yup...there is one great source for upending your Christian friends and neighbors and showing them the error of their ways.



ready?

This site will equip the Christian and the HATERS alike in evening the battlefield to a draw of monumentally insurmountable endless debate over intellectual hypocrisy at its finest.

This site is so cleverly crafted, it will take an in depth personal analysis of a lifelong committment to get it RIGHT!!!

Yes. my friends...the cut and paste world does have its secrets and I am exposing one of the best for your personal enrichment and perusal.

This site has been up since 2001 and I can find no reason why any should contemptuously disregard this post as offensive and purely argumentative.

This site deserves a look see.

By all!!!

In the Christian camp and otherwise. The war of words has a profound alternative aspect to it that can equip all to eclipse this very well developed site's strategy for rebuking the Christian argument..in other words, this is anti-apologetics 101.

I have studied it and have found it to be a useful tool.

Where I stand on it is of no direct consequence to any when considering my motive to share this site with all of you.

I will say, however, that this does seem to be the source of a cut and paste antithesis aimed at the Christian community and specifically relevant to contrary arguments posited here at JSH in opposition to the Christian message of God's love.

I hope everyone enjoys it immensely. Perhaps now the arguments can be further comprehended as having some contextual value in that the black and white of the Christian Haters dogma can be found here in substance.

Further, it does appear to be a blueprint for the coming of the "anti-christ" so often ignored in these discussions.

Good Luck in your studies!!!

The site is ... http://www.messiahtruth.com/response.html

Please. don't flag this or moderate it away. Fair and balanced, as they say.

Hey I love talking about Prophecy...Blessings...Miles

If you research carefully you'll find Jesus never existed and is only a personification of the Sun as was a plethora of other Sun Gods that came before him. The sun is the most adorned object of all time, the giver of life. The night and darkness was always personified as being evil. Bad vs. good, the darkness vs. the light is the most ubiquitous duality known to man. Ancient people personified constellations and different groupings of stars which they created elaborate myths about. We still call many of them the same names. Jesus is just the personified version of the sun we follow through our current age or precession of the equinoxes. The ancient Egyptians along with other cultures long before them recognized that approximately every 2150 years the sunrise on the morning of the spring equinox would occur at a different sign of the Zodiac. This has to do with a slow angular wobble that the Earth maintains as it rotates on it's axis. Jesus was "born" at the beginning of the age of Pisces which is symbolized by two fish. The Jesus fish you see on the back of people's cars is one example of the symbolism of the current age we're in.

Jesus' birth sequence is completely astrological. There is a very interesting phenomenon that occurs around December 25th, or the winter solstice. From the summer solstice to the winter solstice, the days become shorter and colder. From the perspective of the northern hemisphere, the sun appears to move south and get smaller and more scarce. The shortening of the days and the expiration of the crops when approaching the winter solstice symbolized the process of death to the ancients. It was the death of the Sun. By December 22nd, the Sun's demise was fully realized, for the Sun, having moved south continually for 6 months, makes it to it's lowest point in the sky. Here a curious thing occurs, the Sun stops moving south, at least perceivably, for 3 days. During this 3 day pause, the Sun resides in the vicinity of the Southern Cross, or Crux, constellation. After this time on December 25th, the Sun moves 1 degree, this time north, foreshadowing longer days, warmth, and Spring. Thus it is said, the Sun died on the cross, was dead for 3 days, only to be resurrected or born again. This is why Jesus and numerous other Sun Gods share the crucifixion, 3-day death, and resurrection concept. It is the Sun's transition period before it shifts its direction back into the Northern Hemisphere, bringing Spring, and thus salvation. The star in the east is Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky, which, on December 24th, aligns with the 3 brightest stars in Orion's Belt. These 3 bright stars are called today what they were called in ancient times, The Three Kings. The Three Kings and the brightest star, Sirius, all point to the place of the sunrise on December 25th. This is why the Three Kings "follow" the star in the east, in order to locate the sunrise, the birth of the sun. However, they did not celebrate the resurrection of the Sun until the spring equinox, or Easter. This is because at the spring equinox, the Sun officially overpowers the evil darkness, as daytime thereafter becomes longer in duration than night, and the revitalizing conditions of spring emerge.

I could go on but I'm sure you get the point. The Bible has more to do with astrology than anything else. Most of the Bible, including the story of Moses, the great flood, the ten commandments and so on and so forth are plagiarized from the ancient Egyptian religion.

Hi there.

Well then.....I suppose there is always more to chat about in any case.

Did you know that Jesus was born during the Feast of Tabernacles, according to the accounts in the Bible?

You see, that is not in December. BUt it is in the twelfth month of the Jewish Calender, which means September.

Some even argue for April.

I cpouldn't care less, except to say that the Bible says September.

I am not making a distinction to be argumentative though.

I am merely drawing the point of my OP to why I dared share it in the first place.

That being that there are many consistent arguments repeatedly offered against Christianity that are formed outside of Christian premise. And that the arguments all have nothing to do with Christianity when opposed to it.

It has more to do with apologetics of personal belief systems and how we all have them.

But the defining moment comes when a circular debate is reduced to the sullying accusations of one's sincerity over another's.

I find a pertinence to the information on the site I have shared because of its emotionally charged purpose.

That purpose is to defend a positional doctrine that is not of universal appeal, and assumes that Christianity is the root cause of its own obscurity.

But much like Christian Chrches, it asks for donations to supprt the cause at the bottm of the front page.

The hypocrisy is loud.

BUt WOW!!! The stars are aligned for reasons and that cannot be altered.

I am amazed at ther accuracy of measurements that can be gleaned from astronomical observations. That is very useful to unerstanding how mathematic laws have been develpoed to some degree.

Hey! enjoy the read! The site is interesting!



ps..forgive the need for a spell check LOL

Anyone who believes that someone would burn in hell for not believing in ancient mythology must also believe that God is a demon.

No loving God would be so ignorant.

It doesn't require a genius to figure that one out.

God can't be less loving than mere mortals, yet most mortals would not be so pathetic as to send good people to hell just because they don't believe in an unconfirmed mythology.

The idea that an all-powerful creator of this universe would "need" to have himself nailed on a cross to save humanity is the most absurd idea I can possibly imagine.

It's utterly silly if you just stop and think about it with the slightest bit of sanity.

It flies in the face of God being all-powerful, all-knowing, all-wise, all-perfect, and all the rest of it.

Even lowly mortals can figure out better solutions.

It was a poorly written story made up by people who had a very limited imagination.

I think I can state that as a fact, because in order for it to not be true, God would either need to be a moron or an outright demon. Either one fails to live up to the kind of loving all-wise deity God is supposed to be.

In short, the story is impossible because it’s totally self-inconsistent.

Next!

Can you please site some verses that support that?

There are at least two sides to every story and then there is the truth...

Interesting post wouldee...

Abra,

I didn't write that book my friend

Nor did Jesus.

He appeared on the human stage at that time, in that part of the world and contextualized the message around the local dogma and rhetoric at the very least, didn't he?

Where would you have him come from, if at all?

Should he have not been born at all, or born and lived in quiet anonymity and not embraced what was in His heart?

Is it demogogery?(sic)

What then?

Should His life be reduced to insults?

I find it disengenuous that many critics will argue the finer points of religious doctrine yet embrace the wrods of a man that clearly have moved many generations of men to move civilizations' landscape to somehow acceed to His popular demand without really embracing His totality as a form of government.

His words are selectively admired and despised and by most there is something likeable about His presence.

Its just laughable to me that the world wants it both ways.

The Bible says this, and the Bible says that.

Who really reads it and studies it?

Not the debaters for the most part.

But those that seem to have some loss or apparent cost attached to it that is unacceptable for even daring to digest the most controversial writing in the History of Man.

From that perspective, I find reason to explore more deeply its effect and affect on humanity and myself.

But intellectually, it is a vain exercise in futility.

Spiritually, it requires supernatural answers to be fully comprehended, and even then only a glimpse is offered and that glimpse is of a personal nature.

The consensus that exists in the world is an inclusive one from everybody. And not everybody is a Jew or a Christian.

How then can the world hold the criteria for judging a personal revelation that influences the individual to act on a belief and purpose to preserve the availability of that opportunity?

The debate is contrived and overblown, my friend.

It s, after all, about choices.

love ya, my friend.

Sure...read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. in the New Testament.

Here is biblical proof that Paul used a modern day technique called "rapport" to seduce people and win them to his faith.
Or else you can just call it deceit. He was like a used car salesman or a pick up artist.


Corinthians 9:20-22: To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law -- though not being myself under the law -- that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law -- not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ -- that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak.

I think the details of the story of the life of the man call Jesus are extremely questionable. My guess is that a mortal man named Jesus had a huge impact on people and he was wrongly crucified and made into a martyr, and finally into God himself.



I don’t think there was necessarily anything wrong with how Jesus lived his life. In fact, since we can’t have any real clue of how it might have truly lived we don’t really know what he might have been like in reality. Assuming that these stories were indeed sparked by a single man. There are scholars who believe that it was a historical period when there were many doomsday preachers. The story of Jesus might have actually been concocted from the lives of many different men.



I believe the biblical version is. Yes I do.



Not knowing the truth of his life who can say?

It seems to me that even the Gospels mock him by claiming that he ever said that only those who believe in him will find everlasting life. I personally believe that if there is any truth to that interpretation at all, it’s not a matter of believing in the divinity of Jesus, but rather in believing in what he taught. That makes much more sense. If you do what he taught (whether you acknowledge him or not) you’ll find heaven right here on earth. In fact, you don’t need to necessarily “follow” his teachings. It may well be possible that you just naturally agree with him and would live the way he taught naturally.

In fact, if you actually give any credit to the Gospels at all, they have Jesus saying that not everyone needs a spiritual physician. I personally feel that he may very well have said that and he wasn’t being sarcastic either!




In my opinion Jesus didn’t teach anything differnet from what Buddha taught. In fact, I personally believe that much of what Jesus taught he actually learned from having read about the works of Buddha and other Eastern Mystic. I think the whole idea of Jesus having died to ‘pay’ for the sins of many was made up by the authors of the gospels. Demagoguery, as you say. Tell the people what you’d like them to believe.



The point of fact is that we don’t have ‘his words’. Every keeps referring to the scriptures as the ‘words of Jesus’, but the fact is that there isn’t a single solitary word in the Bible that was actually written by Jesus. Everything in the Bible is hearsay.

We really don’t have a clue what the man ever said, precisely. All we have is what the writers of the gospels would like us to believe. And I personally do believe that the gospels are demagoguery. I don’t believe that each gospel represents a single document written by a single author. I believe that these were stories that may have gone through many revisions before they finally reach the form that they have in the Bible. The original authors may more may not have had good intentions, but I believe that as these stories were revised more and more demagoguery was added.

Most scholars believe that these stories affected each other. In other words, it’s not true that there are four ‘totally separate’ gospels. What exists is four different versions of a single story, and those four different versions were most likely affects by each other as they evolved.

On that page you posted the Jews are claiming that there were over 300 such stories, but only four were selected to be placed in the Bible because the other 296 either didn’t include, or outright contradicted, the things that the demagoguerists wanted to include in the Bible.

In other words, we don’t have enough information to say anything about the man named Jesus.

But we can say that the demagoguery is self-inconsistent with the Godhead its claiming to idolize.

Paul just could have been alot like myself, having tasted many different flavors of this human existance and never having been filled until he tasted of that which fills...

We all walk our own path, that onto which our own steps lead us...

I'm asking YOU to cite specific verses to support you're claim. For example, at Luke 22:10 when Jesus is asked by his disciples where the next passover will be, Jesus replies, "Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you bearing a pitcher of water... follow him into the house where he entereth in." This scripture is one of the most revealing of all the astrological references. The man bearing a pitcher of water is Aquarius, the water-bearer, who is always pictured as a man pouring out a pitcher of water. He represents the age after Pisces, and when the Sun (God's Sun) leaves the Age of Pisces (Jesus), it will go into the House of Aquarius, as Aquarius follows Pisces in the precession of the equinoxes. All Jesus is saying is that after the Age of Pisces will come the Age of Aquarius.

Another example would be the misconception of the end times. Apart from the cartoonish depictions in the Book of Revelation, the main source of this idea comes from Matthew 28:20, where Jesus says "I will be with you even to the end of the world." However, in King James Version, "world" is a mistranslation, among many mistranslations. The actual word being used is "aeon", which means "age." "I will be with you even to the end of the age." Which is true, as Jesus' Solar Piscean personification will end when the Sun enters the Age of Aquarius. The entire concept of end times and the end of the world is a misinterpreted astrological allegory.

HI Jeannie,

There are more of those on the site I brought up \\That is a good one, isn't it?

That is not what he meant , but that is a good lift of excellent cut and paste!!!

they also cite Romans 3:7 and Phillipians 1:18, too!

One should read the context surrounding those passages to get a better understanding of the writer's point.

But, yeah, on the surface it does sound like a contrivance is being used to lure people into Christian thought.

Hi

Yeah, I went looking through it to find it myself. I can't honestly find it. The closest thing I found was John the Baptist's birth accredited to starting in the sixth month of the year and after mary helped Elizabeth to the ninth month of her cousin's pregnancy, she left. Putting John born in the third month. Some nine months later is possible for Jesus' birth. Still looking....perhaps it is inferred more than explicit after all. I will look again.

All in all, the "end of the age" and not the "end of the world" I am in agreement with you. That is what I read as well.

But still, the voices are about human interpretation of peripheral events, once again. This is what makes the controversies over Jesus so distracting.

And so very rivetting too!!!!

Zack, If you think Jesus never existed, then do you think the Christ ever existed,(hung on a cross) that Christianity is named after, or do you think Immanuel,or Esu ,maybe was son of Mary and Joseph of Nazareth? How about Joshua ben Joseph(carpenter's son) , son of Mary and Joseph, You think maybe Sananda could be this Jesus that was hung on a cross?

Hi Folks!!

Please... remembber that I am only giving you the topic to do with what you will.

It is very interesting to me. There is a lot there to study.

Enjoy the challenge of ferreting out the truth...it will be difficult without studying the languages and the scriptures themselves. The way the grammar is transliterated and the useage of words is paramount to making the scripture sing in private interpretation.

The site's authors and supporters have their point of view and that point of view does carry certain preferences for building a case with scriptural support that decries the validity oof scripture as a viable reference for the fulfilling of scriptural prophecies by Jesus appearance on the scene.

My own studies have revealed manipulations of scripture and grammar and the voracity of words used directly, and those implied by necessity of grammatical discipline when translating and transliterating different passages to another tongue, have been used to manipulate the meaning after the fact.

The rules of grammar are selectively contrived to say many things. Some are outright fabrications.

Others are inherited illegitimacies from later texts lacking the credibility of the earliest known copies of the Old Testament written in the original tongue of Hebrew.

To follow along without study and muse at the site's findings and positions is not what I had hoped would be the course of this posts tenor in sharing it with you all.

It might be helpful to also point out that there is more to modern day Israel than most tend to acknowledge about the will and direction of that nation.

Clearly, te Jewish state is hoping to see the LORD appear and justify their suffering and long standing charge to hold their ground without directly affecting the fulfilling of propheecies that they hold as immutably meant for Israel and thier people all over the face of the Earth.

That is a sincere hope and a very tenacious hold on being found faithful to God from their position and fortune in life.

That needs to be understood by all that scripture is not taken lightly by the Jewish people, nor is God taken lightly at all!!!

The differences between grace vs. law is a serious doctrinal divide and not one for platitudes to be qualifying the credibility of.

The light of day on all things true and false, well intentioned or contrived compose the friction that exists in Biblical interpretation and understanding.

Some is a matter of willful obedience and adherence to practical matters, some of it is spiritually discerned and evidenciary by personal experience, and even further, is included te similarities of the stories involved that convey these messages from God that altogether mirror other cultural beliefs and traditions.

Both Jews and Christians can doctrinally agree and scripturally support not seeking after other Gods, and the pursuit of such knowledge is frowned upon as a breach of faith.

That reminder serves to avail the clear discussion of similarities and difference that comprise a whole that is not entirely within our capacity to exercise deliberations over the truth of all sources, but does lend itself to the inclusion of possibilities that the whole world has been navigated and migrated in many overlapping and convoluted patterns over the thousands of years of recorded history and certainty cannot always accompany the mythology depicted as just that.

Once again, my purpose is to share the dissension, avail it for study, expose its use as a cut and paste source of contentiousness and afford it due course to be sustained or refuted on the qualities of its own merits and its claims.

Just another light switch being turned on.

Is there any non-Biblical historical evidence of any person, living with the name Jesus, the Son of Mary, who traveled about with 12 followers, healing people and the like? There are numerous historians who lived in and around the Mediterranean either during or soon after the assumed life of Jesus. How many of these historians document this figure? Not one. However, to be fair, that doesn't mean defenders of the Historical Jesus haven't claimed the contrary. Four historians are typically referenced to justify Jesus' existence. Pliny the younger, Suetonius and Tacitus are the first three. Each one of their entries consists of only a few sentences at best and only refer to the Christus or the Christ, which in fact is not name but a title. It means the "Anointed one". The fourth source is Josephus and this source has been proven to be a forgery for hundreds of years. Sadly, it is still sited as truth.

You would think that a guy who rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven for all eyes to see and performed the wealth of miracles acclaimed to him would have made it into the historical record. It didn't because once the evidence is weighed, there are very high odds that the figure known as Jesus, did not even exist.

The reality is Jesus was the Solar Deity of the Gnostic Christian sect, and like all other Pagan gods, he was a mythical figure. It was the political establishment that sought to historize the Jesus figure for social control. By 325 a.d. in Rome, emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicea. It was during this meeting that the politically motivated Christian Doctrines were established and thus began a long history of Christian bloodshed and spiritual fraud. And for the next 1600 years, the Vatican maintained a political stranglehold on all of Europe, leading to such joyous periods as the Dark Ages, along with enlightening events such as the Crusades, and the Inquisition.

Christianity, along with all other theistic belief systems, is the fraud of the age. It served to detach the species from the natural world, and likewise, each other. It supports blind submission to authority. It reduces human responsibility to the effect that "God" controls everything, and in turn awful crimes can be justified in the name of Divine Pursuit. And most importantly, it empowers those who know the truth but use the myth to manipulate and control societies. The religious myth is the most powerful device ever created, and serves as the psychological soil upon which other myths can flourish.

I have read about this stuff too. Astrology was a hidden science and later forbidden by the Church because its meanings held too much truth.

It is my personal idea (thought) that the age of Pisces ends on December 21, 2012, which is the end of the Mayan Calendar as it has been translated from our (Christian) calendar.

Why else would they have ended a calender if it were not the end of an age? The age of Pisces is the age of the Christ. Something new will come after that. The man with the water Pitcher represents a new road for the consciousness of man.

What really happens on that date is interesting. The Sun (our sun) will cross the galactic equator of the milky way (our galaxy).
The sun will cross to the other side of the galaxy, where it is said to be populated by more stars. That crossing could be a dangerous one for the earth and the solar system.

I think the precession will pass into Aquarius around 2150 on the Gregorian calender but, December 21, 2012 is an interesting date. I've recently really started reading into the Myans. I've read bits and pieces here and there in the past but now I'm trying to become a little better versed in their calenders and predictions. I read somewhere that other ancient calenders throughout the globe end at the same time. I haven't studied this enough to fully comprehend everything. What I've read about it so far is VERY intriguing though.