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| Topic: Seperation of Church and State | |
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Edited by
adj4u
on
Thu 03/13/08 08:32 AM
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Sorry to inform you but "Separation of Church and State" doesnt necessarily make them mutually exclusive and was never meant to. This is what the 1st Amendment states regarding the idea: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" Praying is not establishing religion. Atheist's don't believe in praying. So Gov't backed praying is 100% establishing religion. Atheists do not want to deal with ridiculous Voo Doo and incantations. They just want their kids to have a real actual education free of ridiculous myths. then they shouldn't participate in it. but letting someone pray quietly (those that wish to) should be allowed to whatever belief they believe to tell someone they can not pray is prohibiting the free exercise thereof" now quit making me argue for religion cause organized religion is the root of all evil |
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Sorry to inform you but "Separation of Church and State" doesnt necessarily make them mutually exclusive and was never meant to. This is what the 1st Amendment states regarding the idea: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" Praying is not establishing religion. Atheist's don't believe in praying. So Gov't backed praying is 100% establishing religion. Atheists do not want to deal with ridiculous Voo Doo and incantations. They just want their kids to have a real actual education free of ridiculous myths. then they shouldn't participate in it. but letting someone pray quietly (those that wish to) should be allowed to whatever belief they believe Again the seperation side has made it abundently clear that no one can stop anyone from saying a quiet prayer inside their own head. No one cares. What does matter is when you make a 6 year old child of atheist say "under God" when in his world it is the same as pledging to the tooth fairy or easter bunny or any other made up creature. |
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Edited by
adj4u
on
Thu 03/13/08 08:37 AM
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Sorry to inform you but "Separation of Church and State" doesnt necessarily make them mutually exclusive and was never meant to. This is what the 1st Amendment states regarding the idea: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" Praying is not establishing religion. Atheist's don't believe in praying. So Gov't backed praying is 100% establishing religion. Atheists do not want to deal with ridiculous Voo Doo and incantations. They just want their kids to have a real actual education free of ridiculous myths. then they shouldn't participate in it. but letting someone pray quietly (those that wish to) should be allowed to whatever belief they believe Again the seperation side has made it abundently clear that no one can stop anyone from saying a quiet prayer inside their own head. No one cares. What does matter is when you make a 6 year old child of atheist say "under God" when in his world it is the same as pledging to the tooth fairy or easter bunny or any other made up creature.  hey now wait a freakin minute here what do you mean the easter bunnie and tooth fairy are real don't go spreading those false assumptions   oh by the way if you are aithest you do not do easter |
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Sorry to inform you but "Separation of Church and State" doesnt necessarily make them mutually exclusive and was never meant to. This is what the 1st Amendment states regarding the idea: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" Praying is not establishing religion. Atheist's don't believe in praying. So Gov't backed praying is 100% establishing religion. Atheists do not want to deal with ridiculous Voo Doo and incantations. They just want their kids to have a real actual education free of ridiculous myths. then they shouldn't participate in it. but letting someone pray quietly (those that wish to) should be allowed to whatever belief they believe Again the seperation side has made it abundently clear that no one can stop anyone from saying a quiet prayer inside their own head. No one cares. What does matter is when you make a 6 year old child of atheist say "under God" when in his world it is the same as pledging to the tooth fairy or easter bunny or any other made up creature. the made up part is your opinion. I don't think anyone should be forced to say it but I do know times have changed and at least down here....they don't have to say it and most schools don't even say the pledge because of the one nation under god because people have protested it and have protested some team mates praying together before a game but not making anyone that didn't want to pray. Everyone should be entitled to believe and practice what they want as long as laws aren't broken or hurt is caused |
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I don't think church has any business in the state because of the fact that there are too many beliefs or non beliefs in different things. But if one theory is taught....they all should be included so kids can get the big picture of how different people think
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Edited by
wiley
on
Thu 03/13/08 08:50 AM
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I'm for abolishing organized religion all together. We're not in the dark ages anymore.
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Anyone else feel that the Church has absolutely no reason to be part of our government and should be removed completely? My biggest pet peeve is whenever the military has a ceremony it always opens with a prayer. First, no where in the constitution does it say anything about eliminating religion. Separation of church and state is no where in there either and I defy you to find it. The fact is, this country was founded by people of faith. They wanted the freedom to worship without the government cracking down on them or forcing them to act/believe a certain way. Which I may point out, is the way folks like you want things to be. Your way, forced on others. Worse than King George. You have no right to take away that which our country was founded on. I for one will fight you to my grave. Your kind has done enough damage the last 40 years. That being said, I am not a religious man. I am a non-believer. However I do not fault those that are. I do not mock or scorn them. I do not shame them into hiding. I do not brow beat them into submission, call them names like bigot, zealot et al. That my friend is the sign of a person that has run out of valid arguments. So is the supression of others. Ask Stalin and Castro. To me, the bible tells a story of how to be a good citizen if nothing else. To do the right thing unto others. |
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Anyone else feel that the Church has absolutely no reason to be part of our government and should be removed completely? My biggest pet peeve is whenever the military has a ceremony it always opens with a prayer. First, no where in the constitution does it say anything about eliminating religion. Separation of church and state is no where in there either and I defy you to find it. The fact is, this country was founded by people of faith. They wanted the freedom to worship without the government cracking down on them or forcing them to act/believe a certain way. Which I may point out, is the way folks like you want things to be. Your way, forced on others. Worse than King George. You have no right to take away that which our country was founded on. I for one will fight you to my grave. Your kind has done enough damage the last 40 years. That being said, I am not a religious man. I am a non-believer. However I do not fault those that are. I do not mock or scorn them. I do not shame them into hiding. I do not brow beat them into submission, call them names like bigot, zealot et al. That my friend is the sign of a person that has run out of valid arguments. So is the supression of others. Ask Stalin and Castro. To me, the bible tells a story of how to be a good citizen if nothing else. To do the right thing unto others. I agree. I am a christian but won't bash someone who isn't and believe everyone has the right to their belief. |
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Most every 'religion', when taken in context and analyzed with an open, unbiased mind, resembles the next in it's basic dogma. Be a good person - put others welfare above your own. Believe in something bigger than yourself. Avoid indecision - dont be a wishy-washy SOB. Stand up, be counted, be real, have respect, love others, know you arent the center of the universe. How hard is that to understand? |
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Most every 'religion', when taken in context and analyzed with an open, unbiased mind, resembles the next in it's basic dogma. Be a good person - put others welfare above your own. Believe in something bigger than yourself. Avoid indecision - dont be a wishy-washy SOB. Stand up, be counted, be real, have respect, love others, know you arent the center of the universe. How hard is that to understand?  That's what I've tried saying on other threads as well. You just said it better
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Most every 'religion', when taken in context and analyzed with an open, unbiased mind, resembles the next in it's basic dogma. Be a good person - put others welfare above your own. Believe in something bigger than yourself. Avoid indecision - dont be a wishy-washy SOB. Stand up, be counted, be real, have respect, love others, know you arent the center of the universe. How hard is that to understand? but the problem is if you do not believe their way the fanatics wanna kill ya like i said root of evil  |
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I can give you an easy example of where I was forced to pray. As a first grader I had to say the pledge of aligence and in there it say's "under god". Do you think a six year old has the ability to stand up to all of that power structure? Actually that is not a prayer. You are not attempting to communicate with a deity or god. You merely state that our nation is under God. At no point do you pray. |
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I'll make it very clear again. I have not called anyone any names. I have not said that people cannot worship anyway they want. All I am saying is that public schools should not make children say "under God" it is wrong. As far as any theory being taught in class were do you draw the line. Can I walk in and drop of my theory of how the universe started and have it taught in class? If I get many people to sign a petition that says the universe was started by the flying spaghetti monster then do I get to have that taught in class? Or should science actually just be left to science, and people that have interesting theories can teach those theories to there own kids? |
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I can give you an easy example of where I was forced to pray. As a first grader I had to say the pledge of aligence and in there it say's "under god". Do you think a six year old has the ability to stand up to all of that power structure? Actually that is not a prayer. You are not attempting to communicate with a deity or god. You merely state that our nation is under God. At no point do you pray. to an atheist you are forcing them to admit that there is a God. That is the govt supporting religion. |
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Most every 'religion', when taken in context and analyzed with an open, unbiased mind, resembles the next in it's basic dogma. Be a good person - put others welfare above your own. Believe in something bigger than yourself. Avoid indecision - dont be a wishy-washy SOB. Stand up, be counted, be real, have respect, love others, know you arent the center of the universe. How hard is that to understand? but the problem is if you do not believe their way the fanatics wanna kill ya like i said root of evil except for the fact that evil existed before religion. |
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again....times have changed since you were in school. my son's schools don't even say the pledge any more
what is wrong with teaching theories????? that's how people form opinions and learn. and not to mention...even science can't totally agree on things either so why not teach the well known theories whatever they are |
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I can give you an easy example of where I was forced to pray. As a first grader I had to say the pledge of aligence and in there it say's "under god". Do you think a six year old has the ability to stand up to all of that power structure? Actually that is not a prayer. You are not attempting to communicate with a deity or god. You merely state that our nation is under God. At no point do you pray. to an atheist you are forcing them to admit that there is a God. That is the govt supporting religion. For one thing, you said forced to pray and I just stated how you didn't pray. Now you wish to change the subject. Again no its not forcing you to admit anything. Its merely reciting an a pledge. You can state under God without admitting there is a God for these are not your own words, but just reciting what someone else says. You can speak something with out it being your opinion. Our pledge is part of our history and I think its stupid that people want to take out "under God". |
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again....times have changed since you were in school. my son's schools don't even say the pledge any more what is wrong with teaching theories????? that's how people form opinions and learn. and not to mention...even science can't totally agree on things either so why not teach the well known theories whatever they are Ok good when can I march my theory in? Also if you are going to say only well known Oh but you said the well known.... well here is from China the most populace nation In the beginning there was darkness everywhere, and Chaos ruled. PanguWithin the darkness there formed an egg, and inside the egg the giant Pangu came into being. For aeons, safely inside the egg, Pangu slept and grew. When he had grown to gigantic size he stretched his huge limbs and in so doing broke the egg. The lighter parts of the egg floated upwards to form the heavens and the denser parts sank downwards, to become the earth. And so was formed earth and sky, Yin and Yang. So there you go. Science class will be so much more clear now. |
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again...a lot of schools don't even say the pledge anymore and I know if my son wasn't comfortable saying ... I would tell him NOT to say it. My son has beliefs that aren't the same as mine
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Edited by
Chazster
on
Thu 03/13/08 10:00 AM
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again....times have changed since you were in school. my son's schools don't even say the pledge any more what is wrong with teaching theories????? that's how people form opinions and learn. and not to mention...even science can't totally agree on things either so why not teach the well known theories whatever they are Ok good when can I march my theory in? Also if you are going to say only well known Oh but you said the well known.... well here is from China the most populace nation In the beginning there was darkness everywhere, and Chaos ruled. PanguWithin the darkness there formed an egg, and inside the egg the giant Pangu came into being. For aeons, safely inside the egg, Pangu slept and grew. When he had grown to gigantic size he stretched his huge limbs and in so doing broke the egg. The lighter parts of the egg floated upwards to form the heavens and the denser parts sank downwards, to become the earth. And so was formed earth and sky, Yin and Yang. So there you go. Science class will be so much more clear now. Actually religions like that are one of the reasons we have eggs for easter. I actually would have enjoyed learning about that in school. I find religious history of other cultures very interesting. It also would not have effected my views on my own religion. |
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