i do not have all the answers Creative Soul

but i will agree with you that people's intentions

and messages get greatly misconstrued and it grieves me


i truly believe

that we need to find some serious common denominators

and quit acting like the forever Hatfields and the McCoys...

i will be the first to admit i am far from perfect...
and if i have offended anyone ..i am truly sorry...

dragoness:

The 'love of Jesus' moved you also...

I believe that peace within can be found through different means...

Christians call it the spirit of Christ, the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit, or whatever...

One will find what lies within(spirit) when one removes all that one is not. The thief teaching(s) of this world will rob one from themself.


Rapunzel:

I am not offended, per se...

I just do not agree with the measure used by ninja-man in that post... very assumptive...

I do not believe that it is a stretch to say that Christians believe in the crucifixion... that has been the only 'lumping' that I have done.

It is the focus of this thread... not individual doctrine.

I felt encumbrance from religion. Restriction and judgement. When I was young, I bought it but never felt moved by it. The day or few weeks when I chose to analyze why I never felt this "love" and realized that it was an encumbrance to my free spirit of love and light is when I truly felt moved. So I disagree to the label unless you are referring to the fact that Jesus love is actually the love and light of the free spirit and humans have adopted to label it as Jesus love. Then I may agree.

It is all of essence...

One can indeed receive peace(reward) without knowing 'Jesus'...

it is within...

for those who find it, it is always within...regardless of which vehicle used...

No labels... just a little humor...

Then I agree with you creative

I wrote:



Rapunzel replied:


My point in that conversation was to make clear that ‘sympathy’ in the form of prayer for the purpose to ask YOUR deity to ‘CONVERT’ was not necessary nor was it appreciated. Therefore I asked that if you MUST pray to YOUR deity concerning Another (including me) that you pray for our continued health and happiness, just the way we are, without your religion in our life.

I never specifically answered this question of yours



because I THOUGHT my response the first time was perfectly logical and acceptable. I’m sorry you did not find it clear. I hope this has corrected the situation.



Offence is taken the same way now as it was in the last thread that we had this conversation. Please read this again: I find it 'offensive' that so many Christians want to pray for the 'unrepentant' soul of another, (as in a Christian who voices their PITY because a person does not believe in a particular Christian viewpoint, and prays that they see the ERROR of their way, hense praying for conversion) (however, that same Christian is) offended themselves when another feels sorry (or pity those same Christians in the same way they pitied the non-believer) because (in his/her opinion,- referring to the OP) Christianity has been dupped!



So in all honesty, I have not changed a word. Communication is the problem. Either I did not make clear the messages I was attempting to get across or the messages were interpreted incorrectly.

Either way, I hope the message has been amended and that we are no worse for the misunderstanding.

okay...that's fair...

i can receive that...

so....


would you object if i prayed to my God

that total truth will reveal itself to all of us?

I love it when people say
"whhaaat?? Honda S2000? but thats a peice of **** jap car!"
and I ask them:
"have you ever driven the S2000?"

"...uh no, but *insert whatever here*"
and I ask them:
"Have you even SAT in one before?"

"...um no but *insert whatever here*"

Is it justifiable to give an opinion/judgment or the car if they've never driven it?
Or even SAT in it?
they have not experienced the car in any form!

Would you take a automotive review seriously if you found out that the reviewer never even TOUCHED the car during the entire review???
Yet he/she wrote about its how it handled, the interior design and exterior styling plus all the 'gadgets' and whatnot?

Of course not right? thats ludicrous!

Yet here we have people reviewing something they have never experienced.

very true

good analogy untamed

It's interesting because we all try to find a commonality between what we believe...But that is so hard when what ones has is so personal....And to bring it into words is almost impossible. When someone speaks of the holy spirit being within.....that is a very personal relationship with the person, their God, and for some with Jesus Christ. And when you believe with every fiber of your being that Christ did die for our sins......to give the gentiles a chance for salvation...which includes me, and for me this is huge.

Sometimes I wish that men didn't create churches or places of worship and just left it for the person to have relationships with God and Christ. But I also know the importance of fellowship and the bonds that are a church family. And as sad as it makes me all the bickering and fighting over church and religion it will continue long after I am gone. I also know that all through time man has searched for what fits him, for their life, and most important for what they believe spiritually. And as long as we have churches, different religions and different beliefs we will always be able to debate it........and throw blame for what others believe that we do not.

When I was at church today....and the Lord brought me to my knees....I asked him to show me how to deal with this situation.....He answered so strongly and said.....Let it go.....Give it to me......and know in your heart, that I will lead you never astray, that evil, I will open your eyes when it is needed, wisdom I will give you to know that it is present, and most important that the road I have set you on is still there and you must always persevere in My Mighty precious name.

So this will be the end of the road for me. I will only come to the threads that are a positive and never a negative. I will not more important have petty fights with others over something that will never change. I will continue to get e-mail of people searching and help them as best I can. I will do this gladly, and with a humble heart.

Untamed:

You wrote:



This post was very assumptive... this thread is my doing. If you believe that I have not 'test drove' your religion you are wrong, my friend... DEAD WRONG...

Here allow me to tell you what I have witnessed...

Most Christians that I have been fortunate enough to have had contact with are some of the most judgemental people I have been around.

Christianity gives hope to those who need it, which is great. A wonderful aspect of the religion. Bringing someone up who has lost hope...broken, as it were, my self included.

It teaches that sins are washed away... although your sins are like scarlet, they shall be white as snow... my yoke is easy my burden is light... it places responsibility for repercussion away from the person and onto the deity...

It never truly focuses on WHY one came to the position of losing all hope... it side-steps personal responsibility...

All of the sudden a virgin Christian begins telling all how wonderful the religion is. The 'only' way... the 'only' truth... and begins to believe that they have superior beliefs which are supported by 'God'...

God leads them... WHATEVER!!!!

So starts the looking down on those who do not follow the belief system... Good people have often become judgemental as a result of this so-called religion of 'Gods' word...


YOU JUST PROVED THAT WITH YOUR IGNORANCE OF MY EXPERIENCE...


Educate yourself a little will ya... BEFORE you claim to label me... you Christian you...

Just another great eg of "Christians" that give the rest a bad name.
A real Christian will know that judgment measure is judgment returned.
So actually, you have generalised all Christians as being judgmental..how judgemental .



Actually every human being needs hope; if you dont have hope you are in a state of depression. Thats all that depression is; the feeling that all is hopeless.
Been there done that, I was chronically depressed and suicidal from 15 to 19 years old.
AND I got through that depression WITHOUT support from others because I chose not to share my burden.


Since you claim to have experienced it already; you should already know that if one HAD actually lived "in the spirit" as outlined in Galations and Corinithians, it is utterly impossible to fall to position of losing all hope.
Yes I said impossible because if it DID, it would be a contradiction.
Is a Christian really a Christian if they have no faith?



have you experienced miracles creativesoul?
have you ever been in a situation where the only explanation can be "GODS HAND"?
I know many Christians that have been through such experiances.
I have also heard, read and seen people that claim "I was Christian"....and they justify their change in faith which is OBVIOUS to other Christians that this unfortunate person never even experienced Christianity in the 1st place!


You sound like Lloyd (sp?) Gerring- an ex- presbyterian theologian.
poor poor Gerring went through some really rough times so Im not surprised that he came to the same conclusions you have.

Yet again, the "looking down on those" attitude is unChristian.
It does not go with "love your neighbour as you love yourself"
I guess some non-believers will misinterpret some believers comment towards their beliefs as condescending, and Im sure that some believers dont think when expressing their views and hence cause that kind of reaction



Who said I was Christian?
I study cults and religion.
I know a lot about Christianity.
I know a lot about Catholicism.
I know a lot about Islam.
So therefore by your logic I am a Islamic-Catholic-Christian.

I have experienced SO much that it is simply IMPOSSIBLE for me to fall under the "used to be" label.
Thats how you KNOW when you are in the right "religion" / "belief system" because of the EXPERIENCE.

I read about people that convert from Christianity to Islam or to Judaism; I find that their reasoning for leaving the original faith is SO WARPED that Im not surprised that they left!!

Then again I too read about people that move the other way and speak of things only a person can speak about if they have experienced it.

creative soul...please calm down....
that anger will give you a coronary


even though you started the thread,

do you see anywhere
that untamed has made any mention of names....

i do not see anywhere that he has made any mention of names


he was speaking in such general terms ...
in my observation...you are reading
way more into it than was given

Creativesoul, you along with dragoness, and abracabra have treated me well, and I respect your views and insights. I know you do not beleive as I do, yet still I think thinnk the path we walk is not that different. Also I beleive you all have sound thinking and good insights. Why they can't I think of you as friends.

We all make choices of what path we would follow, should the path you choose upset me. Hopefully I would not want mine to upset you. God shows patience to all men, and allows each of us to make our choice. Yet what ever choice makes me no better than you nor, does it place me in judgment over you. The scriptures even teach that it is not a Christians place to judge the world but God's who judge's each man without partiality. Christian's rather ought to use discernment and watch over each other in order that we can live a life of love and good works.

I beleive in honor and respect toward others. I find this in turn helps me at work and on line. We ought to accept others, for who they are and to treat them with the kindness we can show them. In doing so you have been courteous to me and friendly. I appreciate this because I do not think you are here to battle others just as I am not here to fight and debate with others, but instead to gain insight, wisdom, and understanding. I believe God gives this to all men who seek after it.

I do not think that our faith has to cause conflict, it does not have to bring about condemnation. I still do and will share my perspective of truth as a Christian but hopefully it will be in a way that does not challenge but hopefully benefits others to insight of love and life. I also beleive that each of you have Life and wisdom within you.

Christ taught us to love our enemies, but I think really what we find in the end is really that we have few enemies and those who consider me their enemy are only influenced by the anger that is within them. I do not know why Christianity often creates conflict. It even does so within the faith even though the word of God says I beseech you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ for there to be no divisions among you. Even in a prayer that jesus prayed, He Asked that we would be one as He and the Father are one and that we then could be one in them, and that by this the world would know that the Father has sent the Son. It is sad that Chrisitians do not desire this as much as their Lord does.

Their are many things that Christians accept as Christianity, and thereby others beleive this is who Christ is, but really it is the Scriptures that show us truly who Christ is. If we read the sermon on the mount Matthew 5-7. We would see a better picture of Christ and a good way to live.

Paul wrote to let our speech always be as it were seasoned with grace so that it might benefit all who hear. In James, it says, Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom; and also,... But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy; and the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. Paul also wrote, The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged. And proverbs says, A GENTLE answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

I beleive that many as Christains do not have this understanding, and also that even those who are not Christians there is still wisdom from such words.

untamed:

This is quite funny..

you said:



Because you read not what I actually wrote...

I said

Then you make a broad-based claim that all humans need hope.

Nothing is impossible with your 'God'...remember?

One creates what one believes one believes what one creates...

If you have no vested interest then why are you arguing with me?

Christianity made Jesus the christ... not Jesus...

Do you have anything to say about the parable I spoke of earlier?...


Rapunzel:

You are assuming that this conversation is upsetting me... No worries... I know who I am...



Gotta run... time for work...

Peace... Live Learn Laugh Love

Do you really believe that your 'God' meddles in your human affairs? That your 'God' answers your prayers?

Why would a 'God' answer your prayers?

Because you accepted the notion of Jesus Christ?

Do you really believe that one is so much more special to 'God', because they are a 'Christian', and this 'God' would actually answer your prayers because of this?


That is insane...


Why do I believe this to be the case, you may ask?...


God does not answer your personal prayers...


While you are praying for something... anything... there are many others who are praying just as hard if not harder than you are, who are not getting their prayers answered, and their life is torture. Day in and day out... TORTURE...

What do you tell them of this all-loving 'God' you believe in?... What do you say to the ones who do not get their prayers answered????


Senseless 'evil'... needless 'evil'...


While you are praying, and believing that God is answering your prayers... think about this...


What would you say to the little 7 year old girl who is getting molested by someone over and over and over and over and over and over while you actually believe that 'God' is answering your prayers...



Wake up and open your eyes, look around...



No Christian is any more important than anyone else in this world...


There is no such thing as a loving 'God' who answers your prayers...


If there were such a thing as a loving 'God' who answered the prayers of people who deserved for them to be answered it would be that little girl...


Your Christian 'God' is no loving 'God'... is no 'God' at all...

we do not see the whole picture

with our very finite mortal minds