I have no problem with smart people having guns under certain restrictions of course but I have a big problem with stupid people having guns, like those parents who leave a loaded gun within proximity of the kids, the abuser who uses his weapon as control over others, the mentally unwell who are not well enough to make decent decisions for themselves, etc.....

The problem here is that those idiot parents sometimes pass the licencing tests, the abuser passes the licencing test, the mentally ill pass the licencing test, etc.....

So how do we prevent the idiots from having weapons and the smart allowed to have them?

I am all for having a gun, was raised on it, choose not to have one now because I have kids in my house. If I lived alone I would probably have a licence to carry a concealed weapon, and may still do it one day but I will not have one around others who may not be mature enough to treat the gun with the respect it deserves.

Also an unloaded gun with the bullets on the other side of the roome will do you no good in the case of a break in. So if you cannot keep it loaded then don't keep one.

all of those restrictions are unconstitutional

shall not be infringed

who gives the test

remember when they used to make you take a test to vote in the south

the tests difficulty level depended on your race

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

A better question might be:

Why are the rates of violent crime committed with guns lower in other countries?

The United States has the highest mortality rate with crimes involving guns...while other countries do just fine with everyone having a gun in hand...I say blame the media, but that's just me.

not according to the stats on page one

8.4 of 29% =<35%

canada

5.4% of 5% >100%

germany

4.2 % of 7% >50%

per owner rate the us has lower crime

Switzerland has a higher gun rate per capita than the United States, yet virtually no gun crime.

http://pages.prodigy.net/vanhooser/the_swiss_and_their_guns.htm

switzerland issues guns upon reaching legal age

more that can defend themselves the less likely someone is to

attack them

smo...... You do not make yourself clear. Again, your problem is that you get an idea in your head and twist it to suit yourself. You keep throwing Marbury vs. Madison around, but do not understand what it is all about. Read my posts wherein I have explained that decision.

insert whistling--this is my land--emoticon here

This whole line of debate leaves out much of the entirety of the questions at hand. All the information available has certainly not been represented.. And some of what has been introduced has been spun in such a way, to fit the writers stance.



Comparing us to Switzerland, Australia or England, and justifying a point by it is either not too well thought out, or well thought out and omitting much of the truth.

Comparing South Dakota to Washington DC.. considering the vast differences in lifestyle and available acreage per person ~ Makes about as much sense as saying that sunshine is directly responsible for the suicide rate in southern California... simply because most suicides occur on sunny days there.

The biggest question:
Where do you think illegal guns come from?
Do you think they just somehow materialize out of thin air? That there are places in the woods that manufacture them? Like so many meth labs, pot fields or gin distilleries.

Illegal firearms generally start out as legal firearms. On this continent anyway. If I wanted to traffik in guns.. I can't just call up Sig Sauer or Glock and arrange for a drop shipment of hand guns and rifles.
I know where to go here in Oregon and purchase a weapon, if I was in the market. Usually the same place I'd go if I am in the market for anything black market or illegal. What I would be purchasing is a once legally owned firearm that was relieved of its owner at some point. How illegal weapons and drugs are distributed is about the only correlation between drugs and firearms there is.

How they are obtained is vastly different.

So.. this information kind of paints a different picture in the claim that gun control only removes the weapons from honest non-criminal citizens.

If there were fewer legal weapons available, there would be fewer illegal ones too!

Telling me that my defense is why I should carry and keep weapons is certainly not a convincing arguement either. I have carried and kept weapons. During that time? I found myself in some pretty precarious situations too. Most likely because I was under a false sense of security? Maybe because I was younger and otherwise not too bright? Maybe a combination of the two? Who really knows. All I can tell you is this: I now only use non lethal force to defend myself.. and it has been several years since I have felt a need to actively defend myself. Oddly? That directly coralates to when I decided to lose the weapons of deadly force.
There is also evidence available that indicates a weapon in the house increases the possibility of a homicide in your home by nearly 3 times. Suicide by almost 5 times.

I detest the age old claim that 'Guns don't kill people. People kill people.' I have met many that have survived a knife attack. Myself included. I have not met near as many that have survived an attack by firearm, in comparison.

I really love the argument that owning weapons is a deterent to tyranny too...
Really? Most people in Iraq owned weapons... How did that work out for them with Saddam Hussein? It was legal to own weapons in Germany too.. That stopped Hitler? Apparently the gun laws were reduced there too.. in 1938, unless you happened to be Jewish.

I am not necessarily for or against gun control. Many of the reasons I've listed above... are the reasons I chose to not have weapons of deadly force though.

I am for discussing the topic in its true colors, using the whole truth and from an educated point of view.

Resources
England
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb702.pdf
http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp
Australia
http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/homicide.html
http://www.aic.gov.au/stats/crime/weapons.html
Switzerland
http://www.almc.army.mil/ALOG/issues/NovDec00/MS575.htm
http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/en/index/infothek/publ.Document.97724.pdf
http://pages.prodigy.net/vanhooser/swiss_fact_sheet.htm

D.C.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/325/23/1615

Gun Ownership
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/329/15/1084
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/327/7/467

Gun ownership
http://www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/pdf_files/understanding_files/19_GUN%20OWNERSHIP.pdf

Guns are not the only things I would consider using for arms. A crossbow is nice and quiet,and very powerful. I still think those powerful old time bear traps could be useful in some situations And I hear that old microwave ovens with a little modifying could be good protection devices(arms) Some of those pulse things would probably work better than guns.(lasers)

Main thing is:the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.(It is the right to protect myself)

No offense meant by it Smo, but you might not be helping your side of the argument much. In fact.. I'd say there is a high probability you could very well be the poster child for gun control in this thread, after reading that post.

Chances are though.. you will either become a really bright, short lived 1k watt/3k volt DC light bulb, or do yourself some severe eye, brain and testicular damage. While trying to weaponize your microwave.


Which brings me to my next point...



Countries that have some minimum requirements of knowledge actually have a much higher success rate, in how their gun ownership effect their criminal statistics. Switzerland would be one of them... Japan another.

Switzerland's law indicates: To obtain a permit to bear arms one also has to pass an examination on the correct handling of weapons as well as a test on legislation on the use of firearms.

We also have a few laws in place that I kind of appreciate, and make perfect sense to me.

It is a Federal offense to have any firearm in your possession if you have been found guilty of misdemeanor Domestic Violence that has any of these elements.

* A current or former spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim;
* A person with whom the victim shared a child in common;
* A person who was cohabiting with or had cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or
guardian; or,
* A person who was or had been similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim.

It is a Federal offense to have a firearm in your possession during the term of a Protection order if you are:

* a spouse of Defendant/Respondent;
* a former spouse of Defendant/Respondent;
* an individual who is a parent of a child of Defendant/Respondent; or
* an individual who cohabitates or has cohabited with Defendant/Respondent.

Where the hell do people live that need a firearm for protection ??? I have had my house broken into once while I was here and woke up with a young man standing over my bed and my little dog barked and he ran out .. So chances are had there been a gun in my house .. A he could of used it on me or B there would be one dead kid and my life could/would be wounded.. Killing another human being is something I never want to experiance .. and those that say they have no problem with taking another HUMAN Life scream volumes about our society has a whole ... okay back to being silly ....


Hey Jist my brother from another mother ...

I've always wonder about this...my thinking is most criminals arent going to go by the law to get a gun when are people going to figure out that gun control is no control at all..

No.. now you're being silly.

All criminals are bound by a secret pact. They will not use a weapon they did not bring to the fight, against their victim.
If you offer them a beverage and cigarette. They will patiently wait for you to get your weapon and ammunition, unlock the weapon (If necessary), then load and chamber it before they proceed with attacking.

The problem is.. We just don't know these people play fair if we are polite.

It's people that point and shoot the guns...to stop it we need to take a few steps back and return to the times when there was always a parent in the house and a neighborhood where people knew each other..kids need to be brought up like most of us older folks were where my butt would paid for my mistakes and my parents weren't worried about getting arrested. Neighbors knew me and my family and would be on the phone with my mom if I was up to no good...I couldn't talk back to cops cause I had no rights. In my day no one ever thought of a gun yet most of my friends and I always played with toy guns all the time while we grew up.....am I being simplistic?...probably but it worked...

Either that or we can give them all magnetrons out of household microwaves to play with. Even if they don't light themselves up.. The prolonged radiation exposure will make them sterile in hardly any time!

I think that everything went like it should have .. I called 911 and made coffee while the officers came .. Scarey yes .. but no harm no foul ,, personaly my stuff can be replaced .. I have nothing material worth dying for .. my daughter another story .. but both of us were safe and just a little shaken up .. could this story have had a different ending absolutely .. but I did not provide the gun to the criminal... Besides the whole law of attraction philosophy makes me think that if you promote violence then maybe you are escalating it ...


Love the criminal code comment ..

How about just placing Value on all human life ... regaurdless of what we judge them to be ??