Woodee

I never said the law saved us. The scripture speaks of the LAWLESSONE to come. How can he be lawless if thier is no law? This is Satan's slipping into decieve those who can not and will not but openly refuse the word. Yahshua Our Messiah. The word is the law. when Yahshua cames back most of the worlds population will be gone. Those who have followed him will be ready for the 1000 year regign. Those who did not accept the blood Yahshua gave to us. Will then be under the law as it was before. The Prophets speak of this. Life is in the blood. He comes back with a new name. To rule with a rod of iron. Those who chosen will help administer as judges. some as Yahshua spoke in the parable of the talents. Some a city some 10 some 100. Zech. 14 clearly says the law will be enforced. yes the law is our schoolmaster. To teach and observe that we will be ready as Yahshua's Priests as Peter says. The word fullfill has been so characterized as being done away that you believe it. After Yahshua said this he went on to speak of the spirit of the law. That your rightousness must exceed the rightousness of the Pharasees. The in Math 23 he tells those around him as he blasts the pharasees that they sit in MOSES SEAT. Do as they say not as they do for they will not lift one finger. If you had a job today at a factory making chairs and at the end of the day you told your supervisor you fullfilled your quota. Then does this mean the guy on the next shift can do whatever he wanted because you fullfilled making a chair? Do stop going to work because you fullfilled something? No. It only means you did what was required of you. Yahshua came so we could have life. Showed us how to live this life. Then being perfect gave his life for us because we as sinners were worthy of death. The curse of not obeying the law. Hebrews says that.You say you follow the messiah you want to be like him sinless. You do what hebrews says when you say this than do not try to live like he did. How did he live? What made him perfect? It was not breaking the law. he came to fullfill that the law is rightous and Holy and Good. This he proved. He rose above the law. being above the law he had the right to take away the curse of death from the law by taking that curse upon himself. This does not mean that him taking away the sins of the world when he did this that we are free to sin. Again Paul said this.You do not understand because of the same reason almost most people do not. I hope it is because you can not believe your training all your life trying to do the very best you could only to find out it was all a lie and not rebellion. Because we know what the sin of rebellion is like. I am trying to say all this as gentle as i can. You have no idea who I am or where i come from. You just have to reach down deep and decide am I going to suck up my pride and prove me right or wrong without using dead works to justify the tradition that the church is. like you said it is personal. Between you and the Messiah. I believe I showed the believers were keeping the law years after Yahshua's death. I did not see you refute that Paul Yahshua's CHOSEN vessel acted as a priests and took 4 men in the temple for 7 days paid thier expences and offered up sacrafices to Yahweh. Ending thier vowel.. I know this seems very strange. But what did yahshua really mean when he said in 3 days he would destroy this temple? It did not happen 3 days after his death. That is a reality you need to know what was meant because you know thier are many who will try to rip you apart because you can not answer them. Yes we became the temple but this was 50 days after Yahshua rose to the heavens and waved the wave sheaf as our High priest. Why did he do that? What else happened after he rose before his father? Why could mary not touch him because he had not risen//appeared before his father? After he did he could come to us . Why? The law says why? You hold your eternal life in your own hands. Do you care so little for it youself you will not do a real gut check of what will get you thier? You said alot of words for a responce to what i had written. You could tell you were angry.You could not deny what I had just posted the same as anyone else here. You are not alone. Prove the scriptures. For in them you believe you have eternal life. Even Abra has said if he believed that he would want to know it like the back of his hand. Put it in practice. Thier is nothing like experience in any field of study or work. Abra when he learned the basics of his field and then went on to learn all he had to, to be what he is i would bet you he will say without knowing the basics very well that he could not do what he does. The scriptures are no different. The OT was physical. The NT is spiritual. The spiritual though comes from practicing and knowing the physical. The only way we are saved is by mercy. mercy always triumphs. Mercy is like a pardon. You have broken the law in the past. If you do it again willingly are you pardoned? Is that how your family is run? Yahweh is making us his family. To those who believe in him. and WANT NOT FORCED. To do his will. And his will to those who love him is trying to be perfect as Yahweh is Perfect. Which Yahshua did. We are to strive for perfection...Are you ready to do as Yahshua said? Be Perfect as your father in heaven is perfect. Yahshua said the Master is not above his servant. Be an adopted son. It is all up to you. It is your choice. May Yahweh Have Mercy and show all of Us His Will....... Blessings of Shalom....Miles

There actually is alot of histroical proof of Jesus being real.

For instance, no one—especially your literature teacher—questions the authenticity of the epic poem The Iliad by the ancient Greek poet Homer. In fact, it is the second most well-documented historical writing in existence, with 643 manuscripts still surviving, the oldest complete text dating from the 13th century. Quite impressive!

Now consider the ancient text that is the most well-documented.

By a late 20th-century reckoning, there are over 5,300 surviving ancient Greek manuscripts, 10,000 in Latin and over 9,300 other early-language versions for a grand total of 24,633 manuscripts of this document—the one we call the New Testament of the Bible! This amounts to phenomenal historical validity. This ancient text, by far the most reliably preserved of any, thus validates Jesus Christ's historical existence (Josh McDowell, Evidence That Demands a Verdict, Vol. 1, pp. 39-40).
Proof #2: His biblical biography

photoThis is the internal, biblical proof that Jesus historically existed. The New Testament presents a collection of 27 different historical (and divinely inspired) documents written in the first century. From Jesus' birth to about A.D. 100, these books and letters record the life and times of Jesus Christ plus the existence and work of His group of followers—the Church of God. With three exceptions, the authors were His immediate disciples and two of His half-brothers (James and Jude)—all men who knew Him well.

The first of the three exceptions was Mark, who appears to have recorded the eyewitness account of the apostle Peter. Second is Paul, an apostle to whom Jesus personally appeared (1 Corinthians 15:8). Third is Luke, the physician who traveled with Paul (Colossians 4:14).

Luke's systematically thorough, historical approach sparkles in the introduction to his biography of Christ: "Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed" (Luke 1:1-4).

You will find in the book of Luke detailed research based on interviews with eyewitnesses who themselves personally knew, heard and saw Jesus during His human lifetime and ministry. Historically, Luke's work is typical of the rest of the New Testament's detailed and true-to-life presentation of Jesus.

Theophilus, in case you're interested, was a true believer who either commissioned Luke's research and writing, or to whom it was simply dedicated. Luke also wrote the book of Acts (Acts 1:1), the Church history that spanned its first three decades.

The New Testament thus provides solid, testimonial proof, replete with amazing detail, of the literal, historical existence of Jesus.
Proof #3: His reputation in secular history

Proverbs 11:14 says, "In the multitude of counselors there is safety." An important part of evaluating historicity is multiple references to the event and/or person in various historical sources. The logic is, if Jesus existed with the societal impact the Bible says He had, then He should be mentioned in other ancient histories. And so He was. Here are a few:

• Flavius Josephus (A.D. 37-100) wrote a monumental history, Antiquities of the Jews, in which he referred to Jesus twice. In section 18.3.3 he called Jesus "the Christ" and wrote of His "marvelous deeds." In section 20.9.1 he referred to the trial of James and identified him as the "the brother of Jesus, the so-called Christ."

• Pliny the Younger, governor of Bithynia (in northern Turkey), wrote a letter (Epistle X.96) to Roman Emperor Trajan (c. A.D. 112) seeking counsel on how to deal with Christians whose practice it was to meet on appointed days to sing a hymn "to Christ as if to God."

• Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman historian who, in his Annals (XV.44, c. A.D. 115), wrote of "Christus" (from Christos, Greek for "Christ") who "was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius."

• Suetonius, the popular Roman writer, about A.D. 120 described how the Emperor Claudius commanded the Jews to depart from Rome for "continually making disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus" (Vita Claudii XXV.4). "Chrestus" is again a corrupted form of Christos (Christ). Luke made reference to this situation in Rome in Acts 18:2.

During the later part of the second through the fifth centuries, many more historical references to Jesus were made in Jewish rabbinical literature, especially the Talmud. Several prominent pagan philosophers—Celsus, Lucian of Samosata and Porphyry of Tyre—wrote attacks on Jesus, His teachings and followers. Early Christian writers and church leaders—Polycarp (c. A.D. 69-155), Irenaeus (c. A.D. 130-200) and others—wrote extensively about Jesus Christ as well.

Archaeology has also contributed tremendously to our knowledge of the historicity of Christ through excavations on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and elsewhere in Israel, Turkey, Greece and Rome. These excavations have confirmed the Bible's amazing historical accuracy.

The Good News magazine, a sister publication also produced by the United Church of God, ran a 24-part series of articles on the Bible and archaeology proving this point. You may read or download these at www.gnmagazine.org/archaeology.

From these secular and biblical references and archaeology combined, we know more about the life of Jesus than we do about virtually any other person in the ancient world!
Proof #4: His followers

As a supertanker creates a massive wake and as an elephant impresses huge and unmistakable tracks in the soil, so a great religious leader leaves a path of followers behind him. Buddhism came from Buddha, Confucianism came from Confucius, Islam from Muhammad.

By founding His true Church, Jesus Christ spawned a massive religious movement through the centuries. Today Christianity is the largest religious movement on earth, with well over two billion followers. Sadly, the vast majority of these traditional Christians know little of the actual truth and gospel of the Kingdom of God that Jesus preached, but they do profess to follow Him. The very existence of such a vast following throughout history validates the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth!

Jesus' book, the Bible, is historically sound, therefore His biblical biography is historically sound. The secular references to Him in history are readily located, and the existence of a massive following through the centuries points directly to His historical existence. The proofs of Christ's historicity stand firm and sound. But all this begs an answer to one more question: What will you do with what you now know?

There's no running away from the truth that Jesus Christ existed as a man and continues to exist as the Son of God soon to come again to an earth near you. He wants you as one of His true followers preparing for His return. He wants you to be living proof of His existence!

We seldom hear of anyone challenging the historicity of Muhammad, Confucius or Buddha. But many, especially of the evolutionary, atheistic orientation, challenge the historical existence of Christ. Why is that?

It is because the true Jesus Christ of the Bible and history makes people feel uncomfortable—even guilty. That's because not only is He something, He stands for something—the great moral and spiritual authority of God's divine law.

Those who want to freely live immoral lives, particularly sexually immoral, don't want to be reminded that their behavior is sinful. Their reaction is to "kill the messenger"—Jesus Christ Himself— in a futile effort to destroy the law of love. In other words, if Christ didn't really exist, then there would be no divine law and no reason to feel guilty for one's sins.

It doesn't work, by the way. They still feel guilty. There's only one solution for that guilt—repentance! (Mark 1:14-15)
About the author:

I haven't had time to read most of these posts yet ;but based on what I have read thus far, may I share something here?

People won't understand Jesus until they are born again (that means accepting Jesus into our hearts and meaning it).

But UNTIL then, Jesus is NOT going to make sense, and that is quite understandable....hence the reason I won't argue the Word of God with anyone.

I think we need to just Love one another... share the Word...share our own testimonies...but don't argue...and let God , thru the Power of His Holy Spirit, do the Rest. Amen?

GOD IS SPIRIT...and can ONLY be understood thru a BORN AGAIN spirit of man...... so therefore, trying to argue about God here with our INTELLECT , won't gain a thing .

Sweet People here....God will NEVER be understood thru our Intellect...EVER!!
Why?
Again....Cause God is SPIRIT......and that is why it takes a BORN AGAIN spirt of man.... to understand the things of God.

But UNTIL a man's
spirit is truly born again, the things of God will appear as FOOLISHNESS and NONSENSE unto man..and QUITE UNDERSTANDABLY SO...... and this is why all this talk of Jesus ,just doesn't make sense to the world !!

But for those who DO want to know the truth about this Jesus of whom the Bible speaks(notice I said the bible, and not christians)...just ask GOD to become REAL to you..first step..and He Will.

The reason I say look to God's Word ,and not just look to christians ,is.... some christians can get you caught up in their point of views ,and nothing more (and no ,I am not referring to anyone on board...please know that...cause I haven't even had time to read all the forums yet.....just saying this in general...amen? )

Point is.... just because a christian says he is a christian, doesn't mean he/she is speaking the bonafide truth of the Word of God.
Again, not referring to anyone here.....

A lot of christians are just caught up in the letter of the law, and their spirits are just bound in religion.
The bible says, the letter of the law killeth but the spirit freeth....

So...if anyone wants to make sense of the things of God?
GO to God. Go to His Word.
Go to a spirit filled church, where the Word of God is being preached...not just dead religion.

So...First step......Just Ask God to make himself REAL to you.

God loves you all...just as you are.
He is the one Who does the changing of lives, after you ask Him into your hearts ....

So..just go talk to Him...be REAL with God....he wants just REAL people....come to Him just as you are.

And for you out there, who are ready to know about this Jesus...just say, "Jesus IF you are who you SAY you are, then make yourself REAL to me.
Come into my heart and be my Lord and Saviour. Amen".

See... you don't have to follow some religious formula ,to come to God. Just be yourself with God.

And quess what folks, He WILL become REAL to you ,and with you!!!

Then when you ask him into your heart and MEAN it, God will take it from there.
Your spirit THEN, WILL become born again..and FINALLY all this stuff about God will FINALLY MAKE SENSE!!!

But until then ?
All this talk about God is FOOLISHNESS to you...and that is understandable ,cause your spirit is not born again yet.

Again...God is Spirit, and can be ONLY understood thru a born again spirit, NOT thru Intellect.
So all this arguing on this board , about whether Jesus is real, for instance, is really quite fruitless.

Ask Jesus In....get REAL with Him right now.....and Jesus will GET REAL with You, Right Back!!.
Promise.
Hey, He is just waiting on You !!!


((((((Love and Hugs For All )))))))

Point is.... just because a christian says he is a christian, doesn;t mean he/she is speaking the bonafide truth of the word of God..there is still a lot of religious people out there....arguing the Word.....when they should just be walkking in the Word.
A lot of christians are just caught up in the letter of the law, and their spirits are just bouind in releigion.
The bible says, the letter of the law killeth but the spirit freth....

So...if anyone wants to make sense of the things of God?
GO to God. Go to His Word.
Go to a spirit filled church, where the Word od God is preached...not just dead religion.

So...First step......Just Ask God to make himself REAL to you.
Then Go pick up the bible .
And Read.





AMEN TO ALL YOU SAY MORNINGSONG......ESPECIALLY THE ABOVE......GOD BLESS

Miles,

Harsh as this may sound my friend, you are still dead in your sins.

You have neither the Holy Spirit nor an accurate intellectual comprehension of the GRACE of God.

You are saved by grace through faith and that notof your own doing, it is the gift of God.

You haven't received the gift or you wouldn't be fighting yourself so hard to fulfill the law and the commandments within the law.

You teach out of the subjective reservoir of your memory, by rote and endless repitition upon your conscience, but that doesn't prerequisite you to judge others. Even though I am expressing my own judgement against you.

You know not of what you speak. You are deceived by your religiousness and are acting out your need to be heasled in your own strength by reflecting your own life onto the lives of others that do not hold your positional criteria for walking in this life.

So, I shall say it again and this time perhaps, you shall heed your own advise and seek God's blessing on your own person.

You see, Miles, The Lord doesn't need us to preach and teach anyone anything other than Christ crucified and to pray in the power of the Spirit as intercessors on the behalf of the willing. Whjat we share is our testimony of what Jesus has done for us.

Lording over others and not sharing the access is hypocritical and errant. God is a far better teacher, Miles. We may fellowship and pray and study together, but the Lord is our righteousness. We hear His voice and we follow Him.

He does not lwead astray, Miles. Nor does he mock His will by steering us into the bindages of legalism.

We are free and free to love. We who have been shown this love can give this love. One must receive from God in order to share, Miles.

This is completely missing from your lectures.

Your faith is in the law and assimilating it into your life subjectively in the strength of your own understanding.

My faith is in Christ. I did not waste time in the minutia of trying to live righteously in my own strength. I sought God for His strength and His Living Word...I sought to be indwellt by the Holy Spirit as it is recorded to have been said by Jesus....see John 14-16 and then pray until you get it and pray with all you are until he answers you with instructions.

Don't lead men to men, Miles. You seek justification from men and seek approval from men. You are entirely on the wrong track.

You are not going to earn your way into his grace. It is free to the sincere and the surrendered heart .

Mercy comes at judgement. Crucify yourself to Christ and receive Him into yoiur life and let Him do the teaching and preaching as He will through you. You die that He may live in You. Then you will understand His mercy and grace and peace. But no one can understand it apart from Him.

We are all fallen, or carnal, or created beings with limitations...take your pick. Call it SIN!!!! Sin is error or mistakes in the Hebrew tongue, yet you mystify SIN as some great and separate big deal. It is simply error!!!!

But you go ahead and try to lie to yourself and suppose that you will overcome the ;aw someday...it will not happen, or many better than you or I would have already accomplished that feat.

Miles, the law cannot be mastered in the flesh, nor can any live up to it. It is an impossibility. Not happening.

Every time you fall short, you must try a new way to not be overcome by your inherent nature and reason and logic. It fails you and every one of us every single time.

This is why the Lord has given to us His Woed and His Spirit and His Eternal Life!!!!! Because we cannot justify ourselves nor earn our own righteousness. We are accountable for every failure.

Come to the LORD, Miles. Start your new life in Him.

Stop tormenting yoursaelf and killing yourself. You know you cannot beat the law into submission to your will, so why not do what Jesus has said and come to Him?

HIS YOKE IS EASY AND HIS BURDEN LIGHT!!!

Enter into His rest, Miles.

Unspeakable joy awaits you, my friend.


You aren't the only one Miles. Others, one and all are given the same message. This is nothing new that I am saying.

I am on the other side where the rest is. I am indwellt. I have equity with God. I am taught His wisdom and continue to be taught. I learn from Him every day. We are one! He is my God! HIs Father is my Father, but all things come through the Son, and to that end, I only know what the Son reveals in ME!~!!

This is not unique, Miles. It is not a new doctrine, Miles.

It is the gospel message of old.

It is GRACE, Miles, that saves you from yourself. And that by faith alone to enter in. Mercy will be known. Every error shall be known once He is present. Not by His running down your life to you, but by the leading in your life that He takes on for you. His ways are HIGHER than our understanding. Come to Him and be received tii know the difference. You cannot fabricate it for yourself, you must come to Him and from Him will the difference between night and day be known. The difference between whaT YOU THINK YOU KNOW AND HOW IT OUGHT TO BE AND HOW IT REALLY IS FROM hIS PERSPECTIVE AND FROM hIS GUIDANCE UPON YOUR SOUL AND hIS FRIENDSHIP WITH YOU IN YOUR sPIRIT THROUGHT hIS sPIRIT. sorry, cap lock key hit by a fat finger...LOL

Enough of this....I am out.

Peace.

Miles,

after writing this last response for so long...two more precede mine that are speaaking to you and others the same message.

This is what is meant in the scriptures about the word being spoken in the mouths of two or three witness, and in turn and by due course.

None of us are conspiring here, but speaking in our Spirits.

Perhaps Jesus Himself is speaking, Miles. It is like that, you know.

Yahshua did not say he prayed for the world. The world accepts it's own. I will not be presumptious as you and say you do not have the Holy Spirit. Yahweh gives to whoever mercy he wants.. Yet you say things I have never said. I have never said the law saves you. What I have said over and over is Yahshua did not preach another evangel than that was given before him. He lived it.Y&ou can not understand what I have written the same as the pharasees could not understand what Yahshua was thier for. Or his words to the most part. I do not have to justify myself to anyone except Yahweh. I am the temple of Yahweh. Yahweh is the same today yesterday and tommorrow. His sheep hear his voice and another they will not follow. You are responcible for what you know.Anyone who preaches another evangel other than Yahshua who did hia fathers will as our example. Is still listening to the great deciever who comes upon the whole earth seeking who he may devour.What you say to me is nothing new. I am in good company. I rejoice over it . Many much greater men than myself have been ridiculed before me.. Thank You Yahweh..... May Yahweh Be in The Hearts of His People...Blessings...Miles