder, Nathaniel NJ A
Sherman, Roger CT D/A/C CO(b,j,n)
Smith, James PA D PR(c,e)
Smith, Jona. Bayard PA A
Spaight, Richard Dobbs NC C EP(f,j,n)
Stockton, Richard NJ D PR(c,e)
Stone, Thomas MD D
Taylor, George PA D PR(c,e)
Telfair, Edward GA A
Thornton, Matthew NH D PR(c,e)
Van Dyke, Nicholas DE A EP(m)
Walton, George GA D AN(o)
Walton, Jno. GA A
Washington, George VA C President EP(a,j,n)TH(i)
Wentworth, John Junr. NH A
Whipple, William NH D CO(b)
Williams, Jonothan NC A UK(f)
Williams, William CT D CO(b)
Williamson, Hu NC C PR(f,n)DE(j)
Wilson, James PA D/C Ch. Justice* EP(a)PR(e,n)DE(j)
Witherspoon, Jonothan NJ D/A Minister PR(c)(e)
Wolcott, Oliver CT D/A CO(b)
Wythe, George VA D EP(j)

______________________________________________________________________________

DOCUMENT

A = Articles of Confederation
D = Declaration of Independence
C = United States Constitution

AFFILIATION

CE = Church of England
CO = Congregationalist
DE = Deist
EP = Episcopalian
HU = Huguanot
LU = Lutheran
ME = Methodist
QU = Quaker
PR = Presbyterian
PT = Protestant
RC = Roman Catholic
TH = Theist
UK = Unknown
UN = Unitarian

REFERENCES

a = 1995 Information Please Almanac
b = The Congregationalist Library
c = Presbyterian Historical Society
d = U.S. Catholic Historical Society
e = Presbyterian Church, USA
f = North Carolina State Library
g = United Methodist Church
h = Lutheram
i = Memoirs & Correspondence of Thomas Jefferson, IV, p.512
j = A Worthy Company: Brief Lives of the Framers of the United States
Constitution, M. E. Bradford
k = Georgia Public Library Service
l = Dictionary of American Biography (1936)
m = A History of Delaware Through its Governors 1776-1984 by Roger A. Martin
n = Library of Congress
o = Georgia Historial Society

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855-1931), a Baptist minister, a Christian Socialist

Bellamy's original "Pledge of Allegiance" was published in the September 8th issue of the popular children's magazine The Youth's Companion as part of the National Public-School Celebration of Columbus Day, a celebration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's discovery of America

Bellamy's original Pledge read, "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

After a proclamation by President Benjamin Harrison, the Pledge was first used in public schools on October 12, 1892 during Columbus Day observances.

In 1923 the National Flag Conference called for the words my Flag to be changed to the Flag of the United States. The reason given was to ensure that immigrants knew to which flag reference was being made. The words "of America" were added a year later. The U.S. Congress officially recognized the Pledge as the official national pledge on December 28, 1945.

In 1940 the Supreme Court, in deciding the case of Minersville School District v. Gobitis, ruled that students in public schools could be compelled to recite the Pledge, even Jehovah's Witnesses like the Gobitases (whose name was misspelled as 'Gobitis' in the court case), who considered the flag salute to be idolatry. In the wake of this ruling, there was a rash of mob violence and intimidation against Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1943 the Supreme Court reversed its decision, ruling in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette that "compulsory unification of opinion" violated the First Amendment.

Before World War II, the Pledge would begin with the right hand over the heart during the phrase "I pledge allegiance". The arm was then extended toward the Flag at the phrase "to the Flag", and it remained outstretched during the rest of the pledge, with the palm facing upward, as if to lift the flag.

The Knights of Columbus in New York City felt that the pledge was incomplete without any reference to a deity. Appealing to the authority of Abraham Lincoln, the Knights felt that the words "under God" which were from Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address were most appropriate to add to the Pledge. In New York City on April 22, 1951, the Board of Directors of the Knights of Columbus adopted a resolution to amend their recitation of Pledge of Allegiance at the opening of each of the meetings of the 800 Fourth Degree Assemblies of the Knights of Columbus by addition of the words "under God" after the words "one nation." In the following two years, the idea spread throughout Knights of Columbus organizations nationwide

----The Knights of Columbus is the world's largest Roman Catholic fraternal service organization. Founded in the United States in 1882, it is named in honor of Christopher Columbus[1] and dedicated to the principles of Charity, Unity, Fraternity, and Patriotism. There are more than 1.7 million members in 14,000 councils, with nearly 200 councils on college campuses. Membership is limited to "practical Catholic" men aged 18 or older

As Lincoln Sunday (February 7, 1954) approached, Rev. Docherty knew not only that President Dwight Eisenhower was to be in attendance, but that it was more than just an annual ritual for him; while President, Eisenhower had been baptized a Presbyterian. Docherty's sermon focused on the Gettysburg Address, drawing its title from the address, "A New Birth of Freedom.".....

...After the service concluded, Docherty had opportunity to converse with Eisenhower about the substance of the sermon. The President expressed his enthusiastic concurrence with Docherty’s view, and the very next day, Eisenhower had the wheels turning in Congress to incorporate Docherty’s suggestion into law. On February 8, 1954, Rep. Charles Oakman (R-Mich.), introduced a bill to that effect

I was referring to the 55 signers of the Declaration of Independence which actually had the word "God" in it.

You provide a list of the signers of the Articles of Confederation which had no such word? (insert rolling eyes here)

Nice try.

talk about moot points. We have a living Goverment. That is what are forefathers were smart in giving us. The laws that we make today are just as valid as the laws that they made back then. In fact laws that abolish slavery or allow woman to vote are actually much better then what they could ever do. SO that is why this matters


Supreme Court since 1947

The phrase "separation of church and state" became a definitive part of Establishment Clause jurisprudence in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947), a case which dealt with a state law that allowed the use of government funds for transportation to religious schools. While the ruling upheld the state law allowing taxpayer funding of transportation to religious schools as constitutional, Everson was also the first case to hold the Establishment Clause applicable to the state legislatures as well as Congress, based upon the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

In 1962, the Supreme Court extended this analysis to the issue of prayer and religious readings in public schools. In Engel v. Vitale 370 U.S. 421 (1962), the Court determined it unconstitutional by a vote of 6-1 for state officials to compose an official school prayer and require its recitation in public schools, even when it is non-denominational.....



It is the law today whether you like it or not. Whether Jefferson ever meant his words to be so powerful the men who made laws in the path he laid are just as important to our understanding of the law as he is.

ok...i know i'm tired....but weren't you the one complaining about the "laws" earlier????

Wow. And here I thought you were arguing about them forcing kids to pray in school. Just blew that out of the water without me even having to lift a finger. WTG.

ok....so I didn't read it wrong then

So do you always go around destroying your own arguments or is this a first time occurrence for you?

Nope.

All three documents are our framework, right?

All three documents don't contain the word "God", right? Which is what we were discussing. Thanks for playing.

You better read a little closer.

you were complaining about being forced to say the pledge....now you are defending the laws (not that saying the pledge is a law)

So one document contains the word god and we are even debating that the framers did not want religion to be part of the government???? Well, I think that speaks volumes..LOL

am I misreading or are people flip flopping?

not trying to be rude but i'm really confused now

Uh...who was debating that? I merely said all of the Framers (again referring to the 55 signers of the Declaration of Independence, again the sole document with the word "God" in it of the three) were religious and believed in a "God" and that is why the word was in that document.

I also stated there is no "Separation of Church and State" anywhere in the Founding documents. Try reading posts before jumping in next time. Maybe you'll get what people are talking about.

Read what? The law striking down prayer in schools? Already knew about that one, thanks. And again saying the words "under god" in the Pledge of Allegiance isn't praying.

no it's not. many people don't agree with it being there however, so it probably shouldn't