and yes i used the hyper inflated number for the # of people killed during the burning times, the fact of the matter is no one knows how many were killed the number ranges all over, i just used the one that came to my mind as i recalled the info i knew, forgive my hasty recollection. i can admit when i'm wrong. Many of the people persecuted weren't recorded because they were pagans, country folk that would otherwise go unnoticed, so there is absolutely no correct stats. As for the historians on crusades they are all over the map, so no not all historians are liars, just the Christian ones....lol j/k don't blow a gasket.

It doesn't matter what Christians believe about Jihad, what matter is that 100 million Muslims think that it means they should take the world for Islam. 100 million Muslims believe that Jihad gives them the right to kill women and children to acheive their goals. That's what matters.


ACK!!!!!! are you for real?

Yes, most experts on Islam agree that about 10% of muslims (100 million) ascribe to radical beliefs, including that they should take the world for Islam.

Only in his delusions.

Everyone says that the religion forums on this site contain more arguments than any other forum.

Proof positive that religion causes more greif than good in all its forms.

Religion = root of all evil.

i guess the only progressive thing to do is to agree to disagree, there is no point in arguing about religion, how do you argue with a belief? all i have to say is watch Dogma...it changed my life, lol. God Bless Kevin Smith!!!

Amen to that God Bless Kevin Smith

Abra,

Not intent upon disturbing your perspective, but you stand among us in the very debate.

If we all empty ourselves of self and just 'be' then we can all just grow roots and become trees swaying in the breeze. Now THAT'S what I call Nirvana. I exist, therfore I am. If you saw one raised from the dead, would that be enough proof that their God loved them and was real. Well, I have. Your theories will never come close, or your skewing of incomplete historical facts. All you have is sarcasm, iguess that beats raising from the dead to some. .......

Religions are fascism trying to tell people how they must believe and behave. If it wasn't for this kind of fanatical fascism there'd be no need to oppose it.

This would be like suggesting that doctors who are out to rid the world of cancer are somehow contributing to the disease.

Yes, I oppose fascism.

If it wasn't for the religion's desire and intent on trying to convert everyone to their way of thinking there'd be no problem. This is the basis of the problem Wouldee. They insist on converting everyone to their way of thinking. This is what makes is a fascism.

If they can ever stop their fascism behavior then maybe the problem would go away.

It is true that there is only one God, but perhaps he is inclusive and not exclusive, meaning there are many paths to salvation because God is shown in many ways, forms, or perhaps understood as another "religion's" deity?
I believe too many Christians are far too exclusive, God is love, and no man is in good epistemic position to make the decision on truth as God created it.
Because man is so meakly powerful, and our capabilities are significantly insufficient as such that we can not make these decisions, it is logical to me to believe that there is always a chance at salvation, even after death, even if perhaps it can only be obtained through Jesus christ. For Jesus did die on the cross for ALL man kind, not just those who believed, but the chance for salvation was there for even those who stabbed, cursed toward, and tortured him. Jesus said "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." That includes us all.
Point being, God is truly omipotent and if you believe God is the creator and all things stem from him, which you must if a blissful jsut salvation could be, then even the remotest parts of hell (Satan himself) contain the slightest fragment of God and the good of His creation. Therefore, there is always a chance at salvation.
Some believe punishment for an offence is a merrit of the greatness of the person being offended, but God is forgiving, and just, and love in its purest created form. Therefore the finite offense of sin against the infinite being God, does not merrit infinite punishment. There is no correlation there.
And as far as the man of faith in a foxhole: "The splendor of things excellent is often enhance by its surroundings, just as a star shines most brightly on the darkest of nights."
Larger than the sufferings one must endure here on earth with our finite mental, and emotional capabilities is the light that stems from an infinites beings glory. Be a star in the time of your life's darkness, it just may light the way for someone else on a dark night.

I believe in good and evil and right and wrong. Lets not forget that the bible is a book. A book that someone wrote that you can buy in any book store. It is just a book.

everything has a beginning. where did our concepts of good and evil even come from? how can we know what is good with a definite standard to compare it to?

basically at some point something HAD to be created for this universe to exist. things dont just exist for no reason, and out of nothing. so the only explanation i can think of is that someone OUTSIDE the laws of nature, time, and space, creating those laws and we can't comprehend what that THING is.

now this does not point to a christian god per se, but at least a creator. i believe science and religion can coexist. science is just explaining the process of what god did.

but then again, this whole evolution vs creationism debate will go on forever until one is proven wrong, so what i say really doesnt matter. people are gonna believe what they want.

late night rambling is FUN!