I would like to hear about the truly positive religions and philosophies for a change. Religions and philosophies that genuinely embrace love with out condemning it as a sin.

Religions and/or philosophies that allow for people to express their love via genuine and sincere loving physical intimacy without any need to willfully disobey a deity and be cast out of his grace because of their genuine and sincere love for one another.

I’m tired of hearing about the God who condemns love.

Tell me something positive and upbeat.

I don’t care whether it’s an official religion or your own personal philosophy. I don’t care whether it’s associated with a supreme deity or whether it’s a purely atheistic philosophy. Just share something positive. I’m really getting depressed hearing about the judgmental God who hates love and insists that it be a filthy sinful act that is considered to be willful disobedience.

Where’s the LOVE?

Please share any truly LOVING religions and/or philosophies that aren’t based on condemning love as a sin. I’m tired of hearing about the God of condemnation.

It's not just the God Card, played in the physical love aspect. Long before Christianity, most cultures still had structred views on the role sex played in their culture. Based on the maternal/paternal lineage within the society of knowing bloodlines. But Monogomay help controls the outbreaks of sexually transmitted diseases. Etc.

So Free Love isn't just a Sin for God, it's was based in our cultural way before then.

I understand that. Thank you.

But that wasn't the question.

This is the 21st century, we have methods of controlling disease, etc.

Let's just assume that we're talking about intelligent educated people here.

I’m not suggesting uncouth orgies based on lust.

I’m speaking to the issue of, ‘Genuinely Loving Intimacy'

Not, random sleeping around to satisfy an urge. That’s not LOVE, that’s LUST.

I’m speaking to the issue of genuine loving honest-to-goodness LOVE.

Even restricted to 'monogamy' if you like.

But not marriage or a life-long commitment. <--- key point!

Well, that's sort of the struggle I've been dealing with. I am a Christian, I believe in God, and my exhusband broke our wedding vows and filed for divorce.

So blah blah 10 years later and how do you get intimated withsome again when yes, you lust, but also a meaning of expression.

Too many rules, and it just adds to the confusion

Well, I’ve never married.

And I don’t think I should need to have to willfully disobey God and be cast out of his grace just because I never married. Nor do I feel that I should be punished with forced celibacy just because I can’t find a compatible mate for a life-long marriage.

There are women I can genuinely love, who have no desire to marry me, but who will gladly love me on a non-committed basis. I don’t need an angry judgmental God to tell me that would be wrong. I’m tired of that attitude. I’m talking about genuine compassion and love here. Not reckless uninvolved lust.

Evidently Christianity is for only happily married couples. Everyone else is condemned to a life of celibacy or cast into hell for willfully disobeying God.

Since I’m not married I guess Christianity isn’t for me. There’s no love in Christianity for single people.

I do struggle with this aspect......I know what the Bible says....but I also don't believe that a lesbian or gay person should not have love, nor do I believe in waiting until marriage to have sex...Nor do I believe in kid just having sex for the sake of it. This and abortion are struggles for me.....And I don't believe that what your saying about Christianity and single people. My oldest 15 is choosing to be celebate until marriage....this is her decision....and for young people especially now....I applaud them....But for myself I was brought up in a very different time. I lived with my husband for 10 years before we got married....But I would not have kids out of wedlock.....so yea this is a struggle for me.

I find this a little confusing.

When you say that you don’t believe these things, do you mean that you don’t believe that the Bible actually says them?

Or do you mean that the Bible does say them but you don’t believe the Bible correctly reflects the will of God? (i.e. either contains errors or has somehow been lost or distorted in translations, etc.?)

Or do you mean that you believe the Bible says them, and you believe that they are the will of God, but for some strange reason you don’t believe God is justified in demanding these things?

I’m just trying to understand exactly what it is that you don’t believe.

I can’t believe that God would expect these things either. And this is why I either must believe that the Bible is seriously flawed, or simply not God’s word to begin with.

I can’t very well believe that it’s the word of God and not believe that God would be like that at the same time.

It is precisely this kind of contradiction that causes me to reject the Bible. If I can’t believe that God would be like the Bible says, then why should I bother believing in the Bible at all?

And so I don’t.

Here's one for you Abra.

Back in the days when slaves were part of the American dichotomy, they were not considered, worthy, of being "married" as the white man was. They were "kept" and "sold" as the master saw fit, and therefore marriage and family had no role in thier status in life. HOWEVER, they believed in the bonding of a pair and the role of family in their lives. So they created their own marriage/celebration ceremonies. Many of these rituals took the form of "previous" cultural (or African) traditions, and were eventually merged with more American traditions. THEY FOUND A WAY to love and share their joy with those they considered "family".

Today, gays and lesbians are denied this freedom just as the slaves were. But just like the slaves, we believe in the bonding of a pair and the role of family in our lives. Sometimes there is a couple so overjoyed with the love they have found that they call thier "family" together to witness their joy, their committment and their love. And in front of this 'community' they share their vowes, not only, to each other, but with the "family" that surrounds them. They extent these vowes as committmants, to fight the wrongs and the injustices for others.

How much greater can love be? To feel compelled to turn a marriage/partnership vow into a partnership committed to using the love that holds them together to make society better.

THAT is a beautiful philosophy, one I have had the honor to witness. It may not be "traditional", but a valid and worthy tradition CAN stand the test of change. Even today, carrying the bride over the threshhold, comes from and African tradition of the couple jumping over a stick (the slaves used a broomstick). Tradition keeps us in touch with the past, but it can NOT bind us to its ways or we would never venture into the future.

HERE - is the love, James. It is still here!

So in other words, I need to cast off the compulsory chains of the ugly dogmatic demon that has pierced the bloody ventricles of my heart, and tortured my soul with his ungodly sword of spiritual slavery, thus freeing myself from his insalubrious jealous laws. And then, with my newly freed spirit, I should soar on a broomstick with the Witches of Righteousness in search of the sexiest wench I can unearth from the sea of fleshly humanity. Then I should proceed with solitary conviction to devour her sweetness with the moist passionate osculations of my pure unadulterated lips as they salivate with the salvation of our deeply meaningful fervor of love.

Sounds like a plan to me! Thanks!

I don't get it? (state of confusion) but I did like the words, but then I read erotica too.

Please don't let Rabbit put music to that one Abra!

Well, and abra, lets take it backwards so to speak. If you have a couple who takes the vows in the church and from onset of marriage, cheats on each other and breaks most of their vows. In this case, marriage was a peice of paper that meant nothing. For this couple in gods eyes meant nothing. So a couple that for all purposes and intents commits to eachother, loving and being loved as if they are one, without the paper is still honoring and valuing each other in love and respect. The paper will not change their love for better or worse.

Worrying about the morality of the bible should only be for those willing to worry about the morality of the bible.

I totally agree with you there!

I never meant to imply that I was 'worrying' about it.

I simply said that I was sick of hearing about it.

I am against the idea of marriage as it is today, a contract with THE STATE.

I am for intimate honest divine Love between couples who know each other, and who do not attempt to own each other or rule each other or even restrict each other. I am for the perfect and equal relationship.

I once had a vivid and lucid dream of a life where my mate was a tall looking greek god looking blond male. I was a fabulous dark haired beauty. In this dream we lived in a roman-like structure with perfect weather outside, and little ponds flowing all around and even through the house.

There was a long marble table filled with fresh and exotic fruits, and there were large feather stuffed pillow all around the room. People scantily clad in togas laid on the pillows.

My mate loved me passionately and forever and guess what he brought me for my birthday celebration?

In addition to the food and fun, he introduced me to a tall dark haired lover who made wonderful love to me on the pillows. There was no jealousy. This was not a lustful orgy, but a love festival. It was the best vacation I ever had.

I woke up to a life wrought with problems. I thanked my higher self for that vacation. It was a very real experience.

I imagine a world like that exists somewhere.

Jeannie

In my town, when I first advertised to do tarot card readings for free I was the talk of the town apparently.

A fundamentalist Christian lady came to me sweetly asked me why I had chosen this evil path. She was trying to save my soul. I regret that in the end I was very harsh with her.

The next thing they tried was to send in an undercover person who must have been wearing a wire. She was there for a reading and she tried to get me to commit some sort of fraud on tape. They believed my free reading was a trap to snare them into more readings where I would demand money. It didn't work.

The cards revealed the entire plot. I was new at Tarot card reading and I did not understand how the reading could be telling me such a thing. Later I put it all together.

Outside, a white van with no windows waited for her to take her home. When I offered to walk her to her car, she got very nervous. (She was a sweet little old lady... or was supposed to give that impression.)

Because of this experience, I have always felt like the town witch on the verge of being burned at the stake. I don't believe everyone in town feels that way, but it was hard not to.

Because of my Tarot Card reading, and because I had a few articles about it on my home town web site, two local churches asked that I remove them from the Church listing directory. They preferred not to be "associated" with me by being listed on my website. I only listed the churches as a favor to them and to visitors moving here.

So I removed ALL the churches from my website.

All I wanted to do was a few tarot card readings and they all were gripped with fear that the devil had moved into town.

And that is why it irks me when Christians pretend that they are persecuted and attacked.

Still they put their nativity scene on the courthouse lawn. Which I don't think should be there. But I don't bother them about it like they bothered me about my tarot card reading. They actually came into my house with a person wearing a wire.

Jeannie

I don't understand why so many people concentrate their religious beliefs on negative things.

It's simple. Don't hurt anyone if you can help it. Do the best you can. Love one another.

The world is very beautiful and there is a lot to see and do. Every day the sun comes up. Beautiful. Every day the sun goes down. Glorious.

Bad things do happen and that is hard to take. Accidents, illness, injury, hardship, loss, even hurt feelings... all can be difficult to handle and cause us to forget what is really important. I am no exception. But I think god created the universe in a certain way, so that things tend to balance out and disorder and disturbances serve purposes that are not always immediately apparent...

Peace and joy.

Oh and my beliefs do not prohibit physical affection as long as it is not harmful or unwelcome.

I love my religion. It loves me too!



The Nine Satanic Statements from The Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!



The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth by Anton Szandor LaVey

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

You know abra, I said this on the other thread and I will apply it here also. You can take some people and place them in a box of complete structure and doctrines and guidlines and they will thrive and never question the source or purpose behind those restrictions, they will defend those restrictions to death. There are some people who would wither and die in this environment, they have to be free to make their own rules and live freely. By living freely I am not referring to sexual orgies and debauchery either I am referring to living by their own rules within their own morality. Both of these cases are correct and functional for each person. I am a free spirit and must dance to my own drum and I know this of myself. I will wither and die under the strict shackles of living under most modern religions. I do not feel guilty for this nor should I and I know that I live a moral and ethical life so I know that I am a good person I do not need a congregation to confirm it for me. You may be one of the free spirits and need to accept it in yourself and go with it. You will be happier if it is the road for you.

There isn't a problem with orgies or debauchery if all are willing. If they are: Have at it with mirth!

I know what the Bible says....but I also don't believe that a lesbian or gay person should not have love, nor do I believe in waiting until marriage to have sex...

I find this a little confusing.

When you say that you don’t believe these things, do you mean that you don’t believe that the Bible actually says them?

ANSWER: Oh no the bible says it clearly....it just something I personally struggle with.


Or do you mean that the Bible does say them but you don’t believe the Bible correctly reflects the will of God? (i.e. either contains errors or has somehow been lost or distorted in translations, etc.?)

Or do you mean that you believe the Bible says them, and you believe that they are the will of God, but for some strange reason you don’t believe God is justified in demanding these things?

And no lost in translation there my friend....It is what it is and it is clearly stated....just for me personally I struggle with it. For my own personal reasons. And God is totally justified in his demands....this is my struggle not his.


I’m just trying to understand exactly what it is that you don’t believe.

I can’t believe that God would expect these things either. And this is why I either must believe that the Bible is seriously flawed, or simply not God’s word to begin with.

ANSWER: I know that it something I have to deal with.....and due to the Bible Not Being Flawed, is what makes it my struggle....not God's....Because he made it clear from the get go...man shall not sleep with man and woman shall not sleep with woman.


I can’t very well believe that it’s the word of God and not believe that God would be like that at the same time.

It is precisely this kind of contradiction that causes me to reject the Bible. If I can’t believe that God would be like the Bible says, then why should I bother believing in the Bible at all?

And so I don’t.

ANSWER: And in that is the truth Abra.....But just because I struggle with it....I know that God is right....And to many times humanity wants to do it their way...and will justify any way they can to make it work for them. yanno