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| Topic: Was Jesus God? | |
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Eljay, I have witnessed a tremendous amount of peace within some that absolutely made me stand in awe... humbly in awe... Some of these were in fact of the Christian faith, and some were not... but they each had an unmistakable light which shined through and spread peace without saying a word, only for it to be validated with words after... Regardless of their relationship with Christ or lack thereof, these people had 'God' living within, undeniably alive in spirit... What is the measure to you Eljay, of 'God's' peace living within one?...<<<<<<< "God's peace" as youi refer to it is not something I equate with the "Holy Spirit" - which is the spirit of God. I've seen that "God's peace" within others as well - just after passing the bong around the room. The concept of which you speak I see as merely subjective. Appropriate for the time of witness, and not representative (necessarily) of an ongoing relationship with Jesus. You said: Just an indication of what basic tennents you find disagreeable will give me some sort of idea. >>>>>>> I thought that I had clearly given a couple of those examples with my previous post...<<<<<<< Actually you merely stated there were inconsistancies and edited, I know not what you are refering to. >>>>>>> I do not believe that Jesus intended on becoming Christianity's marytr. The crucifixion and the subsequent 'resurrection' is Christianity's version of the gospel... edited as such... because it fit existing scripture and fulfilled accepted prophesy... However scripture itself contradicts you. So what is your source for this opinion. Throughout what is still available, and when compared to many of the ancient scriptural finds, there does seem a much different and deeper level of understanding that his teaching was based of the gnosis variety teaching that which lies within one. John adresses this issue in his letters. It is not a popular view, nor a supported one. Christianity's view is considerably different, although there are certain teachings which seem to have made it through the editorial process which support this notion quite strongly, regardless of the way it is commonly used. It is my belief that the 'good news' is the fact that 'God' lives within each of us, and we must look within in order to remove that which stops us from recognizing. <<<<<<< Again - this is contrairy to scripture. Where does this idea you have of "God living in each of us" come from? This is not consistant with biblical doctrine - or the teaching of Jesus, so I'm curious. >>>>>>> May I ask you where and how you have arrived at a belief which has determined that the actual followers were indeed, the authors? I ask because this account which you give does go against both religious and non-religious historians accounts, as I have come to understand. <<<<<<< Until they come up with definitive people to attribute the writing of the gospels to, I'll go with who we know the writers to be historically. It's easy to say "I doubt the authors were the true contemporaries of Jesus" since there is no means to definitively disprove that statement - however attributing these doubts as truth would necessitate these "experts" demonstrating WHO else wrote them, rather than merely doubting they were written by the authors who claimed so within the gospels themselves. >>>>>>> We have, in fact, a significant historical record, which is overwhelmingly in agreement with the notion that the Bible has been edited by men, throughout it's history, and has evolved along the way. I need a reference for this claim. Where are these records? The measure of the worthiness of any given scripture was completely dependant on the editor, which usually if not always, was contingient upon what had already been accepted as truth. Editor? The accuracy of the scripture comes from the original manuscripts that have been discovered. What is this idea of an editor? This is a self-fulfilling way to stay afloat, is it not? Of course it seems to all fit within itself. Jesus went against this notion, and it is still captured in some of what is left of his teaching(s).Therefore the need to fulfill the scripture took Christianity away from it's original intent, I believe. I'm still waiting for you to fill me in on these teachings of Jesus that were "edited out". What are they, and how did you come to discover them? |
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Eljay,
You said: "God's peace" as youi refer to it is not something I equate with the "Holy Spirit" - which is the spirit of God. I've seen that "God's peace" within others as well - just after passing the bong around the room. The concept of which you speak I see as merely subjective. Appropriate for the time of witness, and not representative (necessarily) of an ongoing relationship with Jesus. >>>>>>> Your approach here Eljay has me quite taken aback, I am sorry to say. You just quite mistakenly equated a point of mine with your use of marijuana in a social setting, not mine. I am quite deeply disappointed in this... truly, I did not expect this perspective from you, and it indicates that your sincerity in this exchange is something other than 'in good faith.' Everything in life is subjective Eljay... except 'the way'... Eljay, it is the Christmas season, and that is a very important time of year for Christianity. As a result of this acknowledgement, and my respect and wish for you and your family to enjoy the season fully, I will not be participating in further exchanges, based upon the dynamic that this one has displayed. I would like to leave you with some words that we can both appreciate deeply within ourselves... "The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it" "Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me." "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount of flour until it worked all through the dough." "Therefore every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old." "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean'..." "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you lose on earth will be loosed in heaven." "For whoever exhalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exhalted." "And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; Do not worry about it...But seek his kingdom and these things will be given to you as well." "But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by perserverence produce a good crop." "I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." "The kingdom of God does not come from your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is.', or 'There it is.' because the kingdom of God is within you." Have a Merry Christmas Eljay... I send much love to you and your family.  |
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Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 833 Wed 12/19/07 12:48 PM Where did Yahshua ever say he was the Father Yahweh? Shalom..Miles Quote | Reply Spidercmb Joined Fri 04/27/07 Posts: 3578 Wed 12/19/07 12:53 PM QUOTE: Where did Yahshua ever say he was the Father Yahweh? Shalom..Miles Who spoke from the burning bush? Jesus or YVWH? Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Immediately after saying that, the people who heard him picked up rocks to stone Jesus to death for BLASPHEMY. Jews didn't stone people for being crazy, but they did for Blasphemy. According to Jesus, he spoke to Moses from the burning bush. Report Post | Quote | Reply CraniumDesigns Joined Fri 10/05/07 Posts: 90 Wed 12/19/07 12:56 PM QUOTE: Where did Yahshua ever say he was the Father Yahweh? Shalom..Miles John 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Word = Jesus John 10:30 "I and the Father are one." Isa 44:6 6 Thus saith Yahweh the King of Israel, and his redeemer Yahweh of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no Elohim. KJV Just what does that say and mean? John 8:28-30 28 Then Yahshua said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. 29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him." 30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him. NKJV If that is not self explanatory.. Tradition has transfered from the Jews and you have become 1..Blessings...Miles |
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Edited by
Milesoftheusa
on
Fri 12/21/07 10:41 PM
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Has anyone seen Yahweh the Father and Lived? Miles
In your household are you and your wife 1 to your children. Speak the same? Does that make you 1 person? I am.. Blasphemy.Yahshua was the one in the burning bush. He was Yahweh's messenger.His son who came in his name. John 5:41-6:1 1 "I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of Elohim in you. 43 I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. WHO HAS COME IN HIS OWN NAME THAT YOU ACCEPT? 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only Elohim? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; Why would he say anything about him accussing him to himself? there is one who accuses you — Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" NKJV Do you believe Moses? Matt 23:2-3 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. NKJV Do you do what Moses says? Yahshua said to. Why did the Jews hold thier ears and run on stephen and stone him. What Blasphemy was stephen saying. Is Stephen Elohim? Acts 7:54-8:1 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of Yahweh, and Yahshua ( 2 distint names and elohims) standing at the right hand of Yahweh, 56 and said, "Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of Yahweh!" How can you stand at the right hand of yourself? 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord;( what made them so mad? did he claim he was I AM?) 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on Yahweh and saying, "Master Yahshua, receive my spirit." 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice,"Master, do not charge them with this sin." And when he had said this, he fell asleep. If the scriptures do not completely align with each other then give in and Agree with Abra. At least you will be held less accountable. Study to shew yourself approved and don't be like the scribes and pharasees as Yahshua and stephen said. NKJV Acts 7:51-53 "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it." NKJV Shalom May Yahweh's Mercy Abound...Miles |
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>>>>>>> Your approach here Eljay has me quite taken aback, I am sorry to say. You just quite mistakenly equated a point of mine with your use of marijuana in a social setting, not mine. A matter of perspective and assumption. What makes you think I participated? I said I witnessed it. Thus proving my point of "conclusions" being subjective. I am quite deeply disappointed in this... truly, I did not expect this perspective from you, and it indicates that your sincerity in this exchange is something other than 'in good faith.' Everything in life is subjective Eljay... except 'the way'... If it makes you feel any better - I'm not a user. However I work in an environment where it runs amok. Eljay, it is the Christmas season, and that is a very important time of year for Christianity. As a result of this acknowledgement, and my respect and wish for you and your family to enjoy the season fully, I will not be participating in further exchanges, based upon the dynamic that this one has displayed. I would like to leave you with some words that we can both appreciate deeply within ourselves... "The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it" "Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me." "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount of flour until it worked all through the dough." "Therefore every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old." "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean'..." "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you lose on earth will be loosed in heaven." "For whoever exhalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exhalted." "And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; Do not worry about it...But seek his kingdom and these things will be given to you as well." "But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by perserverence produce a good crop." "I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." "The kingdom of God does not come from your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is.', or 'There it is.' because the kingdom of God is within you." So - which of these are edited, or not the intent of Jesus, or acceptable. That has been my question. Have a Merry Christmas Eljay... I send much love to you and your family. And a very Merry Christmas to you and yours my friend. God Bless. |
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The beauty in it all is the fact that it has and does change lives for the better... regardless of the interpretation...
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The beauty in it all is the fact that it has and does change lives for the better... regardless of the interpretation...
Amen to that 
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Edited by
jonlaw
on
Mon 12/24/07 11:40 AM
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"
Quote" I even take it a step farther, I think he may have started out as a con man, or a type of evangelist for money,(some type of show man) and that over time he started to buy into the message. So by the end of his life he was willing to die for these beliefs which had started out as a way to make money.Quote" Wow sometimes Rabbit I think you do not even believe what you say. I find everywhere there is a thread about Christian view points there you are slamming it to me thats not debate ,but you are entitled to your opinion and I won.t slam or belittle you for it even if you name a teddybear Jesus |
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I'll give you my reasoning Jonlaw- I look around today and I see that there are no miracle's happening. If that is the case that also means they didn't happen during the time of Jesus. I like the fact that Jesus taught about the poor, the weak, the sick, the peaceful. He also did supposed miracle's. The only way to do "miracle's" is the same way Houdini did them. Be a showman and draw a crowd. So Jesus used these tricks to draw in a crowd of followers. |
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Miracle #1 I was supposed to die of ovarian cancer......didn't
Miracle #2 I was diagnosed with breast cancer......supposed to die.....and if saved have both breast removed.......didn't Miracle #3 My boss was a party animal drug doing man......I prayed for him to get a bible in prison October 27th He did....and couldn't explain why his quest for God......I know why Miracle #4 When my mom was dying of cancer, and I asked God for a sign......thousands of lil lavendar butterflies all around.....they were there and then poof gone....... |
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Like I have said and many others - you show me one person that regrows a limb and I will believe. Until then I think you are one lucky person. |
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If your only come back is growing a limb......get over it.....geeeeeezzzzzzz.
A miracle is a miracle is a miracle and I have a lifetime full of them.....So if you want to be a doubting danny all your life....you just go for it...But for me....I know of His Love...I know of the miracles he performs on a daily basis....and especially for this weekend.....on His birthday nothing you can say or do will take it away......What HE is and what HE does. |
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" " Like I have said and many others - you show me one person that regrows a limb and I will believe. Until then I think you are one lucky person. Hey Rabbit. You have a wonderful holiday and we will discuss things later. I love ya my friend and wish you the best in your investigations.  |
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JESUS was NOT???????He IS GOD
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Rabbitt
Yahshua did not really do that many miracles. Satan Tempted Yahshua that the angels would catch him if he fell off a cliff. Yet He said do not tempt Yahweh your Elohim. Miracles are done in ways we do not understand.Have you ever had something on your mind and not paying attention then all of a sudden stop for no reason. Then a car or truck goes wizzing by.I have seen many miracles they come by faith not doubting. Who knows what Yahweh has in store for us.But believing in what you can not see is faith. Your father knows what you have need of. when to protect you and when to let you learn a lesson the hard way. It is know different than we raise our own children That is what Yahweh is doing Raising a people for his name.. May Yahweh Bless You..Shalom...Miles |
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beautifully said Miles......
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Miracle #1 I was supposed to die of ovarian cancer......didn't Miracle #2 I was diagnosed with breast cancer......supposed to die.....and if saved have both breast removed.......didn't Miracle #3 My boss was a party animal drug doing man......I prayed for him to get a bible in prison October 27th He did....and couldn't explain why his quest for God......I know why Miracle #4 When my mom was dying of cancer, and I asked God for a sign......thousands of lil lavendar butterflies all around.....they were there and then poof gone....... There are basically two lines of reasoning wrong with this,… First off, what about all the people of faith who were not saved from these kinds of disasters? What do you say to the very devout religious people who’s children have died from terrible diseases, accidents, wars, and whatnot. Why isn’t God looking out for them? Secondly, why are Christians so hell bent on acting like avoiding death is such a great miracle? It seems to me that if they truly believe than when they die they will be with their lord in heaven then dying would be the greatest thing that could ever happen to them. Having death postponed would be a bummer. That would only mean that they need to stick around in this pathetic world with all these sinful people all that much longer. So why do they view the avoidance of death to be such a miracle? They sound more like they are truly atheists when they suggest that remaining alive in this world is better than dying. To me, these kinds of testimonials merely show that these so-called believers genuinely don’t believe what they claim to believe, but rather they really do just have an extreme fear of death. Being saved from death should never be considered to be a miracle by someone who believes that they are going to a better place when they did. Just sounds to me like you genuinely don't believe in heaven after all. |
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Miracle #1 I was supposed to die of ovarian cancer......didn't Miracle #2 I was diagnosed with breast cancer......supposed to die.....and if saved have both breast removed.......didn't Miracle #3 My boss was a party animal drug doing man......I prayed for him to get a bible in prison October 27th He did....and couldn't explain why his quest for God......I know why Miracle #4 When my mom was dying of cancer, and I asked God for a sign......thousands of lil lavendar butterflies all around.....they were there and then poof gone....... There are basically two lines of reasoning wrong with this,… First off, what about all the people of faith who were not saved from these kinds of disasters? What do you say to the very devout religious people who’s children have died from terrible diseases, accidents, wars, and whatnot. Why isn’t God looking out for them? Secondly, why are Christians so hell bent on acting like avoiding death is such a great miracle? It seems to me that if they truly believe than when they die they will be with their lord in heaven then dying would be the greatest thing that could ever happen to them. Having death postponed would be a bummer. That would only mean that they need to stick around in this pathetic world with all these sinful people all that much longer. So why do they view the avoidance of death to be such a miracle? They sound more like they are truly atheists when they suggest that remaining alive in this world is better than dying. To me, these kinds of testimonials merely show that these so-called believers genuinely don’t believe what they claim to believe, but rather they really do just have an extreme fear of death. Being saved from death should never be considered to be a miracle by someone who believes that they are going to a better place when they did. Just sounds to me like you genuinely don't believe in heaven after all. Very good question......But you failed to ask what I went through when I was going through it....and if I was resigned to know that if I died that I would know where I was going....and the answer is yes. But I also think at least for me that God has a reason for everything that happens....and we might not know what that is for years and years to come. When my mom died I did not think I would live through it...I did and I was also able to help others going through it...and with everyone I helped and spoke about my situation the less the pain was. And it's not the death thats the miracle Abra....It's the answering of prayer that is the miracle...The kind that leave the doctors stumped and not knowing why your not dead and you knowing exactly why your not....But it's not the death at all....Because I am sure like myself that death is not a frightening aspect for me. And I do not fear death in the least...... P.S. Merry Christmas Abra......and I truly hope the New Year brings much peace and joy for you and yours. |
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Jesus is NOT God,he is the SON of God.how many times is this question going to come up?
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