And as for Oldkid, I have to refresh my memory on the school voucher thing. It was interesting how a "liberal" wants to keep kids in a failing government school instead of moving them to a "good one". Seems like they just don't want to admit the system sucks. And I did very poorly in school, not because I was dumb, I just had "better things to do", like getting high. someone should have handed me a paintbrush instead of putting me in a group of kids that didn't think like me. That's a microcosm of what I'm trying to say. People are individuals, we are not a heard of cattle.

herd, oops. I swear I'm not dumb!!

I like the fact we all talked about this so long and nobody got sarcastic, snarky or mean. Very nice.

I've got the blood of kings from both sides of the family. To bad the kingdoms were taken over and are apart of the British Commonwealth now.

I'm half Sicilian, I don't even know what I am!!!

You are who you are as long as you make the effort to become that person you are. As a kid knowing I was from a long line of champions and kings made me fell like I had to be the best. Than I finally stopped worrying about such things. Believe it or not it was Popeye the Sailor's, "I ams what I ams, and that's all I ams". That snapped me out of such thinking.

If you believe that more money makes a better public education, then you are concerned that private school vouchers reduce the amount of money available to the public schools. In some areas the public school system will actually provide some types of alternative school or an altered curriculum for students who do not "fit well" in a traditional school setting.

I don't think about it too much, If I did I would have become a gangster. Oh my Sicilian brothers and sisters... We come from a long line of thieves and murderers. I can say that right? I am half Sicilian.

You forgot one important detail: The curriculum may be uniform, but there are schools far shlttier than others - and being restricted to districts, pigeon holes your education course from the start. A conditioning can take place - and it doesn't matter that the opportunity is there, because there was never really an opportunity to begin with. I would never go to a school that compromised my safety, for example......But, you're right in that, it certainly is socialism!

I'm not sure how many more lives need to be extinguished or ruined at the hands of
socialism, for these fools to clue in on what it actually does.

I'm glad to see some freedom lovers coming out. I thought I was alone.

There's always people who want to take freedom away from others. Forcing us to pay for their mistakes is what the socialists are about.

Socialism is nothing more,
than envy and greed.

Why do leftist think punishing and regulating innovative people is economically viable? Even Sociably? some want to throw out a number, alright 1 billion dollars we tax you at 100% so what? Elon Musk stops sending satellites to space to give everyone in the world internet? does he shut down Tesla? Should he not alleviate traffic with his boring company? Should Amazon be broken up because they are too efficient at giving people what they want? I can go on and on... We are communicating through a medium devised and created through capitalism, arguing is very exhausting... I am a loser, I made many bad choices. I'm smart and capable but I am still poor. I don't blame anyone for it. It's on me. Luckily life is short. Enjoy what you have and don't blame other people for your short comings.

Bottom line for me is we do not live in caves. In society we live AMONGST others, so we DO in fact impact and are impacted by others.


I don't care for the labels because I feel they are used as emotional fear mongering tactics these days. It is like with 'religious values'. What is that? In the Bible it teaches not to steal or murder, so does that make those things 'religious values'? How do we pretend things fall neatly or squarely in one box, when instead there can be a GREAT DEAL of overlap between political ideas and values.


Arguing about 'concepts' does little towards discussing reality. For instance, the fist definition I find for 'socialism' is this:


a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.


Nevermind that it deals with 'production' and not services. In political fodder, it is applied to both. And if we take a very 'American' concept of "of the people, for the people, and BY the people", it can be argued some form of 'socialism' is designed to be included in our American fabric. It can also be argued that public services (for the people) are also a part of that fabric.


So the idea that there should be no private property does not have to coexist with the idea that communities or 'the people' should own more of what they are contributing to. Workers contribute to profits. The idea they should be better represented for it is not a terrible one. Citizens spend a lifetime paying taxes. The idea that those funds should likewise be an available cushion for them when and if needed is also not a terrible one. If someone is innovative, they should be rewarded, but not at the expense of those who help them MAKE something profitable from that innovation. The innovator should be rewarded, but so should those who labor to help the innovator create more from their innovation than an idea.

There are levels. It is not all either/or. It is not all simply boxed and labeled.

Blast it Ms H.
I WAS going to have my say, but you said it so much better.
I'll never compete.

The big debate and part of the 2020 election is where to draw that line between capitalism and socialism. Most of us realize in reality that some of both are required to have sustainable economic success and a stable society. We have seen countries be destroyed by excess socialism and we have seen governments overthrown for too much capitalism. A certain amount of socialism is necessary within a capitalistic society to provide for those who are not physically or mentally capable of providing for themselves. Providing that support for certain groups is what we expect of our government. What we don't expect or accept is when government taxes us to help support those who are capable but unwilling to support themselves and their families.

If I take Msh definition of socialism "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole" then I cannot support the idea of socialism. Taking some of the proceeds from that effort is necessary but that control over the means (such as nationalizing a company or sector) is not acceptable!! A number of countries have tried that with disastrous results.

Just wait comrades, until you realize how hard you try and how little I care, and we have the same outcome. You'll change your philosophy. I guarantee.

Just wait comrades, until you realize how hard you try and how little I care, and we have the same outcome. You'll change your philosophy. I guarantee.

Everyone shills for something, and the poor folks who shill for socialism or communism find that they left out HUMAN NATURE when they made their brilliant political choices.

History shows that the system they get is foul and is now run by the unaccountable few who now want to make slaves of them. (Make that "SILENT" slaves...)

Socialism is for pack mules, although the individual mules start packing less once they feel that everyone else is slacking. Or, as the Russian populace used to say "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us."

I like it right here in the U.S. where we have enough power hungry people attempting to fleece us, but the Constitution makes things happen slow enough that no idiots have been able to tear the place down (yet).

However, more than ever before, the populace has been programmed to be in hysteria 24/7. As in "1984," there is a new hysteria every day, and the hysteria of yesterday is dropped and forgotten on cue to be replaced with new hysteria (and sometimes slogans, lol). When you can program so much of the populace that easily, bad things will follow...