(HI Lex!)

I don't believe I'm superior to anybody. I'm me. And I do that better than anyone else. I realize there are those that believe they're superior..but that arguement stands no matter what we're talking about. Beauty, financial, material objects...there are people in every catagory that believe they are better than someone.

at the same time i see people going from day to day, knowing where they are headed, it hurts me to see people lost, granted you dont feel this way, but in my heart i want people to experiecne what i have with God in my life, there is a difference, which no Atheist has ever experienced

Look I am a christian but a true christian does not look down on you but just feels sorry for you. I know that even sounded bad but if you look at it in our shoes we believe that there is a higher power and he loves everyone and even people that do believe in God but are sinners we feel sorry for because we know they have no chance to go to heaven. So what I would like to do is appologize if one of us christians made you feel like we were aboveyou because we ain't. If we are true christians we know God loves everyone even athiests even if they don't love him back. So again I appologize for this and hope your life is everything you want it to be for it is your choice and only your choice to choose what you believe in.

It is easy to disprove but the real task is prooving something to exist. You see I can drink water, I know its there and wet and cold or hot but when it comes to god, can you show him to me? Can you point him out in a crowd? Can you right now send him here to shake my hand? No you can't, just like I cannot proove he does not exist. Like I said, it all comes down to belief but we are swaying off topic.

(HI Lex!)

I don't believe I'm superior to anybody. I'm me. And I do that better than anyone else. I realize there are those that believe they're superior..but that arguement stands no matter what we're talking about. Beauty, financial, material objects...there are people in every catagory that believe they are better than someone.


im noticing alot of stero-types on such an issue which dont apply to the majority..

It is easy to disprove but the real task is prooving something to exist. You see I can drink water, I know its there and wet and cold or hot but when it comes to god, can you show him to me? Can you point him out in a crowd? Can you right now send him here to shake my hand? No you can't, just like I cannot proove he does not exist. Like I said, it all comes down to belief but we are swaying off topic.



With this attitude love doesnt exist, feelings dont exist
=======
Why would evolution created feelings? EMotions? That sounds like irony when it comes to the purpose of evolution dont you think?

I know I'm off track here, but I have to disagree with one statement in here. "I know that even sounded bad but if you look at it in our shoes we believe that there is a higher power and he loves everyone and even people that do believe in God but are sinners we feel sorry for because we know they have no chance to go to heaven" God forgives our sins. Because we sin does not me we won't get to walk in heaven.

They do it to everyone, not just athiests. They do it to Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Pagans, Wiccans, Witches, hell they even do it do eachother. Haven't you ever seen how they tear eachother apart within the different denominations within the Christian faith? It's just what they do. However, not all of them are like this. Most are, though.

Yeah, but if you reject the concept of "holiness" overall, then the whole idea carries no weight.

As an atheist, I have heard MANY Christians use a "holier than thou" stance when arguing their positions. And it always comes across as "superior to thou." And, yeah, that's a major turnoff.




But if you rejhect holy arnt you in turn rejecting good vs evil casue afterall "the tree of good and evil" is made up?

Even then who control good vs evil ? I hope you wouldnt say societal standards?


"Good" and "evil" are anthropocentric conventions, and do not exist outside of human standards. The problem is that they have been arbitrarily defined and propagated. At one time, the connotations were fairly simple -- "good" was anything that benefits or preserves people's lives, "evil" was anything that harmed or endangered them.

As we developed into a more and more brainwashed and controlled society (I'm talking the US here), the standards have been corrupted through the intervention of other influences -- i.e., smoker's rights have been drastically curtailed while nothing at all is done about alcohol abuse. It's selective enforcement, and a lot of times the selection process is based on who has the most money to contribute to the right campaigns.

If you're trying to equate "holy" with "good" -- typically, this is seen as a "higher" or "more spiritual" good -- I would still regard this as totally arbitrary. Is Jesus "holier" than the guy who works in the oil change place down the street? Christians would say so. I wouldn't necessarily assume that to be the case, because the concept of "holiness" means nothing to me.

By the way, the bible talks about the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil (Gen 2:9) -- so the sin was in trying to obtain knowledge....OK....

Evolution created cells, which created muscles and organs, so on and so forth. Evolution also created a brain. A brain can decide if it's body is cold or hot, hungry or thirsty, it a no brainer (lol) to think it can think of love and hate, emotions. If you were to drink water, hot water and it burned youre tounge, your brain would tell you, "hey, thats hot, don't drink that again". From that would come memory. Remembering that water was hot. You would remember it hurt when you drank it which would give you a sense of dislike for hot water which is an emotion, dislike.

"Good" and "evil" are anthropocentric conventions, and do not exist outside of human standards. The problem is that they have been arbitrarily defined and propagated. At one time, the connotations were fairly simple -- "good" was anything that benefits or preserves people's lives, "evil" was anything that harmed or endangered them.

As we developed into a more and more brainwashed and controlled society (I'm talking the US here), the standards have been corrupted through the intervention of other influences -- i.e., smoker's rights have been drastically curtailed while nothing at all is done about alcohol abuse. It's selective enforcement, and a lot of times the selection process is based on who has the most money to contribute to the right campaigns.

If you're trying to equate "holy" with "good" -- typically, this is seen as a "higher" or "more spiritual" good -- I would still regard this as totally arbitrary. Is Jesus "holier" than the guy who works in the oil change place down the street? Christians would say so. I wouldn't necessarily assume that to be the case, because the concept of "holiness" means nothing to me.

By the way, the bible talks about the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil (Gen 2:9) -- so the sin was in trying to obtain knowledge....OK....




Whats good then, describe good. Defin evil describe evil give me examples of such. Cause after all without some "higher standards" this is all relative, the killer is not actually evil casue in his mind hes pure he justifys his actions. why punish such a man?

The sin was not obtaining knowledge but the fact that being human we disobey and not listen, that is a sin, but again i think you knew this one

and you believe since everything has a brain it has emotions?

Hey, Qwich!

Just want to point out that I am in agreement with you on the idea that this "superiority" thing can come from any direction.

Don't get me wrong, I will come down on religious hypocrisy as soon and as hard as the next ungodly heathen, but I'm not against individual people who happen to be Christians. My best friend is about as devout as they come, and we torture each other mercilessly about our beliefs, but it's all done out of love and respect (although someone listening in on some of the discussions might not catch that part).

And I have never met a finer person in my life. Even if he is a Christian!

Christians will never admit that they are acting "holier than thou" because they truely believe what they are saying and doing is commissioned by Jesus himself... to spread the "good news" of his sacrifice for our sins on the cross and his ressurection. If that means showing us the "sinners" that they believe we are and telling us how much we need "saving" then that's what they'll do. They truely believe they are on a mission from God himself to help spread the gospel of the saving grace of Jesus. Otherwise, they might stand before their God at judgement day and he (God) will question why weren't they faithful and tell the gospel story to everyone they encountered especially "Sally, Jane, and Joe?" They don't want to stand before their God on judgement day with blood on their hands. That's why they are holier than though and they will never admit to it. We are supposed to tolerate them because they are right, we are wrong, and unless we convert, we are going to hell, and they are going to heaven.

Can you name one living thing with a brain that does not?

I know I'm off track here, but I have to disagree with one statement in here. "I know that even sounded bad but if you look at it in our shoes we believe that there is a higher power and he loves everyone and even people that do believe in God but are sinners we feel sorry for because we know they have no chance to go to heaven" God forgives our sins. Because we sin does not me we won't get to walk in heaven.


Ok you may disagree but I was always taught that if you sinned you had to ask forgiveness again. It's not like you can become a christian ask forgiveness for your sins then go kill someone and go to heaven if your saying that then you need to open your bible. Being a christian does not give you the right to sin but should keep you from it. I am not saying christians don't sin but true christians ask forgiveness if they do.

"Good" and "evil" are anthropocentric conventions, and do not exist outside of human standards. The problem is that they have been arbitrarily defined and propagated. At one time, the connotations were fairly simple -- "good" was anything that benefits or preserves people's lives, "evil" was anything that harmed or endangered them.

As we developed into a more and more brainwashed and controlled society (I'm talking the US here), the standards have been corrupted through the intervention of other influences -- i.e., smoker's rights have been drastically curtailed while nothing at all is done about alcohol abuse. It's selective enforcement, and a lot of times the selection process is based on who has the most money to contribute to the right campaigns.

If you're trying to equate "holy" with "good" -- typically, this is seen as a "higher" or "more spiritual" good -- I would still regard this as totally arbitrary. Is Jesus "holier" than the guy who works in the oil change place down the street? Christians would say so. I wouldn't necessarily assume that to be the case, because the concept of "holiness" means nothing to me.

By the way, the bible talks about the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil (Gen 2:9) -- so the sin was in trying to obtain knowledge....OK....




Whats good then, describe good. Defin evil describe evil give me examples of such. Cause after all without some "higher standards" this is all relative, the killer is not actually evil casue in his mind hes pure he justifys his actions. why punish such a man?

The sin was not obtaining knowledge but the fact that being human we disobey and not listen, that is a sin, but again i think you knew this one


That's my whole point -- there is no "absolute good." If we take "good" to mean that which is beneficial for human life, that presupposes that human life is of some value and deserves to be preserved. I'm saying that presupposition may be incorrect, and it hardly makes sense for us, as parties with a "vested" interest," so to speak, to be the ones making that decision.

I can't give you examples of something that I don't believe exists. It has nothing to do with anything other than conventionally accepted interpretations, ingrained through centuries of indoctrination and tradition. You're perfectly free to accept those beliefs as valid. I choose not to.

Don’t feel special. Christians look down on everyone equally.

Heres what I believe. We are here, for good for bad, whatever, we are here and we have to make the best of it but in no way is anyone better than another, for any reason. Some may have faults that stand out more than others but we all have faults, yes even you. I will leave this page to go to bed on one note; take a look back at all the wars in the world from times begining and you will see the majority and a large majority of them being over religious beliefs. I have this shirt that says "Jesus Christ" in the coca cola font, you know the one, it say enernally refreshing underneith it. Yeah that one. Well I crossed out the eternally refreshing part and marked in my own words. They say "causing war for over two thousand years" and you know it, deep in your heart, to be the truth. Simply because no religion will ever submit to another is why we even have wars. It's sad to think of all the people who have killed or been killed in the name of their god.

Goodnight to all, it has been a pleasure.

Eternally yours,
eternalsun

I know I'm off track here, but I have to disagree with one statement in here. "I know that even sounded bad but if you look at it in our shoes we believe that there is a higher power and he loves everyone and even people that do believe in God but are sinners we feel sorry for because we know they have no chance to go to heaven" God forgives our sins. Because we sin does not me we won't get to walk in heaven.


Ok you may disagree but I was always taught that if you sinned you had to ask forgiveness again. It's not like you can become a christian ask forgiveness for your sins then go kill someone and go to heaven if your saying that then you need to open your bible. Being a christian does not give you the right to sin but should keep you from it. I am not saying christians don't sin but true christians ask forgiveness if they do.


But now you're getting to specific sins. Like murder. But we are human and we sin daily. The smoker, the drinker, the person who curses or speeds or writes a bad check. God forgives us for our sins even when we don't ask on a daily basis or ask to be forgiven for a specific sin. I'd have to beg forgiveness continuously for my constant impure thoughts. ;)