Again its Capitalism..profit MUST be made....

I have no reason to call you names .. I am about the love of my human beings even if I think they are wrong I still love them .. ha ha ha .. there are many solutions to these problems but I don't think that either party is going to be able to pull this country back together and like abe said a house divdied against itself can not stand .....

I don't dispute the fact that anyeone is entiled to care without the worry of cost... but, there is a difference between price and cost.

Price - a Loaf of bread is priced at $1.19, but factor in your time, your gas, ... and the COST of that bread is about $2.00 - Economics 101.

Health care under such a national plan make look cheap on the price tag, but when you factor in the COST of the government to run it - it's is WAY more than what you are paying right now.


EDIT - For the record, I don't like Rush... I listen to Rusty Humphries... ww.talk2rusty.com

As for how I "know" that the majority of people on these programs have not earned it, there is plenty of data out there.. You just have to open your eyes and look for it. that link I posted to IPI (http://www.ipi.org/) is a good source to start.

the cost of one cruise missile could cure 100 children.Our fear of the bad guys is making the country ILL!!!!!!!!!!!

But there are some that have .. veterans and a lot of little old people that have worked all thier lives and like madam pointed out can't get there medications .. you telling me the generation that fought WW2 didn't earn it ??

the saddest thing is I posted the word so people would think and know what it means and now we are on healthcare ..ARRRGGG i highjacked my own thread ...

Never said that.... they are in the MINORITY that have. (What about the millions of ILEGAL IMMIGRANTS that draw Food stamps, and posibly Social Security and never paid a dime into the system??)

However, you want to bring up health care for vets that have earned it, it's a prime example of why the goverment is the WRONG answer.

Summer 2004, my uncle, a disababled Vet and POW from Vietnam who has a history of heart attacks begins having chest pains at 5:30pm. The local VA clinic is closed, so he calls the VA hospital in Atlanta, 45 miles away.

They will not dipatch an ambulance... I drive him there.

We arrive around 6:30pm and he is signed in.

We wait in the waiting room until 11pm, when he is called back, triaged, and snet back to the waiting room.

1am - he is taken for chest x-rays and put into an exam room.

3am - a doctor comes in, tells him it's gas, gives him some pepto and tells him to follow up and at the local clinc the next day

9am - we are at the lcal VA clinc, they do a blood test and find out he had a heart attack, not gas and is rushed back to the VA hospital and put in ICU....


YUP = I want ALL of us to get the same great care our Vets who put their lives on the line do...

Again, I don't deny there is a problem - I've jsut seen how the Government handles the problem and see their Cure is Worse than the disease!

There in lies the root of my argument... Do you really want to entrust your health care, and the health care of your children to a divided house that has spent more time investigating Steroids in Baseball than trying to come up with solutions to these problems?

uh...making sure your mature male deer & elk are properly inflated for existing road conditions?

the point you don't seem to get is any health care is better than no healthcare .... I HAVE NO HEALTHCARE at the moment so wouldn't anything be better than nothing ... so Yees I will take anything over nothing ..

Actually, going back to the main point, economics, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Someone has to foot the bill - in this case, every tax payer in America.

Now, let me ask you a question - this is not trying to be heartless, but logical - How is it MY Responsibiilty to pay for YOUR healthcare??

Now, before you make the "Greater Good" and for the "Betterment of our fellow man" and "Compassion" arguments, realize those are MORAL based arguments. And, since when does the Government run based on Morals???

The point is this, Why should I have money ripped out of my pay check that I have worked so hard to earn to pay for a half @$$ed goverment run system so you can have health care?

I know, it sounds cruel, but that's is the essence of the issue.

EDIT - that's why I say there is a better fix out there somewhere... say price regulation on the cost of health insurance to make it affordable to anyone.

again AMEN SISTA! anything is better than nothing. especially when you have nothing and a life threatening situation comes up as i told my story before. to date if i found my cancer was back tomorrow...i would have to just sit and wait to die, no meds, no care...nothing. how sad! i am not alone. there are tons of people in this boat. there are many who are sitting waiting to die for lack of funds or ability to get healthcare...when you have to look these people in the eye everyday and watch their spouse sob because they cant save them, its tough!

Here's a better question for you than my last...

If you can't afford to pay for your own health insurance now, how will you be able to afford it when the Government FORCES you to pay for a National Health Care plan in the form of taxes??

I have no doubt it's tough, but I'll ask you this... those people sitting in front of you that can't afford health care now... what are they going to do when their taxes are raised to fund a national health care program???

If you think it's hard on them now while it's an OPTIONAL expense... when it becomes a mandantory expense in the form of higher taxes will only make it worse.

You guys are treating it like I'm saying leave the system as it is, and I've never said that.

There needs to be something done... but a National Health Care system is not going to be the magic cure (Pun intended).

taxes? what taxes? most of these people have had to sell their homes to pay for the medical they needed prior...they now live with someone else or are living in low income housing which is a whole other subject for me.... ive got some clients who's meds alone are over $7000 a month this not including the treatments, doc visits, hospitalization,etc...

You do know that a natioanl Health Care plan is funded form taxes and will be for TAX PAYERS.

If they are not paying taxes, they will not benifit from the current suggested plans either... so again, we are going to have to look for another solution...

And, you can't afford health insurance right now... so, do you just think you'll get a magic insurnace card in the mail for "Free" from Uncle Sam? No - look at how tight your budget is now... and picture it with even less in your paycheck when taxes are raised to pay for that medcal insurance card....

Here's a good example for you... Think about it, your paycheck going down by over $500 a month for a "FREE" government funded healthcare program.... that's More than I pay right now for health insurance!

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010374

"This exercise is especially instructive, because it reveals where the "single-payer," universal coverage folks end up. Democrats who run the Wisconsin Senate have dropped the Washington pretense of incremental health-care reform and moved directly to passing a plan to insure every resident under the age of 65 in the state. And, wow, is "free" health care expensive. The plan would cost an estimated $15.2 billion, or $3 billion more than the state currently collects in all income, sales and corporate income taxes. It represents an average of $510 a month in higher taxes for every Wisconsin worker.

Employees and businesses would pay for the plan by sharing the cost of a new 14.5% employment tax on wages. Wisconsin businesses would have to compete with out-of-state businesses and foreign rivals while shouldering a 29.8% combined federal-state payroll tax, nearly double the 15.3% payroll tax paid by non-Wisconsin firms for Social Security and Medicare combined.

This employment tax is on top of the $1 billion grab bag of other levies that Democratic Governor Jim Doyle proposed and the tax-happy Senate has also approved, including a $1.25 a pack increase in the cigarette tax, a 10% hike in the corporate tax, and new fees on cars, trucks, hospitals, real estate transactions, oil companies and dry cleaners. In all, the tax burden in the Badger State could rise to 20% of family income, which is slightly more than the average federal tax burden. "At least federal taxes pay for an Army and Navy," quips R.J. Pirlot of the Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce business lobby.

As if that's not enough, the health plan includes a tax escalator clause allowing an additional 1.5 percentage point payroll tax to finance higher outlays in the future. This could bring the payroll tax to 16%. One reason to expect costs to soar is that the state may become a mecca for the unemployed, uninsured and sick from all over North America. The legislation doesn't require that you have a job in Wisconsin to qualify, merely that you live in the state for at least 12 months. Cheesehead nation could expect to attract health-care free-riders while losing productive workers who leave for less-taxing climes."


If this were put in place, how many businesses are going to close up shop and MOVE to another state to save form having to pay those taxes? How many Jobs lost?

What about people like me that pay about $250 a month for health insurance that would see that $250 replaced by a figure over DOUBLE THAT for a state run health insurance???

EDIT: FYI - it's been a great debate. I've got some errands to run this evening and I'm about to leave the office. So, if I don't respond, dot' get all cocky thinking you shut me up!! - Like the terminator, I'll be back!!!