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| Topic: God's will...loving? | |
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creative, you are right, god in these religions does have ultimate control and if he allows sins it is taught that it is for a reason. You are right in your analysis. Others on here are also right, man does do evil. Not because of an effect from god as he is non-existant or a devil that is non-existant also, but from the mental illness and biological problems inside of them. So far we are batting 100 here right all the way around...lol   That does not make a bit of sense.I'm sure its not your fault friend.Somebody told you a bunch of lies about God at some point in your life. No lies it is what is taught. If you are in control then you get to go to heaven if you say you go to heaven then, right? Also what the hell is the devil for if you are in control of yourself all the time? Maybe you were taught differently than I was but it is not lies. You were taught wrong. I was not taught anything in a church because i dont go to church.I learned this stuff in college. The joy of religion is there is no wrong and right it is all based on faith. Teaching in college are not the same as everywhere else. I don't even believe in a god but my family sent me to church, I have a catholic and baptist background and god is ultimately in control, we answer to him, he determines our worthiness or unworthiness, he is performing miracles all the time, he influences our choices, fixes our problems, brings us strength, etc........ That is what they teach so maybe you heard it wrong...lol You are losing me here because you keep going off on some kind of tantrum. God can't tell me anything he doesn't exist so all teaching are from man, every teaching there is is from man. No god exists to tell me anything. A story book from days of old cannot tell me anything from god because it was written by man. So WTH are you talking about?????!!!!!!!!! NEVERMIND. It was nice to meet you.
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Change the subject?
 It is dead on topic brother... the God of the Bible does not exist. If it can be explained with words it is not the way... Now back to the subject... All knowing surely includes his/her own free will... How could one say that a being was so powerful, yet he/she had no choice? C'mon... that makes no sense... not in a biblical reference anyway... |
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Amen then.....lol
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Was that Garth Brooks who did the alter-ego thing?
The problem I have described has been an issue for Christianity ever since philosophy made sense... 
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No friend I'm not angry. I keep answering your questions.This conversation just keeps going around and around in the same circles over and over again. I apoligize to you if I come across as angry.It was nice to meet ya.
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there is no justification for such a terrible thing
but i find more pathetic denying God's nature because life has not being fair with u I'm sorry for whatever awful thing has happen to u, but God is not at guilt |
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Fri 01/04/08 08:12 PM
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Creative, maybe I have a better scenario.
When I used to watch TV, I watched documentaries, science and history programs. I have seen several different documentaries in which rapists were interviewed in prison. Almost none of them wanted to be released. In a couple cases repeat offenders did not even want to be released WITH chemical castration. One man actuaully began to mutilate himself, and all the while he was screaming and crying, "God help me, why did you make me like this, just let me die". It was the screaming that brought the guards that stopped him. So pathetic were his pleas they felt sorry for him. You see, he up for parole and he could not bear the thought of doing harm again, but knew he would. In several of the cases the rapists, as prisoners became Christians and were very devout. But none of them wanted to be realeased. One interviewer asked the obvious question. (sorry, it was several years ago, so I'm paraphrasing this one) If you are born again and believe you have will be saved, why do you fear that you will rape again. He was quiet for several moments and the tears began to flow. He said he still felt the urges. BUT HERE'S THE KICKER! He must truely have swallowed, hook, line and sinker, because he said "I don't think God wants me to be free yet. Maybe he has not healed me yet." How can so many, be praying so long and so hard to stop doing somehthing harmful to others, and get no reply? Where is God,then? The fact that almost all of those men were willing to give up their freedom and even their life, rather than hurt another, must in itself show how much they wanted to change. In one show, the guy (a repeat offender) said he tried to rape a young girl, but did it in such a way that he WOULD be stopped before he harmed her. The question why? His answer, I could not stop the urges and I did not want to harm anyone. He was one of those who was quite religious and a rarity in that he was liked by other inmates because of his 'ministering' to them. But God, surely did not do right by any of those seeking his help to change. Why? Do not state free will, for it was not their will to continue to harm others. So what other reason? I know there will be no responce, because the only possible responce would be the same old, same old "we can not know the mind of God" Like that has anything to do with it. Because the Bible clearly states "ask and ye shall receive". Now if God has THAT kind of power, then God, DOES HAVE CONTROL, and does intervene. So why some, and not others? Is God USING poeple for HIS will alone? If there is NOTHING what-so-ever restricting God, or requiring that he follow some 'logical' progression, than how can you know that the God you worship is actually the God you have defined? |
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Mirror:
I actually see progress towards the establishment that there is no such thing as an omni-benevolent, omniscient, all-powerful God... Good progress actually... The scriptures do have this description at different times throughout the bible... of course one can find plenty of places where it claims God hates also... so there ya go!!! It is a farce... God made you, tempted you without cause, punishes you if you do not follow the rules by throwing you into his personal fireplace... but he loves you... And he needs money...
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Fri 01/04/08 08:14 PM
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creative, back to subject, if there is an all seeing, all knowing, all encompassing being that is out there to intervene at will, why does he not intervene in a situation of a young girl being raped over and over and over? Where is he when needed by his beloved man? Why allow man to have to question his existance when he loves him so much?
They teach this is a test of your faith in him. They teach you are not handed more than you can handle. They teach god knows why, and we should just accept that. Etc......... I for one cannot buy this. It is not comprehensible to me. I also agree with you on the free will, how can he hand out free will while having his hands bound. |
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Mirror: I actually see progress towards the establishment that there is no such thing as an omni-benevolent, omniscient, all-powerful God... Good progress actually... The scriptures do have this description at different times throughout the bible... of course one can find plenty of places where it claims God hates also... so there ya go!!! It is a farce... God made you, tempted you without cause, punishes you if you do not follow the rules by throwing you into his personal fireplace... but he loves you... And he needs money... You are right
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Creative, maybe I have a better scenario. When I used to watch TV, I watched documentaries, science and history programs. I have seen several different documentaries in which rapists were interviewed in prison. Almost none of them wanted to be released. In a couple cases repeat offenders did not even want to be released WITH chemical castration. One man actuaully began to mutilate himself, and all the while he was screaming and crying, "God help me, why did you make me like this, just let me die". It was the screaming that brought the guards that stopped him. So pathetic were his pleas they felt sorry for him. You see, he up for parole and he could not bear the thought of doing harm again, but knew he would. In several of the cases the rapists, as prisoners became Christians and were very devout. But none of them wanted to be realeased. One interviewer asked the obvious question. (sorry, it was several years ago, so I'm paraphrasing this one) If you are born again and believe you have will be saved, why do you fear that you will rape again. He was quiet for several moments and the tears began to flow. He said he still felt the urges. BUT HERE'S THE KICKER! He must truely have swallowed, hook, line and sinker, because he said "I don't think God wants me to be free yet. Maybe he has not healed me yet." How can so many, be praying so long and so hard to stop doing somehthing harmful to others, and get no reply? Where is God,then? The fact that almost all of those men were willing to give up their freedom and even their life, rather than hurt another, must in itself show how much they wanted to change. In one show, the guy (a repeat offender) said he tried to rape a young girl, but did it in such a way that he WOULD be stopped before he harmed her. The question why? His answer, I could not stop the urges and I did not want to harm anyone. He was one of those who was quite religious and a rarity in that he was liked by other inmates because of his 'ministering' to them. But God, surely did not do right by any of those seeking his help to change. Why? Do not state free will, for it was not their will to continue to harm others. So what other reason? I know there will be no responce, because the only possible responce would be the same old, same old "we can not know the mind of God" Like that has anything to do with it. Because the Bible clearly states "ask and ye shall receive". Now if God has THAT kind of power, then God, DOES HAVE CONTROL, and does intervene. So why some, and not others? Is God USING poeple for HIS will alone? If there is NOTHING what-so-ever restricting God, or requiring that he follow some 'logical' progression, than how can you know that the God you worship is actually the God you have defined? I liked this example. I agree
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Creative and dragoness----No hard feelings guys.
I wasnt angry at ya. This was fascinating and it was nice to meet you guys. You both made some excellent points.I hope we can be friends. I gotta get out of here. This is way too serious for me. I feel like I answered your questions in an honest, objective fashion. I'm heading over to the jokes forum to lighten up. You guys are great.
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P.S.---Just look at me--an atheist defending God.
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Creative and dragoness----No hard feelings guys. I wasnt angry at ya. This was fascinating and it was nice to meet you guys. You both made some excellent points.I hope we can be friends. I gotta get out of here. This is way too serious for me. I feel like I answered your questions in an honest, objective fashion. I'm heading over to the jokes forum to lighten up. You guys are great. Probably misunderstanding, it happens. Noone was angry as far as I knew
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Redy:
You know, I had never seen it in that light. As always young lady you have shed a new light on the subject at hand... You would think if someone prayed and prayed that hard to be able to change something within them, then they would. Ah, of course the likely answer will be no 'faith' or some such sh**!!! It is an absurd notion... this omni-benevolent, omniscient, all-powerful personification of God... |
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Miguel...
I do not blame God for anything... It is good to see you, how are you doing? |
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Di:
I just re-read your post and soaked up a part that I had not seen for whatever reason earlier... Yes... one who does not step in... yet ask and ye shall receive... THAT is a major point...indeed... Just a little contradictory... just a little...
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