There was nothing in anything Einstein said that restricts love from anyone.



That's my interpretation as well.

I think Jeannie summed it all up perfectly.



That's what Einstein was thinking. He was a loving man and was thinking in terms of pure love. Any negativity put onto his words would need to come from the person who is doing the negative interpretation.

The original Universal Life Church Doctrine, (of which I am an ordained minister) states that it believes in two directives:

1. Do what is right
2. You are the one who decides what is right.

Rev Jeannie (Gloria Jean)

High priestess of the First Universal Life Church of Brutal Truth and Honesty.

The above is the name (unregistered, unincorporated) of my church. There are two members. Me and the monseigneur. (He is some guy I met on myspace.)

To become a member, one only needs to say they want to be a member. They should be dedicated to being honest with themselves and then with others. That is the basic quality we strive for.

If a stranger were to walk up and spit on you, would you have any social ties to him? Would you feel sympathy for him? If those two criteria ruled your use of "ethical behavior", how would you respond to being spit upon?

It's a common misconception that Christians are good out of fear of hell or because they are persuing reward. This stance is not supported in the scriptures. The scriptures are clear, those who are saved cannot fall away from the church. There are "crowns" (glory) which can be won, but they come from selfless service to God and humanity. Anyone who saught to win those "crowns" for him/herself would never be rewarded.

Jesus taught that people should live loving, ethical lives. Not for fear of punishment, those who are saved have nothing to fear from hell. Not for reward, there is no reward that can be won by persuing it. Salvation is already in hand. Christians are told to love everyone, because it pleases God and it's the right thing to do.

I have seen and known people who lived a life outside of Christianity and then on their dying bed accepted Jesus Christ as their savior at the last possible minute "just in case" there was any truth to the threat of Hell.

I have seen and know people who are Christians who don't really believe any of that, but are Christians "just in case" there is any truth to the threat of Hell.

I have seen and known people who are (claim to be) Christians who just like the group think and the group support and the friendship, but they don't really truly believe.

Most Christians I know, (and that is most of the people I know) do not practice what they preach and are afraid to say what they really think and believe for fear of looking like a doubter of their chosen faith, or for fear of being an outsider.

I have known some Christians who truly believe with all their heart and soul in the doctrine and who do practice what they preach, but they do it with the attitude that they are right and righteous and everyone else will be going to hell that does not follow their faith as they do.

There are all kinds of Christians. They are each different and they do not all think or believe the same. They are simply people who don't know, who are seeking the answers to many questions, who have been brought up with a certain society that practices a certain faith.

They are my friends, my relatives, my neighbors. I hold no ill will against them. But I do not follow their thinking. I do not accept their guilt trips. I do understand them, because I have been there.

Jeannie

If that’s true then the scriptures are clearly false. There are plenty of examples of people who have been ‘saved’ by Christianity and then who later rejected the religion. I happen to be one so I’m a living example of the falsity of the scriptures.

You’ll probably argue then that I wasn’t really ‘saved’, but that’s not possible. I did everything that the Biblical scriptures required that I do to qualify for having been ‘saved’.

So either way the scriptures would need to be false. Either they lied about what was required to be saved, or they lied about not being able to fall away from the church after having been saved. The bottom line is that you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

It’s these kinds of logical impossibilities that the biblical picture of a god is riddled with. It flies in its own face time and time again.

Jesus promises to reveal himself to those who are saved. Did Jesus reveal himself to you? If not, then you weren't a saved Christian. If so, then you are denying the existance of Jesus as God, with full knowledge that he exists. Either you weren't a saved Christian or you are lying when you say that Jesus isn't God.

The power of the mind is a magical thing. If you really believe it then you can see it. If you believe that Jesus revealed himself to you then you could actually see that, either in a dream or even in a waking state. It is called hypnotism.

Science has also discovered and proven that an animal or person cannot see a physical object if he is not conditioned to see it or if he does not believe it exists.

This is because we live in a holographic light universe. Everything is reflection, everything is light.

If someone tells me that they actually saw and even spoke to Jesus, I believe them. They probably did see a figure that appeared as Jesus. But they manifested this personal experience themselves with their own mind and with their strong belief. which to every one else would be called an illusion.

These things can all be proven and demonstrated and have been documented.

On a different level of thought, there is the theory that we create our experiences with our thoughts and we attract things that we focus on and think about.

Jeannie

To add to that, seeing is not always proof that something exists or that it is what you think it is.

Any spiritual being on the astral plane can appear as someone who represents Jesus or any other vision of God a person might have. It is a world full of illusion and tricks.

In fact Christians are even warned that Satan can appear as God and pass himself off as God. So you think you are smarter than him. You think that your God is not Satan. How do you know? You don't.

The very God Christians worship, the jealous, vengeful, fearful God of the Old testament, and the kind loving God you call Jesus, could very well be the Yin and Yang, the Good and evil faces of Satan himself.

You are not smart enough to know if this is true or not. If you think you are, then you think you are smarter than both Satan and God.

Jeannie

If that’s true then the scriptures lied when they said that a person would be saved if they give themselves over to Jesus.

So either way it’s a lie.

If someone accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior and he rejects their acceptance of him, then he’s the one who reneged on his promise. They did all they could do.

Moreover, if your mythical God already rejected me then there isn’t much I can do about it is there.

So I guess I’m going to hell then.

Hey, at least I tried. What can I say.

So clearly there are people your God will not accept. Salvation is not open to everyone then.

Doesn’t that also fly in the face of what the scriptures say?

There’s no sense in continuing to seek salvation from a God that has already rejected me.

According to you then, your God rejected my acceptance of him.

There’s nothing I can do now but sit around and wait to be damned.

This is absolutely true, and I wouldn't question someone's delusions either.

However, I also know a lot of preachers who have given their entire lives over to preaching the Gospel. They have certainly done everything the Bible ever requested of them to be ‘saved’, yet even they don’t claim to have actually seen any deities. They still confess to be living on faith, and sometimes even admit to having to struggle with their faith on occasion.

So the idea that Jesus has 'revealed' himself to them is a bit of a stretch.

To give a personal example of this, I once was a member of Eckankar, the ancient science of soul travel. It is a path to God that claims to be the only one. It used to claim to be the fastest one, but it has changed. It has become quite a cult.

During my stint with this organization, I did see the living Eck Master come to me and initiate me in the dream state and had several other quite remarkable inner experiences. It was enough to convince me I was on the right path. For a while.

It was when I felt the crunch of too many rules and restrictions that I backed away from that group. Once you hook up with a guru and his group, it is sometimes difficult to break away and they will warn you of this. But I had no problem other than I had just changed my core belief system. I felt quite alone.

But I felt totally liberated. Better than when I got a divorce. LOL.

Turns out that the living Eck Master claims to be the Representative of God on this earth and the entire galaxy. He put himself in the position of the living manifestation of God on this earth. A tall order. He did not live up to that.

I discovered that all line of past masters that Eckankar claimed to have come from were made up. They did not exist nor did they ever. Even so, initiates studying this path would see and talk to these mythical masters in their visions on a regular basis.

They believed in them or else some entity was appearing to them in the form of these myths. It could even be their higher self appearing to them. It does not matter. The experience was real to them.

So why the deception? I could write a book about the reasons for that. Its a long story. Deception is part of the way this reality manifests itself and it is the way God convinces us that we are individuals and not just an atom in Its universal body.

That's my perception for now until new information arises.

Jeannie

for Abra and PreciousLife

http://www.jewfaq.org/brother.htm

If he is a stranger then my only social tie to him would be my perception of the social contract- that we always treat one another with courtesy. By spitting on me he breaks the social contract. Would I feel sympathy? I cannot tell from what we have thus far established. Education was a component for ethical behavior as well. So in this case I might have sympathy for him as I have been educated to the plight of the mentally ill and might perceive him to be mentally ill.

My response to being spat upon would partly depend on my perception of the individuals motivation for doing so. I do not enjoy being touched by strangers much less being exposed to their bodily fluids so I would feel disgust. My primary thought would to determine if he was a further threat to me or others. If I felt that he was, I would try to contact an authority. In any case I would try to calm the individual and do what I could for them. But I would defend myself it I needed to.

It's an interesting question because I had something similar happen recently. At a stop light a woman ran up to my car and began to beat her fists on the car and scream and weep and curse and spit at me. It was not comfortable but it was not as bad as your example because I was still protected to an extent in my car. I did end up pulling over to the adjacent convenience store and talking to her while we waited for the police to come. It turned out she was somewhat mentally unstable and she was taking some drugs that confused and aggravated her plus she had a lot of financial issues. Unfortunately, I was naive and thought that perhaps a social worker would be able to help her, etc. But the police ended up taking her and "baker acting" her. I believe this is a 24-72 hour hold to check for mental illness, determine whether she is a threat to others or herself, etc. I do not know what happened to her after that- I'm not really sure what else I could have done.

Shouldn't someone who has studied the Bible as much as you know that scripture? It's one of the scriptures that makes Christianity unique among all the worlds religions. No other organized religion promises to be verified as true (in life) by whatever god or gods they worship.

There are many christians. It is a frequent problem that we tend to think that they are all the same. In the baptist churches I attended as a child the preachers made it very clear that fear or hell and desire for heaven was why people should follow the commandments. There was much concentration on sin and original sin and man being a sinner. And there was a lot of hellfire and brimstone.

I'm glad for you that you do not believe in this but many christians still do. As far as I can tell these beliefs are based more on the old testament. I agree that the new testament tends to emphasize not judging, loving one another, etc. Is that what is practiced? Sometimes. None of us are perfect- christian or none christian.

For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16.27

Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. -- Romans 2:6, 13

Who said anything about seeing Jesus? Jesus promised to reveal himself, which leads to the unwavering faith that so offends you and Abra.



Satan can appear as an angel of light, not as God. God cannot be looked upon by anyone other than Jesus.



The God of Abraham is loving and forgiving. Pay attention to the Old Testament, because it is a testament to God's forgiveness and mercy to humanity. How anyone can read the Old Testament as a whole and find God anything like Satan is beyond me. Every verse, when taken in context displays the attributes of God. Just. Merciful. Loving.



I'm smart enough to know Christian doctrine. There is a reason why the Bible is called "the Sword of the spirit". A Christian can cut through the lies of Satan using the truth found within the Bible. Satan knows the Bible, but he twists the truth. A Christian who has armed him/herself will be able to cut through the lies to see Satan or his servants for what they are.

The Old Testament if fully and completely about forgivness. Jesus taught as he would to a child in his lifetime. The Old Testament is as though teaching to an adult. Read some Jewish studies of the Old Testament some time, it will amaze you. The Jews have a far greater understanding of the Old Testament, because many Christians take the superficial stance on what happens. I have seen Christians saw that God changed his attitude after Jesus lived. That's simply not true. God gave civilizations hundreds of years to repent. He sent prophets to them, calling for them to change their ways.

The story of Jonah shows so much about human nature and God's forgiveness. Jonah told the people of Ninevah to repent or they would be destroyed. The Ninevah repented, so God had mercy on them. This offended Jonah greatly. His fear all along was that the people of Ninevah would kill him and later repent and God would have mercy on them. Jonah considered God to be too forgiving. Jonah sat down by himself and sulked in the sun. After the first day, a big vine grew out of the ground and shaded Jonah. The following day, the vine died and Jonah lost his shade. God pointed out to Jonah that Jonah was more concerned about the vine which died than the chance that all of Ninevah could have been killed. God's concern was the loss of over a 100,000 people because they were evil.

Now many would point out that God has killed children. Which is better: A child dies innocent or the child grows into a man who does evil his whole life and dies without repentance? God destroyed societies, wherein God could find no good. Remember the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. God said that if there were 10 good men within Sodom, the city wouldn't be destroyed. There was only one good man, Lot. Even his wife and daughters had been tempted by the sinful nature of the city they lived in. Rahab was the only good person in Jericho. God saved not only her, but her whole family. Rahab was the only good one, but God saved the whole family because he valued her so much.

The Old Testament is a testament to God's forgiveness and mercy. I could go on for pages showing you how God forgave in situations where most people would be calling for the death of the guilty.