By the way, Spider, last night I should have said,….



That was the context of that statement!

And now you are trying to throw your definition back in my face!!!

That is really underhanded Spider!!!

Abracadabra,



That is a complete lie. I didn't make any accusations against you, you insulted me and accused me several times of being a pervert. You ended up agreeing with my point, that normal sex must include sexual desire (lust). Then you freaked out and started attacking me for no reason. I'm sure the mods wouldn't repost the deleted posts, so you will probably get away with your lies.



I don't care what you have based you life on, that's not anything I'm interested in. YOU are the one who can't keep yourself out of the conversation.

In Matthew, Jesus use the word "epithyme", which in the context means "sexual desire". ANY SEXUAL DESIRE. You can, through force of will, suppress all sexual desire. I have done it for weeks at a time. All this discussion and your insults and stupid and I mean fu*king moronic accusations against me are all because you want to argue that what Jesus said is up for debate. Sorry, it's not. Jesus said that sexual desire for someone to whom you are not married is a sin.

Let me make this clear. I don't care if you base your whole life on silly putty. I don't care if you base your whole life on rainbows and monkey farts. I don't care what you "base your life on" period. I was correcting you incredibly flawed interpretation of a scripture which doesn't need to be interpreted. The meaning is clear for anyone who wants to see it.

I quoted the pertenient text. I wasn't trying to mislead anyone. I am using the defintion that comes right out of the lexicon when you look up the verse we were talking about.

To call me "underhanded", when you have lied about me and called me a sexual pervert repeatedly shows your true character or lack thereof.

I didn’t accuse you of being a pervert. I accused you of perverting my motivation.



No, I didn’t agree with that, and if you thought I did you are mistaken. I was merely responding to your suggestion that this is what lust might mean.



That’s your interpretation. Not mine.

I told you that my motivation is LOVE.

That’s it.

Period.

That’s my proclamation Spider.

My motivation is LOVE.

You can’t claim to change my motivation, by any reference to any interpretations.

My motivation is LOVE.

Period.

I’m telling you this. I’m not asking for your personal opinion on whether or not you think I’m speaking the truth.

Anybody talking about throwing stones???????

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never falls. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; wherethere is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Quoted from the NIV study bible, new international version.

No, because your definition of lust is misplaced.

To lust someone is to want them purely for physical pleasure, yet have no love or genuine respect for them.

If you love someone then it’s impossible to lust them, because you already have genuine love and respect for them.

As I said before,… if we go by your definition then lust would always be present. You could never be freed from lust if you simply define lust as the enjoyment of something.

It would be a really sick God that expected people not to enjoy life ever.

To believe that lust is simply to enjoy something necessarily has to be a misinterpretation.

When speaking of sin, it necessarily has to boil down to motivation and intent.

If you are motivated by pure lust, then it is a sin. You have no love or respect for what you are lusting after, you have no intention of following through or being true. You’re acting on pure lust.

If you are motivated by love, then lust cannot exist, because lust requires that you don’t love. Love automatically negates lust. They can’t coexist. That would be an oxymoron.

If you want to lie, go ahead. I really don't care. Do you want to lie about anything else? Everyone who was in this thread last night knows you called me a pervert. They also know that your post calling me a pervert and my post asking you to apologize and your post refusing to apologize were deleted.



A defintion isn't an interpretation.



And I told you that I don't care what your motivation is. Do you think I sleep with your picture under my pillow? You aren't that important to me that I have ever wondered "What is Abra's motivation in romantic relationships?" IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU. I don't care about your personal life, it's none of my business. I think that my world would be a slightly better place if you would quit trying to tell me about your "motivations".



Got it the first time. Still don't care.



Still don't care...getting tired of hearing about it.



If I could change your motivations, I would motivate you to stop talking about your motivations.



My motivation is to stop reading your posts, because I'm not that "into" you.



I didn't ask to be regaled about how you are the only person to have never experianced sexual desire. Not interested. I've fished enough to know a fish story when I hear one.

Welcome back invisible, I was wondering where you got to.

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never falls. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; wherethere is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Quoted from the NIV study bible, new international version.


same old, same old

Strawman again.

The biblical defintion for "lust" is "sexual desire". Do you have to feel sexual desire to enjoy a nice hike in the woods? I've heard of "nature lovers", but I didn't realize it was literal for some people.

You know, Spider, you are my resounding gong, and my clanging cymbal.

You still don't know what LOVE means.

And I'm talking about LOVE, not love.

Invisible,

I am not perfect, I can't love like God loves. I do try, but I sometimes fall back to my human nature. Thank you for reminding me that I should always try to love like God does. Even if I fail I should keep trying. Thank you for the reminder, I hope you have been well.

I didn't call you a sexual pervert.

I said that you perverted my motivation.

And that you DID!!!!

And you are still attempting to pervert my motivations.

You are even attempting to try to use the words of Jesus to imply that my motivation could have only been driving my LUST?

That’s just plain SICK Spider.

I’m perfectly sure that Jesus would be quite please with my motivations because I know that I was driven by love, despite your refusal to accept that.

I can’t believe that you are judging my motivation, and attempting to use the words of Jesus to support you judgments of me.

I'm not perfect either, but I know the difference in feeling.

And thank you for asking, I'm fine.

John le Carre:

The opposite of Love is not Hatred, it's Apathy, and Apathy is our daily bread.

Abracadabra,

I am sorry for the sarcastic nature of my resent post to you. I allowed my anger at your mischaracterization of our exchange last night to overwhelm my good sense. You are not my enemy, my enemy doesn't have flesh or blood.

I didn't call you a sexual pervert.

I said that you perverted my motivation.

And that you DID!!!!

And you are still attempting to pervert my motivations.

You are even attempting to try to use the words of Jesus to imply that my motivation could have only been driving my LUST?

That’s just plain SICK Spider.
I’m perfectly sure that Jesus would be quite please with my motivations because I know that I was driven by love, despite your refusal to accept that.

I can’t believe that you are judging my motivation, and attempting to use the words of Jesus to support you judgments.


James, do not worry about judgment, because that is a Christian prerogative

I'm not questioning your motivations. I can't be any more clear, the question of your motivations has never crossed my mind. I don't waste my time thinking about other's private lives. Please stick to the subject we are discussing. These little detours do nothing for the discussion.

Invisible,

I invite you to read the posts between Abra and myself. You won't find any judgements of Abra. I haven't discussed Abra. I really hope you will do this, because otherwise you are simply going to be deceived. Abra takes every statement I make as a personal attack, although I continuously assure him that I don't care about his private life. Look at the posts and you will see that Abra is reacting irrationally.

I have no angry for you Spider. None at all.

What I don't understand is why you can't accept that anyone might actually have decent motivations.

You seem to be bent on proving that every single human being on the planet must necessarily be driven by sinful intent.

It's crazy!

There has to be something terribly wrong with your view of religion if they only way you can see it is a proclamation that all men must necessarily be driven by sinful intent.

My emotion toward you is more frustration than anger. I just don’t understand why you feel such a dire need to make out like everything is a sin and that no matter what people do they are ultimately being driven by sinful intent.

It’s seriously a depressing negative attitude.

I have never seen you posting anything about LOVE. All you ever seem to do is accuse people of being sinful and having untrue motivation. And you even resort to quoting scripture just to prove that they must necessarily be sinners!

It’s utterly crazy!

It’s like all your religion is interested in is making sure that everyone knows they are sinners unworthy of the glory of God.

I just can't see it.

I mean, what good is a religion that only serves to make people feel guilty and unworthy in everything they do? Why such dismal negativity???

Just remember, with one finger pointing at somebody, there are 4 fingers pointing at yourself.