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| Topic: Perfection and efficiency and humanity | |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 12/31/17 08:48 AM
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What makes the human experience purposeful?
I believe it is our human reality to be imperfect. Our imperfections and flaws give us things to work on over the years of our life to give us purpose, to give life meaning. What if we are moving towards a world where perfection and efficiency by means of automation and technology become the only goal? Cars will drive us, homes will do whatever we can command verbally, even jobs will be done by computers and/or automation. We will be able to clone and possibly live much longer lives, but how full will those lives really be? Those who stand to profit the most are all for an age where their profits boom because of the reduced labor costs of no longer paying human beings to do jobs that machines or computers may be able to and I feel that is where our culture, and maybe world culture, will be pushing soon enough. If we really do start to rely so completely on the 'perfection' and efficiency of machines and technology, how 'human' will our own life experience be? ANd if we start to give over control of so much of our lives to the alleged infallibility of some program or computer, how much more easily controlled and led will we become? I recently listened to a discussion between a couple of motivational speakers who were talking about the excitement coming from the age of technology, they mentioned all of these 'advances' and an idea that a 'universal' income would be paid to cover the changing work dynamics of a mostly computerized workforce. ONe of them actually boasted about a day when we would get healthcare and insist that no 'human' touch us, because we will be accustomed to and preferring the perfection of an 'artificial' doctor instead. Imagine that. We are already so detached from each other, do you think we will be better or worse by essentially detaching even more and replacing humans in most areas of our lives with machines instead? |
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Perfection? Purpose? Life's Meaning?
When I got disabled and could no longer work it changed my life. Luckily I worked long enough to have a fairly decent fixed income. At first, I struggled with my purpose and the meaning of life. What I found out is purpose and meaning of life is a delusion. It is a delusion that is established as soon as a person begins to reason and is reinforced all their lives. In such a world of full automation, people will face the same questions I was forced to face. What point is living if everything is done for you? Some of the things I discovered about my delusions of worth is that life is just life, the state of being alive. The only real purpose in life is to keep on living. Everything else is a desire based on delusion. Understanding this simple fact gives me inner peace and contentment. This realization allows me to choose the path of life that suits my conditions. At first, it was a difficult pill to swallow but it gets easier as time passes. Mankind is driven to innovation. Curiosity and imagination is a unique factor in how we perceive the world around us. We strive for efficiency. We imagine a way to persist with ease. Anyone that reads any amount of science fiction understands the concepts of perfected automation. The automation does not stagnate our lives it frees us from the tasks of survival and allows us the time to pursue other things. Example: You press a button or give a voice command and the food replicator materializes your meal, then after you eat it you place the remnants in the recycler and it removes it for you. The time that you would have spent cooking and cleaning for your meal is now free time that you can use doing other things. Humanity is still a very long way from perfection and complete automation. Even the things we have created that do the job for us can be improved upon for efficiency, space or energy requirements. Right now we can still choose to do things for ourselves. Consider what it would be like to live in a home without a kitchen. Just a box with a button in every room where you can get perfectly cooked food in seconds. Imagine having an injection when you are born that puts nanites into your body and they convert your waste to atoms and reassemble them to create the things you need to live. You no longer need to eat or go to the bathroom. Houses will be materialized and no longer have kitchens, bathrooms or life requirements because your body now provides everything itself with everything it needs. You are always in perfect health because the nanites maintain optimal operation on an atomic scale. Is it science fiction or a prediction? Might everything we invent and perfect be a desire for immortality? Right now we make better hammers but is our true inspiration a need for better hammers or a desire to never need a hammer again? If we invent teleportation, what is the point of having a car, roads, parking lots? For that matter, why would we need doors if we can just step on a plate and materialize at our destination? If the technology is perfect and all the kinks are ironed out, there will be no need for tools or repair people. The purpose of life is to exist. The goal of life is to be immortal (continue to exist). Everything we invent, everything we do is ultimately towards that goal. Free time inspires creativity. Here is something I wrote awhile ago while I was considering what might happen if nanotechnology advances as expected. Remember, this is a work of fiction, right now... The 'Side Effect'
Its been 3 generations since the medical nanites were made mandatory. People stopped dying. Even if someone were to be decapitated simply placing their head near their body initiated auto repair. Children still grew into adults but stopped aging at their physical prime. Below is some of the unexpected side effects of this wonderful technology. Bathrooms became obsolete. The nanites break down body waste into its atomic components and reuses the atoms to maintain the body. Houses and buildings started being built without toilet facilities and many older homes had theirs removed. Medical facilities became obsolete. Nobody ever got sick anymore. Injuries were healed or prevented by the nanites immediately. Schools and universities closed worldwide. Pharmaceutical companies closed down and there was no need for doctors, nurses or and support personnel. Funeral homes & cemeteries became obsolete. Since nobody was dying anymore, there was no need for burial facilities. Riskier lifestyles became the norm. Since nanites controlled the pain threshold and make instantaneous body repairs, people were able to perform death defying acts on a regular basis. Personal protection devices and methods became obsolete. Not only could someone walk into a burning building they could jump from an airplane without a chute and work in space without a suit. Volcanologists would drink a solution and the nanites formed a heat barrier around their bodies allowing them to stand in volcano magma. Reproduction became an lucrative business. For two people to reproduce, both had to have the nanites reprogrammed to allow their bodies to manufacture the sperm & eggs. Worldwide population growth slowed to a trickle. Children were born with their own nanites and pregnancy only lasted for 5 months. Regional reprogramming facilities sprang up and prospered from the costs. Explosion of arts. With longer life came an increase in artistic talent. From drawing to dancing, expressionism became the new drive in people's lives. Great display halls were built and the music recording business failed. Each region had an army of performers that toured to represent them. World domination switched from a power base to a talent base. It was a great honor to be chosen to represent your region and it became the most coveted job in the world. Explosion of technology. With the increased creativity there was also a technology explosion. Space and ocean based facilities sprang up at an incredible rate. The Moon and Mars were populated and a new base is being built on Titan supported by the Jupiter/Saturn Mining Corporation. A great space port was constructed at the equator in the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. Cities sprang up in Antarctica and on the North Pole. High speed magnetic transportation systems were built that allowed worldwide travel in hours. Personal farming became the standard. Since the nanites only needed raw materials and very little of those, there was no need for a large food supply. People started eating once per month. Kitchens were removed from homes. Restaurants and grocery stores became obsolete. The nanites in saliva allowed you to consume anything your body needed by just placing your mouth against it. Don't worry, human nanites have protection protocols so you can still kiss your honey. Wars became obsolete. Since bodies heal instantaneously war and assaults no longer had any affect. Nanites could morph your body to form a hard protective shell or separate your parts to avoid excessive damage. The world's military forces were disbanded. Weapons were recycled. Prisons became obsolete. Using the reprogramming industry, deviant behavior was reprogrammed. Brain damage was repaired and personality disorders were diagnosed and therapy became the new society measure. Huge institutions grew worldwide and each community had their own team of therapists. Religions became obsolete. Aside from the few that chose to keep their religions there was no longer a reason to believe in an afterlife. Churches closed and all the drama, fighting and racism related to the opposing views died shortly after. People became content with life and pursued active productive lifestyles in harmony. The world population is 9,864,799,331. There are 161,800 on the Moon and 78,064 on Mars. Another 50,270 in the outer reaches. We average 700 new souls per year and ZERO deaths. |
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What makes the human experience purposeful?
Nothing. The desire for a purpose, for meaning, stems from a need for social acceptance and security, social purpose, social value, the need to belong to a herd for safety and survival gratification (acquiring food, water, shelter, mate(s)). It's where capitalism stems from, a basic component of human psychology. In order to avoid being ostracized, you need to contribute something valuable to the group or at least another member. Social reciprocity. I believe it is our human reality to be imperfect.
Fallibility is kind of a byproduct of being finite. What if we are moving towards a world where perfection and efficiency by means of automation and technology become the only goal?
Then people will isolate themselves into cocoons where every need or want is immediately fulfilled by robot slaves, and we disappear into titillating and stimulating delusion with validating sexbots. how full will those lives really be?
As full as anyone else's by comparison. What universal absolute definition of "full" are you using for comparison. Those who stand to profit the most are all for an age where their profits boom because of the reduced labor costs of no longer paying human beings to do jobs that machines or computers may be able to and I feel that is where our culture, and maybe world culture, will be pushing soon enough.
What would be the point of profit if everything can be done by automation. Profit is based on disparity of skills and abilities and the risk/costs of exploiting the skills and abilities, exploiting inefficiencies until they are corrected. If human skill and abilities are pointless, if robots are efficient, there's no need to compensate human beings differently. Other than that, I don't know what timeline you are using. 10 years from now? 100? An Asimovian The Naked Sun utopia based on robots? how 'human' will our own life experience be?
However we wish to define it at the time. Society changes, values change, the definition of qualitative life changes. I mean country doctors used to deliver babys with downs syndrome, but sometimes take them into the backroom, kill them, and say it was "stillborn" or there were "complications," as a means of not interfering with the quality of life of a struggling farmer with 10 kids and no real means to pay the bill except in trade goods. Now, people exist in a coma, a persistent vegetative state, for years, without any expectation of recovery, kept alive simply by the sake of arbitrary legal decree. they mentioned all of these 'advances' and an idea
People have all sorts of ideas about a utopia. Remember Obama had the idea that costs would go down under Obamacare and people could keep their doctor and that it was budget neutral and not a tax, it wouldn't raise taxes? do you think we will be better or worse by essentially detaching even more
"Detachment" is only really a problem when there is a continuing need for "attachment." I mean if you raise a kid who never learns how to speak, it only matters when you thrust them into a world where they have to ask for what they want. "Better or worse" is just in comparison to something else, some ideal. Like an eye test. Better or worse, 3, or 5, but it's in comparison to 4. The only thing that really matters is you survive long enough to pass on your DNA, have babies, and they live long enough to do the same, and so on, the species continues. Everything else is you living in your own self created Matrix created by your unique bias, perspective, and interpretations, your avatar is your personality. And now scientists have created "artificial" sperm, ova, and uterus. Procreation at some point could easily be taken entirely out of human hands and decision making. Other than that, there's no reason not to believe robots won't be created to handle any "detachment" problems. i.e. sexbots, friendbots, puppybots. We are already so detached from each other,
Personally, I see it as polarizing and diffusing. Like parents overattaching to their kids, before kicking them out to go far away and be independent and come home at christmas. Or people who have little to no local group identity, instead shallowly "attaching" to global groups, like political or ideological groups, then holding those shallow "attachments" as more important and meaningful than they are. |
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This is a wonderfully thought provoking discussion. I am convinced that if a perfected automation is invented that can automate almost all living tasks, this is as far as it can ever get.
Artificial intelligence will never replace intelligence. But if we get automation over a long period will humans become lazy? May we become less fit to assert real intelligence when it is required? |
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This is a wonderfully thought provoking discussion. I am convinced that if a perfected automation is invented that can automate almost all living tasks, this is as far as it can ever get. Artificial intelligence will never replace intelligence. But if we get automation over a long period will humans become lazy? May we become less fit to assert real intelligence when it is required? that is my concern as well friend, relying on everything done by someone or something else leads to less of a capacity to do ourself. |
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This is a wonderfully thought provoking discussion. I am convinced that if a perfected automation is invented that can automate almost all living tasks, this is as far as it can ever get. Artificial intelligence will never replace intelligence. But if we get automation over a long period will humans become lazy? May we become less fit to assert real intelligence when it is required? that is my concern as well friend, relying on everything done by someone or something else leads to less of a capacity to do ourself. I understand what is being said and discussed about this but.... Do you harvest plants to make thread so you can make your clothes? Did you go chase a chicken, pluck and prep it and build a fire so you can eat dinner tonight? Did you walk to another city for anything? Are you cold in the winter if you don't go out and harvest wood then strike a flint to start a fire? Are you lazy now? or... Do you reap the benefits of technology and industry so you have more time to do other things? Do you know how to tan a hide? Can you find edible plants in your area in the winter? Can you catch, domesticate and use a horse to pull your homemade plow? Can you build nearly anything from scratch with the materials that are around you? The point I am making is that as technology and automation grows we change, adapt to it. We don't go lazy. We expand our abilities to new endeavors. |
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I do think Ms Harmony that to a slight extent it may be happening already.
Most of what we need to do is just run the mill stuff. And robotic atomation is superb to serve humans and make life easier in that sense. I think there is a parodox as well Ms.Harmony. There was a saying ' Necessity is the mother o invention.' But i think that s not true. Mostly i think t is laziness that can spawn inventive ideas! |
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This is a wonderfully thought provoking discussion. I am convinced that if a perfected automation is invented that can automate almost all living tasks, this is as far as it can ever get. Artificial intelligence will never replace intelligence. But if we get automation over a long period will humans become lazy? May we become less fit to assert real intelligence when it is required? that is my concern as well friend, relying on everything done by someone or something else leads to less of a capacity to do ourself. I understand what is being said and discussed about this but.... Do you harvest plants to make thread so you can make your clothes? Did you go chase a chicken, pluck and prep it and build a fire so you can eat dinner tonight? Did you walk to another city for anything? Are you cold in the winter if you don't go out and harvest wood then strike a flint to start a fire? Are you lazy now? or... Do you reap the benefits of technology and industry so you have more time to do other things? Do you know how to tan a hide? Can you find edible plants in your area in the winter? Can you catch, domesticate and use a horse to pull your homemade plow? Can you build nearly anything from scratch with the materials that are around you? The point I am making is that as technology and automation grows we change, adapt to it. We don't go lazy. We expand our abilities to new endeavors. I dont harvest and thread my clothes, but I do decide what to wash them with and how to wash them and put my own effort into maintaining, laundering, and pressing them I did not cook a chicken over a fire, but I do have to purchase it, choose the way to season and prepare it, cook it, serve it, and clean up after it I do not walk to other cities, but I have the CHOICE to take a bus, or to use my brain to get behind a wheel and follow rules of the road, and choose paths to take to get to my destination, and to choose when to leaven and when to return, to the second. SO no, I am far from lazy and yes, technology does make things easier and less time consuming, but to what end and how much is enough? When have we gone to making too many things too easy and when have we created more and more things that have little value because they are so easy? I understand the point about technology, but my concern is taking it too far just because we can and losing far more valuable human capacities and life value in the process. |
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whoever created the remote control for a tv.
They didnt really need it! But it made life easier!!! Does free time inspire innovation Tom. ? Usually if i get innovative it is in response to some problem im trying to solve? |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 12/31/17 01:44 PM
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whoever created the remote control for a tv. They didnt really need it! But it made life easier!!! Does free time inspire innovation Tom. ? Usually if i get innovative it is in response to some problem im trying to solve? Not only this. But I actually miss broadcast tv. I hardly EVER had an occasion where the service was interrupted. But cable gave us more crap choices, in my opinion, fed us more misinformation, and made more profits for more people. I miss the popularity of books and libraries, I never had that service interrupted or go slowly or the myriad of crap we just accept with the internet. And the sources were more easily determined to be 'reliable' too. I think most of the more modern innovation is about helping us be lazier, and easier controlled, which has been seen as making life 'better'. and though I use these things as a matter of availability and practicality, I wouldnt miss them if they had never existed. |
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This is a very ancient concern. It has been repeated many times through our very long history,and no doubt before we started writing things down.
When railroads were first being built, some people proclaimed that traveling at the unheard of speed of over twenty miles per hour would be fatal, because no one would be able to breath. When agriculture was invented and brought to some previously hunter-gatherer areas, some people objected that warriors could only prove their personal value by either fighting or hunting, and predicted that with the "easy" life of farming, that everyone would lose their place with god, accordingly. Some people today, suspect that that was the real hidden meaning behind the story of the Garden of Eden, that switching to agriculture would mean an end to pleasing God. I'm not personally concerned about it, because it's obvious to me, that we are a LOT further from being able to do away with all need for work, than the "wondrous" state of modern technology might make things appear. I am very concerned about how short the rest of my life is, but the whole "sense of purpose" idea is not large in my mind. It's been hard enough, and has taken me this long, just to understand most of how things work between people. I may still be struggling to make sense of it when my end time comes. Who knows? it could be that SOME people are opposed to equality itself, and to things like socialized medicine, entirely because they fear that without financial struggle, they will become unimportant themselves. |
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and yes, technology does make things easier and less time consuming, but to what end and how much is enough? When have we gone to making too many things too easy and when have we created more and more things that have little value because they are so easy?
Yes, I got that. Who sets the stopping point? Who determines if it is too much? My father was born in 1912. He had a disdain for cars. Never had a driver's license, never bothered to learn how to drive. To him it was 'meh, who needs them' but he didn't say they were too much, just not right for him. Imagine if innovation stopped, right now. Now, imagine innovation stopped in 1950. Those clothes you choose to wash are washed in a ringer washer if you're lucky. Your fingers get pinched in the roller and you have to carry your clothes to a clothes line to dry. I load my washer, set it and forget it. When its done, I move the wrung clothes to the dryer, set it and forget it. If technology ever creates self-cleaning clothes I will choose to buy and wear them because I will not have to wash them myself. Granted, some technology and innovations are not needed by me but someone needs them, wants them, buys them and uses them. Is it fair to them if I say enough is enough? You can't have that, its making you lazy. Does free time inspire innovation Tom. ?
Free time allows us to ponder innovation, experiment and build innovative things. Imagination inspires innovation. We imagine a better way and use our free time to try to make it so. Henry Ford installed the first moving assembly line for the mass production of an entire automobile. His innovation reduced the time it took to build a car from more than 12 hours to two hours and 30 minutes. The time saved allowed higher production numbers within a work period. Now there are robotics in the assembly line. Humans still need to feed the materials and inspect the accuracy of the functions, maintain the machines but not as many humans as before which frees up the labor force for other jobs. If all jobs are done by automation humans will be free to do other things. Granted the economic ramifications of automated workflow is dangerous to our employment but if we reach a tipping point, employment, work, production may no longer be the driving force of humanity. |
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I wouldnt want innovation to stop. I would just want people to reconsider the purpose of the innovation and its long term good or detriment.
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I understand but there is always going to be chaff with the grain.
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