Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: God's will...loving?
Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Fri 01/04/08 07:26 PM
creative, you are right, god in these religions does have ultimate control and if he allows sins it is taught that it is for a reason. You are right in your analysis. Others on here are also right, man does do evil. Not because of an effect from god as he is non-existant or a devil that is non-existant also, but from the mental illness and biological problems inside of them. So far we are batting 100 here right all the way around...lol That does not make a bit of sense.I'm sure its not your fault friend.Somebody told you a bunch of lies about God at some point in your life. No lies it is what is taught. If you are in control then you get to go to heaven if you say you go to heaven then, right? Also what the hell is the devil for if you are in control of yourself all the time? Maybe you were taught differently than I was but it is not lies.

MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Fri 01/04/08 07:26 PM
I answered your question. What the heck are you talking about?? You are not a true atheist like me.You are just a person with a beef against Christianity. I dont know what any particular religion has to do with anything you are saying.Everytime you don't like the answer you get, you just change the subject.I'm speaking of the concept of God not any particular religion.If you don't like the answers dont ask the question.I'm answering your question honestly in an objective manner.You don't want answers.You are not an atheist like I am, just a person who has a weird beef with Christianity.How boring.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Fri 01/04/08 07:27 PM Edited by creativesoul on Fri 01/04/08 07:27 PM
Mirror said... Ok. Ill try one more time---God cannot do anything because humans do not want him to. Man used his free will to reject God. If God interferred directly in human events that would violate our free will.It says in most of the holy books that God keeps his promises,Man does not. God would be breaking his promise if he intervened. OK.Now I'm outta here >>>>>>> Mirror, how does that make any sense? I mean do you not believe that an all powerful God would not have the resourcefulness to intervene without 'exposing' his deed? Personally if he knew, and he knew that he could do something, yet he did not....please... break the promise... it would show far more love than not. Does this make any sense?<<<<<<<

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Fri 01/04/08 07:28 PM
Ah welcome NY!!! To all involved... The problem arises out of the 'all-controlling' and 'all powerful' aspect... which I believe is completely ridiculous if you also include 'always loving' in that equation. There is no substantive and logical argument which explains why he would allow things like this to happen. If he were all-powerful he could stop things like this by any number of means... after all nothing is impossible with God... right? You are right, he performs miracles and stuff all the time according to the beliefs but he couldn't perform one on this occasion, so god says she deserved it.

MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Fri 01/04/08 07:30 PM
creative, you are right, god in these religions does have ultimate control and if he allows sins it is taught that it is for a reason. You are right in your analysis. Others on here are also right, man does do evil. Not because of an effect from god as he is non-existant or a devil that is non-existant also, but from the mental illness and biological problems inside of them. So far we are batting 100 here right all the way around...lol That does not make a bit of sense.I'm sure its not your fault friend.Somebody told you a bunch of lies about God at some point in your life. No lies it is what is taught. If you are in control then you get to go to heaven if you say you go to heaven then, right? Also what the hell is the devil for if you are in control of yourself all the time? Maybe you were taught differently than I was but it is not lies. You really really were told wrong.You dont go to heaven when you die.The devil does not control anybody--he tempts them.There are a lot of people who dont know what they are talking about and always have been.Ive already explained this to you. You were taught wrong. I was not taught anything in a church because i dont go to church.I learned this stuff in college.

scttrbrain Joined Sun 04/08/07 Posts: 5769	Fri 01/04/08 07:31 PM
Ah welcome NY!!! To all involved... The problem arises out of the 'all-controlling' and 'all powerful' aspect... which I believe is completely ridiculous if you also include 'always loving' in that equation. There is no substantive and logical argument which explains why he would allow things like this to happen. If he were all-powerful he could stop things like this by any number of means... after all nothing is impossible with God... right? You are right, he performs miracles and stuff all the time according to the beliefs but he couldn't perform one on this occasion, so god says she deserved it. What did you just say?? I better leave this place. I am going to explode. Kat

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Fri 01/04/08 07:36 PM
Kat... I am sorry if this topic bothers you... please, my sincerest apologies... Although I will continue this debate because I want to expose the fradulent nature of this claim of an all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing God who meddles in human affairs. Please dear... you may not want to stay in this thread. The only reason the example was given is because of it's hideous nature... it was necessary to the point at hand. Love to you Kat

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Fri 01/04/08 07:37 PM
creative, you are right, god in these religions does have ultimate control and if he allows sins it is taught that it is for a reason. You are right in your analysis. Others on here are also right, man does do evil. Not because of an effect from god as he is non-existant or a devil that is non-existant also, but from the mental illness and biological problems inside of them. So far we are batting 100 here right all the way around...lol That does not make a bit of sense.I'm sure its not your fault friend.Somebody told you a bunch of lies about God at some point in your life. No lies it is what is taught. If you are in control then you get to go to heaven if you say you go to heaven then, right? Also what the hell is the devil for if you are in control of yourself all the time? Maybe you were taught differently than I was but it is not lies. You really really were told wrong.You dont go to heaven when you die.The devil does not control anybody--he tempts them.There are a lot of people who dont know what they are talking about and always have been.Ive already explained this to you. You were taught wrong. I was not taught anything in a church because i dont go to church.I learned this stuff in college. The joy of religion is there is no wrong and right it is all based on faith. Teaching in college are not the same as everywhere else. I don't even believe in a god but my family sent me to church, I have a catholic and baptist background and god is ultimately in control, we answer to him, he determines our worthiness or unworthiness, he is performing miracles all the time, he influences our choices, fixes our problems, brings us strength, etc........ That is what they teach so maybe you heard it wrong...lol

scttrbrain Joined Sun 04/08/07 Posts: 5769	Fri 01/04/08 07:38 PM
I am outta here. But you are about to have mail. Please read. Kat

MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Fri 01/04/08 07:39 PM
Mirror said... Ok. Ill try one more time---God cannot do anything because humans do not want him to. Man used his free will to reject God. If God interferred directly in human events that would violate our free will.It says in most of the holy books that God keeps his promises,Man does not. God would be breaking his promise if he intervened. OK.Now I'm outta here >>>>>>> Mirror, how does that make any sense? I mean do you not believe that an all powerful God would not have the resourcefulness to intervene without 'exposing' his deed? Personally if he knew, and he knew that he could do something, yet he did not....please... break the promise... it would show far more love than not. Does this make any sense?<<<<<<< Now you are starting to follow my line of thought.Man has free will this is established fact.God does not.God has his word.The only way for God to have free will is for him or her to become a human.This would be the way that God could keep his word and at the same time do whatever he wished according to his free will.Man wants it both ways.Man reject God but at the same time cries out for Gods intervention.If God is a human he could give it both ways just as Man wants.I'm trying to lead you into being honest with yourself about what you believe.I am an atheist because that is what I honestly believe not because of some silly anger at God.

scttrbrain Joined Sun 04/08/07 Posts: 5769	Fri 01/04/08 07:39 PM
Never mind. I do not meet your criteria. It was a question. Kat

MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Fri 01/04/08 07:41 PM Edited by MirrorMirror on Fri 01/04/08 07:42 PM
Kat... I am sorry if this topic bothers you... please, my sincerest apologies... Although I will continue this debate because I want to expose the fradulent nature of this claim of an all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing God who meddles in human affairs. Please dear... you may not want to stay in this thread. The only reason the example was given is because of it's hideous nature... it was necessary to the point at hand. Love to you Kat Ok, I see now you are getting it right. IT IS A FRAUDULANT CLAIM THAT GOD IS IN CONTROL BECAUSE THATS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE(or any other holy book) SAYS.PEOPLE SAY THAT NOT THE VARIOUS HOLY BOOKS.HUMANS ARE IN CONTROL.

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Fri 01/04/08 07:44 PM Edited by creativesoul on Fri 01/04/08 07:48 PM
Mirror: I have no personal issue with you or your answers... this is a debate...of sorts... I just am amused at the notion that some truly believe the illogical nature of an omni-benevolent God just kicking back and watching it all happen... It is a farce... nothing personal, I would just like to save anyone else from falling for that garbage...

MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Fri 01/04/08 07:46 PM
creative, you are right, god in these religions does have ultimate control and if he allows sins it is taught that it is for a reason. You are right in your analysis. Others on here are also right, man does do evil. Not because of an effect from god as he is non-existant or a devil that is non-existant also, but from the mental illness and biological problems inside of them. So far we are batting 100 here right all the way around...lol That does not make a bit of sense.I'm sure its not your fault friend.Somebody told you a bunch of lies about God at some point in your life. No lies it is what is taught. If you are in control then you get to go to heaven if you say you go to heaven then, right? Also what the hell is the devil for if you are in control of yourself all the time? Maybe you were taught differently than I was but it is not lies. You really really were told wrong.You dont go to heaven when you die.The devil does not control anybody--he tempts them.There are a lot of people who dont know what they are talking about and always have been.Ive already explained this to you. You were taught wrong. I was not taught anything in a church because i dont go to church.I learned this stuff in college. The joy of religion is there is no wrong and right it is all based on faith. Teaching in college are not the same as everywhere else. I don't even believe in a god but my family sent me to church, I have a catholic and baptist background and god is ultimately in control, we answer to him, he determines our worthiness or unworthiness, he is performing miracles all the time, he influences our choices, fixes our problems, brings us strength, etc........ That is what they teach so maybe you heard it wrong...lol What are you talking about???I already answered you.Yes, that is what they teach but that is not what the Holy Scriptures say.They teach it wrong and always have.Not all of them, but a lot of them.Humans told you this stuff---not God.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Fri 01/04/08 07:48 PM
Kat... I am sorry if this topic bothers you... please, my sincerest apologies... Although I will continue this debate because I want to expose the fradulent nature of this claim of an all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing God who meddles in human affairs. Please dear... you may not want to stay in this thread. The only reason the example was given is because of it's hideous nature... it was necessary to the point at hand. Love to you Kat Ok, I see now you are getting it right. IT IS A FRAUDULANT CLAIM THAT GOD IS IN CONTROL BECAUSE THATS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE(or any other holy book) SAYS.PEOPLE SAY THAT NOT THE VARIOUS HOLY BOOKS.HUMANS ARE IN CONTROL. I believe he is leaning more towards the teaching of the love god has for man and yet he allows horrible crimes to be committed against innocents who if noone else should be worthy of miracles of safety, innocents should be. Where is all the love???????

creativesoul Joined Mon 04/16/07 Posts: 9166	Fri 01/04/08 07:50 PM
Mirror: In regards to your remark of God not having free will... This is not logical to me... how can one give that which he does not possess?

MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Fri 01/04/08 07:50 PM
Mirror: I have no personal issue with you or your answers this is a debate...of sorts... I just am amused at the notion that some truly believe the illogical nature of an omni-benevolent God just kicking back and watching it all happen... It is a farce... nothing personal, I would just like to save anyone else from falling for that garbage... I enjoy discussing this with you when you dont suddenly change the subject when the answer doesnt suit you.Youve had some good question.You may deny this, but you really believe in God.I do not.I dont go around blaming things on a God that I do not believe exists.Im just trying to point out to you the paradox in your own answers.You believe in God.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Fri 01/04/08 07:51 PM
creative, you are right, god in these religions does have ultimate control and if he allows sins it is taught that it is for a reason. You are right in your analysis. Others on here are also right, man does do evil. Not because of an effect from god as he is non-existant or a devil that is non-existant also, but from the mental illness and biological problems inside of them. So far we are batting 100 here right all the way around...lol That does not make a bit of sense.I'm sure its not your fault friend.Somebody told you a bunch of lies about God at some point in your life. No lies it is what is taught. If you are in control then you get to go to heaven if you say you go to heaven then, right? Also what the hell is the devil for if you are in control of yourself all the time? Maybe you were taught differently than I was but it is not lies. You really really were told wrong.You dont go to heaven when you die.The devil does not control anybody--he tempts them.There are a lot of people who dont know what they are talking about and always have been.Ive already explained this to you. You were taught wrong. I was not taught anything in a church because i dont go to church.I learned this stuff in college. The joy of religion is there is no wrong and right it is all based on faith. Teaching in college are not the same as everywhere else. I don't even believe in a god but my family sent me to church, I have a catholic and baptist background and god is ultimately in control, we answer to him, he determines our worthiness or unworthiness, he is performing miracles all the time, he influences our choices, fixes our problems, brings us strength, etc........ That is what they teach so maybe you heard it wrong...lol What are you talking about???I already answered you.Yes, that is what they teach but that is not what the Holy Scriptures say.They teach it wrong and always have.Not all of them, but a lot of them.Humans told you this stuff---not God. You are losing me here because you keep going off on some kind of tantrum. God can't tell me anything he doesn't exist so all teaching are from man, every teaching there is is from man. No god exists to tell me anything. A story book from days of old cannot tell me anything from god because it was written by man. So WTH are you talking about?????!!!!!!!!!

MirrorMirror Joined Fri 10/26/07 Posts: 89680	Fri 01/04/08 07:54 PM Edited by MirrorMirror on Fri 01/04/08 07:55 PM
Kat... I am sorry if this topic bothers you... please, my sincerest apologies... Although I will continue this debate because I want to expose the fradulent nature of this claim of an all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing God who meddles in human affairs. Please dear... you may not want to stay in this thread. The only reason the example was given is because of it's hideous nature... it was necessary to the point at hand. Love to you Kat Ok, I see now you are getting it right. IT IS A FRAUDULANT CLAIM THAT GOD IS IN CONTROL BECAUSE THATS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE(or any other holy book) SAYS.PEOPLE SAY THAT NOT THE VARIOUS HOLY BOOKS.HUMANS ARE IN CONTROL. I believe he is leaning more towards the teaching of the love god has for man and yet he allows horrible crimes to be committed against innocents who if noone else should be worthy of miracles of safety, innocents should be. Where is all the love??????? What are you talking about????I already answered this.One more time---God does not allow suffering-- MAN DOES. I've already answered this question about miracles. I'm answering your questions but you are not liking the answers. You believe in God too.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Fri 01/04/08 07:55 PM
Mirror: I have no personal issue with you or your answers this is a debate...of sorts... I just am amused at the notion that some truly believe the illogical nature of an omni-benevolent God just kicking back and watching it all happen... It is a farce... nothing personal, I would just like to save anyone else from falling for that garbage... I enjoy discussing this with you when you dont suddenly change the subject when the answer doesnt suit you.Youve had some good question.You may deny this, but you really believe in God.I do not.I dont go around blaming things on a God that I do not believe exists.Im just trying to point out to you the paradox in your own answers.You believe in God. There is the possiblity of being spiritual without believing in a manmade religion or a god in the sense of modern religions. Creative is deeply spiritual, in the sense that he has a strong, seeing spirit inside of him. He would not question a religion he believes in. Personally you sound more like an angry believer than creative or I do.