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| Topic: Did God create evil? | |
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God created evil because he created man...yes, and even the devil, which I believe was a fallen angel or such. So the answer is yes. And he can also stop evil and you can too. However it is man who does the evil. Wouldn't it make sense to say "Man" created evil? okay, if you want |
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The same logic applies to any given concept concerning opposites... in other words...all things... Fill in the blank of evil and divinity again should you choose to do such a thing. The point is no less valid, whether or not you claim that a divine being could be evil. I have no idea what your point is. If you are still trying to say that you have to know what evil is to understand the divine, then you are completely wrong. If I couldn't see any colors, just black and white, I could still recognize an apple. Color doesn't identify a fruit as an apple, it simply describes the apple. In the same way, good or evil doesn't identify the divine, it describes the actions of the divine. |
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My point answered your question, which became convoluted...
WHEN IS EVIL NECESSARY? When it is required to distinguish from that which is not evil... always... Peace....  |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Fri 02/08/08 12:29 PM
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My objection - like yours - is not whether or not people accept or reject the Christian God, but with the misrepresentation of what they believe He is, or what they think I believe based on their perception of Him. For me the bottom line of “Christianity” is that Jesus died to “pay” for our sins. That’s the bottom line I refuse to accept on so many levels. Even if it were true I would reject the offer! But I seriously don’t believe it to be true in the first place. But surely you can see that Christianity is obsessed with sin and salvation. That’s it’s bottom line. It all surrounds the idea of sin and salvation. Therefore the very idea of sin (i.e. evil) is of paramount importance. I don’t believe that God is obsessed with sin and salvation. Period Amen. So it doesn’t really matter to me how you view it or what your personal explanations are. If they differ so drastically that you don’t see the focal point of sin and salvation then I seriously question your use of the term “Christianity” and being a “Christian”. If you’re simply using the term “Christian” to me to follow the lifestyle that Jesus taught then I would say that you are using the term wrong. Many pantheists agree with what Jesus taught in that regard. Jesus actually taught the same things as Buddha when it comes to moral values and how we should live life. I could be considered a “Christian” with respect to living how Jesus taught. But I don’t believe that he died for my sins. I believe that his death was a tragic ending that he had never planned. I absolutely do not believe that God sent Jesus to be butchered to “pay” for the sins of man. To me, that’s an absolutely absurd notion that isn’t even Godly or divine at all. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 02/08/08 12:38 PM
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You work yourself up trying to make logic out of this illogical concept of religion, bible and god. There is no logic in it. It is a mind concept that takes a great leap of faith to believe. If you choose to take that leap of faith then you are accepting the concepts at a spiritual level but to make logic out of it cannot be done without a distorted sense of logic. This is where you struggle. Two BILLION living people say it makes sense. If it doesn't to you, that's your look out, not mine. The number of people who believe in a fairy tale does not make the fairy tale true. All you have is two Billion people who believe in the fairy tale. All reality and all belief is based on perception and our own manifestation of it. None of it is "the truth." (Not even mine.)  But we can argue until the cows come home about it. You can say this: "My truth must be the real truth because I have two Billions people who agree with me." My question is this: Who counted these people and is it two billion exactly? That to me is amazing. But it proves nothing. Jeannie |
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If there were no concept of hard and soft ... it would just 'be' ... How would I 'enjoy' something that always was without the possibility of anything else? I am sorry, and I know I shouldn't, but I CANNOT be the only one to find this funny. Sorry ArtGurl 
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What difference is all this going to make? It looks to me like alot of people just like to argue.Let see it is light outside but is it really dark? huuummmmmmmm Miles That's what it is Miles. People just like to argue. Is there anything wrong with that? Is arguing evil?  That's an interesting question. Ultimately the real arguments on the religion forms almost always boil down to two sides,… One side consists of those who believe that only one specific picture of God can be true and that picture is carved in stone and written up in a book and no other view is worth considering. And they only way to be accepted by God is to accept Jesus Christ as your only Lord and Savior and join the choir and sing, “Jesus Love me This I Know, for the Bible Tells me So” The other side consists of those who believe that God doesn’t care what you believe. God is omniscient and gives his power to all directly without any need to believe in any particular historical dogmas. They believe that God creates the universe through our thoughts and that every thought is a prayer whether it is intended to be or not. They live what Jesus taught rather that trying to teach how Jesus might have lived. They don’t believe in joining choirs for the most part, but when they do they sing, “This Little Light of Mine, I’m Gonna Let it Shine!” The reason there are so many arguments is because the first group of people refuse to recognize the second group of people as having a legitimate relationship with God. They consider the second group of people to be rejecting God and living in compete rebellion. That’s where the PROBLEM LIES! The first group of people are so busying trying get people to accept the biblical story that they have become bigoted, blind, judgmental and totally removed from anything that can be considered godly or spiritual. Clearly I’m with the second group here. I don’t think the first group of people are going to hell, but I do think they make life a living hell for all the other people simply because they refuse to stop judging them as being rebellious to God.  And what you have just read is the God’s honest TRUTH! Nothing to argue about there. 
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 02/08/08 12:54 PM
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"Perception is reality" is not a fact - it's a cliche. It's another way of saying that Reality is subjective. What you are essentially saying is that reality to a person is based on only their level of experience, and understanding. This does not negate the absolute of reality - that outside of perception lies the truth. Reality IS subjective. But realities collide like galaxies collide. Like attracts like. Reality Reality who has the one true reality? I can only answer that honestly from my point of view. I do. |
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Thanks Abra thats a pretty good objective view I would say. Now did the chicken come 1st or the egg? I think they were created equal.. Blessings..Miles The egg. Now are we off the subject again, or are you saying that evil existed before God? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 02/08/08 01:03 PM
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Thanks Abra thats a pretty good objective view I would say. Now did the chicken come 1st or the egg? I think they were created equal.. Blessings..Miles The egg. Now are we off the subject again, or are you saying that evil existed before God? Off the subject? Oh my. mmmm. Did God create evil.... mmm first I would have to understand exactly what you mean by the word "evil" Is evil a thing that you can see and touch? Does it have form? Or is evil just a word that describes Christianity's opinion of certain acts? If evil is an adjective that describes certain unpopular acts, (like not believing in the Christian doctrine or adultery) then evil is just a word and mankind created words. Not god. Mankind created opinions, not god. If evil is a thing that can be touched, seen, felt, etc. If it has form, then what does it look like, where does it live and can we go there and destroy it? If so, why are you not looking for this monster? On this thread, in between posts, there is a link that says "Date Married Women" is that put there by an evil person? Is that not promoting adultery? If it is, then is this website promoting evil? Just wondering. Jeanniebean |
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Edited by
Spidercmb
on
Fri 02/08/08 01:07 PM
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The number of people who believe in a fairy tale does not make the fairy tale true. All you have is two Billion people who believe in the fairy tale. Absolutely. But I wasn't suggesting that Christianity is true because 2 billion people believe it, I was arguing that it makes sense to 2 billion people. She had said my arguments didn't make sense and I was pointing out that they do make sense to a huge number of people All reality and all belief is based on perception and our own manifestation of it. None of it is "the truth." (Not even mine.) How do you know that no particular belief is the truth? There is a verifiable absolute reality, so who is to say that there is no absolute truth? But we can argue until the cows come home about it. You can say this: "My truth must be the real truth because I have two Billions people who agree with me." My question is this: But I didn't say that, so it's a strawman fallacy. Surely unintentional, but a strawman none-the-less. Who counted these people and is it two billion exactly? That to me is amazing. I don't know, it's a commonly given statistic that 2.1 billion people are Christian. But it proves nothing. But it does prove something. That Christianity makes sense to a whole lot of people, which was my point. |
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Edited by
GuideHenri
on
Fri 02/08/08 01:27 PM
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On this thread, in between posts, there is a link that says "Date Married Women" is that put there by an evil person? Is that not promoting adultery? If it is, then is this website promoting evil? Just wondering. Jeanniebean 1). Maybe, (Don't know him/her) 2). Yes. 3). No. |
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quote from spider: But it does prove something. That Christianity makes sense to a whole lot of people, which was my point. Granted there are two billion people who claim to be Christian. But that does not mean that Christianity "makes sense to them." Most of them are members because it is a social club. It gives them a feeling of belonging. Most Christians I know are still very confused, afraid of death, hell etc. They believe because they have been programed to believe or they only pretend to believe so that they can belong to the community. |
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quote from spider: But it does prove something. That Christianity makes sense to a whole lot of people, which was my point. Granted there are two billion people who claim to be Christian. But that does not mean that Christianity "makes sense to them." Most of them are members because it is a social club. It gives them a feeling of belonging. Most Christians I know are still very confused, afraid of death, hell etc. They believe because they have been programed to believe or they only pretend to believe so that they can belong to the community. How do you know what most Christians think and feel? Unless you have personally talked to 1,000,000,001 Christians, you got some splainin' to do. Admittedly, I am assuming that Christianity makes sense to most Christians. But you are assuming that most Christians are weak and scared and only Christian because it's a social club. I'm inclined to believe that I'm closer to the truth with my assumption than you are. |
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I think people make the choice of good or evil-- to follow God's principles, or not.
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this thread is evil
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I really shouldn't, but... ROFL
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The number of people who believe in a fairy tale does not make the fairy tale true. All you have is two Billion people who believe in the fairy tale. Absolutely. But I wasn't suggesting that Christianity is true because 2 billion people believe it, I was arguing that it makes sense to 2 billion people. She had said my arguments didn't make sense and I was pointing out that they do make sense to a huge number of people All reality and all belief is based on perception and our own manifestation of it. None of it is "the truth." (Not even mine.) How do you know that no particular belief is the truth? There is a verifiable absolute reality, so who is to say that there is no absolute truth? But we can argue until the cows come home about it. You can say this: "My truth must be the real truth because I have two Billions people who agree with me." My question is this: But I didn't say that, so it's a strawman fallacy. Surely unintentional, but a strawman none-the-less. Who counted these people and is it two billion exactly? That to me is amazing. I don't know, it's a commonly given statistic that 2.1 billion people are Christian. But it proves nothing. But it does prove something. That Christianity makes sense to a whole lot of people, which was my point. And here we go with perspectives again. Christians ALL have their own interpretation of everything they have been taught. I can vouch for this after talking to all of them that I know. It is some Christians point of view that the bible is a man made guide but not a literal scientific interpretation. On the other end of this spectrum of christians are those that take the bible so literally they are on the verge of insanity because of the illogicalness of it. Christians vary as much as humans vary. Perspectives vary in everyone. Does any of this make them wrong? NO. They believe how they chose to believe. Do you really think if their was a larger than us omnipotent god that he/it would sweat the small stuff? I doubt it. And then the greatest question of all, if their was this being, why would we be so important to it? We are just another living thing on this planet after all. We assume ourselves important but we are just living beings. Why would we be more important to this giver of life then say the tomato plant, cow, bear, etc....? Do we assume too much because of our brain? As for the original post god created evil because he had to have a way to sort out the worthy ones versus the unworthy ones. There is no other explanation of evil. Every divinity/god has to have a point of saying what is good to it and what is not good to it. So therefore divinity/god in and of itself creates evil and names it. |
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There are lots of great thoughts being bandied around here and I have not read every one, but it seems to me that the first question one must answer is "who is God?".
I am assuming that we are talking about God as revealed in the hebrew/christian bible. If we are not talking about that God, then there is no way to have a meaningful discussion. For example two individuals who are trying to agree about what someone looks like, will never agree if one is talking about John and the other about Susie. The "god" of Buddism is not ever going to look like the god of islam, who is never going to look like the God of "The Bible". That being said, I see people here talking about the yin and the yang, the ebb and flow, and relating it to God. They are by definition talking about someone other than the Creator God as revealed in the Bible. As is anyone who describes God in any way other than what is revealed in the Bible. This is not surprising, because we are told in the Bible that there are many "gods". That is, ones who claim to be worthy of worship and adoration. Satan did this, and many humans have imitated him (i.e. all the god-kings, pharaohs, Caesar, etc.). So within the context of the Christian Bible, anyone who is NOT the creator and is claiming the right to be worshiped and lifted above all others, or claiming any other prerogative that belongs to Him, is practicing evil. In addition anyone who is doing things that God would not do, or worshiping something/someone other than Him, is practicing evil. So as other have stated here, a rock cannot be evil, but a thinking being can be. And if you take the Bible as truth, God created all thinking beings at which point they (or at least some of them) have the option to be anti-God (evil). This is a topic that one can go a long ways with... but we have to be discussing the same God in order to make any sense. |
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There are lots of great thoughts being bandied around here and I have not read every one, but it seems to me that the first question one must answer is "who is God?". I am assuming that we are talking about God as revealed in the hebrew/christian bible. If we are not talking about that God, then there is no way to have a meaningful discussion. For example two individuals who are trying to agree about what someone looks like, will never agree if one is talking about John and the other about Susie. The "god" of Buddism is not ever going to look like the god of islam, who is never going to look like the God of "The Bible". That being said, I see people here talking about the yin and the yang, the ebb and flow, and relating it to God. They are by definition talking about someone other than the Creator God as revealed in the Bible. As is anyone who describes God in any way other than what is revealed in the Bible. This is not surprising, because we are told in the Bible that there are many "gods". That is, ones who claim to be worthy of worship and adoration. Satan did this, and many humans have imitated him (i.e. all the god-kings, pharaohs, Caesar, etc.). So within the context of the Christian Bible, anyone who is NOT the creator and is claiming the right to be worshiped and lifted above all others, or claiming any other prerogative that belongs to Him, is practicing evil. In addition anyone who is doing things that God would not do, or worshiping something/someone other than Him, is practicing evil. So as other have stated here, a rock cannot be evil, but a thinking being can be. And if you take the Bible as truth, God created all thinking beings at which point they (or at least some of them) have the option to be anti-God (evil). This is a topic that one can go a long ways with... but we have to be discussing the same God in order to make any sense. So, you are saying exactly what I posted earlier ie As for the original post god created evil because he had to have a way to sort out the worthy ones versus the unworthy ones. There is no other explanation of evil. Every divinity/god has to have a point of saying what is good to it and what is not good to it. So therefore divinity/god in and of itself creates evil and names it. |
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