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| Topic: Slavery | |
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Yes it's true, I agree with everyone..time for us to leave the past and move on. I am trying to learn as well and when I look in the history I still think think about it..it's impossible not too. There are so many things left unsaid... Reference to the scars... I don't have any myself based on the subject. It is a general where people can express their opinion and everything they remember on how it used to be like back in those days. I'm absolutely convinced slavery existence even today in so many countries...Take South Africa for example...India, Somalia, etc etc. And not only old slavery but modern slavery as well. My point is we are leaving in a modern world but yet a world full of scars. I think a historian can explain this so much better than me. at Lois and everyone else, thank you very much! I'm my heart I truly hope and I believe those people who fought to get back their freedom and become free again it is indeed an act of brevity, courage and respect. Thank you, Ms. Harmony, Lois, Greeneyes and Blondey. thank you for acknowledging that past can impact present |
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Yes it's true, I agree with everyone..time for us to leave the past and move on. I am trying to learn as well and when I look in the history I still think think about it..it's impossible not too. There are so many things left unsaid... Reference to the scars... I don't have any myself based on the subject. It is a general where people can express their opinion and everything they remember on how it used to be like back in those days. I'm absolutely convinced slavery existence even today in so many countries...Take South Africa for example...India, Somalia, etc etc. And not only old slavery but modern slavery as well. My point is we are leaving in a modern world but yet a world full of scars. I think a historian can explain this so much better than me. at Lois and everyone else, thank you very much! I'm my heart I truly hope and I believe those people who fought to get back their freedom and become free again it is indeed an act of brevity, courage and respect. Thank you, Ms. Harmony, Lois, Greeneyes and Blondey. thank you for acknowledging that past can impact present I agree but If I request a splint for my broken leg, instead of a bandaid, it has nothing to do with a grudge against the person who broke it,,, seeking progress and change is not the same as holding a grudge against anyone |
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But there should be no scars from something that happened to your ancestors and it has absolutely no bearing on current life. Actually I think it is the basis for discrimination, white supremacy, etc which are very much a continued part of current life. In addition, family history is held dear to many, as are old photographs of our ancestors. We keep photo albums and search genealogy because we want to know 'who we are'. If you are white, you probably dont have photographs of slaves. If you are black, you may. In fact you may be related to white plantation owners. The reasons for the latter are nothing short of ugly. human history leaves its imprint on all of us Its no secret that women in this country continue to make less than men for the same work. That stat is even worse if youre a Black, Latino, or Asian woman. I also have family history that does in fact have discrimination in it.. a lot of it actually. and my ancestors too were mistreated.. terribly. actually 1 million of my kind died.. in the Potato famine. And the Irish sure do know discrimination all of which is very well documented, all of which is part of the American history. As is other ethnic groups. And while my relatives have had it hard and my ancestors had it even harder. I never heard a word of that growing up. I knew what happened to " my kind.. my people" but as a family we never dwelled on that. And in the all Irish neighborhood that I grew up in, we never hear about it. Nobody ever dwelled on it. We just continued to better ourselves My point is this, many ethnic groups had it tough.. many.. but they overcame the hardships, the injustices and the outright wrongs and moved on. Improving their live, generation by generation. upward. And I am not saying the " world " is right.. there is a lot of work still to be done. But You remember where you come from...what you are. but that is not a driving factor in your life.. it is history.. something to gauge how far you have come. That happened to my history teacher who told our class in college. As recent as the 1960's. Traffic stops can turn fatal if you are black. Today. As for discrimination: Do your job interviewers see that youre a white male when you walk in? I dont think we're on the same page. We prolly wont ever be. Nothing I can say is new to you Im sure. Youre just not moved by any of it. Looks like a case of 'Ive got mine. Too bad about anybody else.' no.. where not going to agree. And no I'm not moved by it. Why.. because it is history.. stop living in it and you will go further.. and feel less bitter. Were the Irish even hung?.. actually they were.. try looking up the Molly Maguire's.. actually try looking up the Irish.. you may just get a education in discrimination.. its wasn't a black only thing.. ya know. Better yet, take a stroll thru the cemeteries in Louisiana.. take a look at the old headstones.. and all the Irish last names.. you know why?.. because back in the plantation days ( no us Irish folks didn't own any.. cause we were the scum of the earth back then) the Irish were put to work in the swamps before the slaves were... because it was thought the slaves were more valuable then a Irishman... so the Irish died of disease, snakebite or gator attacks.. all to support their families. I have no idea what the people I interview see.. and frankly could care less. I hire the best for the job. And btw.. scores in my company are black.. why.. not because of their color.. but because they are the best for that job... period. And do I have mine?.. yes I do.. and I got it the old fashioned way... I earned it No whining.. no crying foul..no silver spoon. went out there and earned it.. not really a novel approach.. but when all you do is complain.. and look in the past..it doesn't leave much time for positive things.. does it. Have a nice night ;) my friend dont forget that the past created the present. to understand to not to do the same mistakes over and over again we need to understand what really happened and not what was written that happened and that needs much more than just not forgetting. it must be analyzed again and again it must become visible and understandable for the crowds. iam not living in the past but i try to avoid stepping backwards as many societies nowadays do urged or even forced by the so called high developed and modern countries. to understand u cant just look at a phrase u must see the whole. see the world as a whole, see urself as part of the whole. how can we step forward when we have no background no fundamental structure, no consciousness of the evil side of mankind. just forgetting is too easy. we have to go on ofc, but with wisdom knowledge and consciousness not blindly as an easy target. My friend.. as far as I can see ( in America) the past is not being repeated. And I am sure there is slavery in other parts of the world, but there is none anymore in my part of the world. And hasn't been for 150 years. So, my point is this. At what age does the slavery topic go ( and stay) where it belongs.. in the history books. At what time do the 3-4 or 5 times removed people stop using it as a crutch. Is it 175 years, 200, 300?.. when As I stated, blacks were one of many ethic groups that had a tough time early in American history. For Christ sake, we hunted the American Indians down took their land then slaughtered them. Time to get over it. |
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Slavery in the US is one of a few issues which has, throughout my life, been debated very poorly. People have confused it, and folded concerns about it over and over again.
I am lucky in a way, about this. I was educated both as an Historian, and as a repair technician/specialist. That has allowed me to recognize the peculiar and frustrating dynamics of all the arguing about this. In my dealings with fixing machines, I know well that lots of people will put up a huge fuss, and give me incorrect descriptions of the problems they are having with their devices. But the fact that they make invalid complaints, doesn't mean that everything is okay, and that I should ignore their concerns, it just means that I have to find out what's ACTUALLY wrong, and deal with it. I see the same thing happen with issues like this, especially when politics or emotions get mixed in. There are people with legitimate concerns on both sides (it should really be "all sides," since there are lots of different motivations that end up being argued as though they are all about this) of this. There are people on all sides as well, who completely screwing up their own complaints and answers, often because they are reacting to the screwed up expressions from others. A few general observations: * it is no more legitimate to proclaim that because your ancestors "freed the slaves," that you can ignore modern concerns that linger from those ancient days, than it is to proclaim that you are deserving of special treatment now, because of what your ancestors went through. If you want to play the "past is past" card, it will apply just as much to YOU, as it will to your "opponents." * it's always tempting to over-simplify big problems, and turn them into self-righteousness duels, because it's much easier to delude yourself that you are dealing with them that way. But if you go that route, it will make the problems worse every time, not better. And you will end up being the only person patting you on the back when the dust settles, and that's just a tad on the awkward and pitiful side of things. |
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Are we really freeeeeeeee? when u need to ask then u r not hhh me neither if that makes u happy and i think some few ppl are really free, despite nothing is absolute |
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I'm tired of hearing about the silly crap.. Black people were making slaves of each other way before white people thought of it.. No one in my family was rich enough to own slaves, so I carry no guilt... how often do you 'hear' about it really? there has been some form of slavery on every continent throughout history,, but as it pertains to THIS continent,, it was primarily a race based hierarchy,,,,, families separated AGAINST THEIR WILL, stripped of the right to share knowledge of their ancestry, stripped of their very names, born into the status of mere property,, BORN INTO IT ,denied the opportunity to be educated, families separated AGAINST THEIR WILL,,,, that recurring hierarcy, being passed down the culture in its values and standards generation after generation for nearly 365 years(slavery 246 years, and segregation/jim crow for another 100) out of a period of 398 years (1619-2017)sets a pretty deep FOUNDATION of racial hierarchy in the US culture something that's been there 365 years, will not be even close to being corrected in only 50 years,, especially when so many believed that all work was done in only a decade (60s and 70s) it is never about white vs black, because there were whites and blacks who fought to end it,,,,,,,,its about systemic racism and oppression against blacks,,,,,so no one is asking any white person to feel 'guilt' its just necessary for people, of all races, to feel 'aknowledgment' for what happened and feel 'responsible' for making sure the disparate impact is not continually reinforced,, well said |
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Edited by
rawand_
on
Mon 02/20/17 07:47 AM
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But there should be no scars from something that happened to your ancestors and it has absolutely no bearing on current life. Actually I think it is the basis for discrimination, white supremacy, etc which are very much a continued part of current life. In addition, family history is held dear to many, as are old photographs of our ancestors. We keep photo albums and search genealogy because we want to know 'who we are'. If you are white, you probably dont have photographs of slaves. If you are black, you may. In fact you may be related to white plantation owners. The reasons for the latter are nothing short of ugly. human history leaves its imprint on all of us Its no secret that women in this country continue to make less than men for the same work. That stat is even worse if youre a Black, Latino, or Asian woman. I also have family history that does in fact have discrimination in it.. a lot of it actually. and my ancestors too were mistreated.. terribly. actually 1 million of my kind died.. in the Potato famine. And the Irish sure do know discrimination all of which is very well documented, all of which is part of the American history. As is other ethnic groups. And while my relatives have had it hard and my ancestors had it even harder. I never heard a word of that growing up. I knew what happened to " my kind.. my people" but as a family we never dwelled on that. And in the all Irish neighborhood that I grew up in, we never hear about it. Nobody ever dwelled on it. We just continued to better ourselves My point is this, many ethnic groups had it tough.. many.. but they overcame the hardships, the injustices and the outright wrongs and moved on. Improving their live, generation by generation. upward. And I am not saying the " world " is right.. there is a lot of work still to be done. But You remember where you come from...what you are. but that is not a driving factor in your life.. it is history.. something to gauge how far you have come. That happened to my history teacher who told our class in college. As recent as the 1960's. Traffic stops can turn fatal if you are black. Today. As for discrimination: Do your job interviewers see that youre a white male when you walk in? I dont think we're on the same page. We prolly wont ever be. Nothing I can say is new to you Im sure. Youre just not moved by any of it. Looks like a case of 'Ive got mine. Too bad about anybody else.' no.. where not going to agree. And no I'm not moved by it. Why.. because it is history.. stop living in it and you will go further.. and feel less bitter. Were the Irish even hung?.. actually they were.. try looking up the Molly Maguire's.. actually try looking up the Irish.. you may just get a education in discrimination.. its wasn't a black only thing.. ya know. Better yet, take a stroll thru the cemeteries in Louisiana.. take a look at the old headstones.. and all the Irish last names.. you know why?.. because back in the plantation days ( no us Irish folks didn't own any.. cause we were the scum of the earth back then) the Irish were put to work in the swamps before the slaves were... because it was thought the slaves were more valuable then a Irishman... so the Irish died of disease, snakebite or gator attacks.. all to support their families. I have no idea what the people I interview see.. and frankly could care less. I hire the best for the job. And btw.. scores in my company are black.. why.. not because of their color.. but because they are the best for that job... period. And do I have mine?.. yes I do.. and I got it the old fashioned way... I earned it No whining.. no crying foul..no silver spoon. went out there and earned it.. not really a novel approach.. but when all you do is complain.. and look in the past..it doesn't leave much time for positive things.. does it. Have a nice night ;) my friend dont forget that the past created the present. to understand to not to do the same mistakes over and over again we need to understand what really happened and not what was written that happened and that needs much more than just not forgetting. it must be analyzed again and again it must become visible and understandable for the crowds. iam not living in the past but i try to avoid stepping backwards as many societies nowadays do urged or even forced by the so called high developed and modern countries. to understand u cant just look at a phrase u must see the whole. see the world as a whole, see urself as part of the whole. how can we step forward when we have no background no fundamental structure, no consciousness of the evil side of mankind. just forgetting is too easy. we have to go on ofc, but with wisdom knowledge and consciousness not blindly as an easy target. My friend.. as far as I can see ( in America) the past is not being repeated. And I am sure there is slavery in other parts of the world, but there is none anymore in my part of the world. And hasn't been for 150 years. So, my point is this. At what age does the slavery topic go ( and stay) where it belongs.. in the history books. At what time do the 3-4 or 5 times removed people stop using it as a crutch. Is it 175 years, 200, 300?.. when As I stated, blacks were one of many ethic groups that had a tough time early in American history. For Christ sake, we hunted the American Indians down took their land then slaughtered them. Time to get over it. sry but i think we cant become friends. u r the poorest kind of slaves who doesnt know he is a slave. when they made u believe it is ok to forget and to leave it to the historians then u r an alpha slave in their system. the powers changes the methods changes the era changes but oppression is constant especially in oh so free america. i dont mean to offend u i want u to wake up |
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at Tom,,, I agree..another different way to look at it. We are slaves of the government, that is true. Government is not the only slavery we deal with. What about money and greed? What happens if you just stop working? Can you just get up and leave anytime? What if you don't pay your electric bill? There is also a lot of slavery in relationships anymore. If you don't fix dinner, who will? If you don't wash your clothes, who will? If you don't take care of your BF/GF/Lover/Spouse who will? People tend to think that slavery is bigotry and hatred but it is everywhere and people accept it without much thought. You are a slave to your consious. Slave to society. Slave to marketers and commercials and slaves to the media. Most people have no idea they are being manipulated by others. Set to a path that they would not normally choose. So, yeah, go ahead and concentrate on color or gender or nationality. Meanwhile the real masters are getting you to do what they want to keep them in power and increase their wealth. |
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Are we really freeeeeeeee? when u need to ask then u r not hhh me neither if that makes u happy Membership card to be in the system (social security card) u allow me entrance into ur club of the caged, is that right? |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Mon 02/20/17 09:45 AM
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Remember the impact. Existence.. History.. How do you feel today? How deep are the scars? slavery was only part of it it was like a broken leg,,,left untreated, that became in infection called jim crow and segregation,,,,(infections make it hard to get over or forget that you broke the leg),,,,, it (the infection of jim crow and segregation) impacted many people in my family who are still alive, I respect and admire their strength and wisdom and I am sure there are many who would rather have kept America under segregation and Jim crow with relatives who respect and admire them too the institutions of slavery , jim crow, and segregation, existed because of a mindset of superiority and what people do or don't 'deserve', and by the ability to dehumanize others, which I still see lingering ,,, and which troubles me the same as it did my elders and ancestors,,, |
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Edited by
Blizi
on
Mon 02/20/17 09:56 AM
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Hi lu .. Why don't you tell us how you feel .. I have never known slavery .. I have no scars . We are living in modern times .. Perhaps in third world countries there is still an element of slavery .. I don't know .. Perhaps you can enlighten me :-)  I am from a third world country. Never known it either. |
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Many have heard without necessarily experiencing things. Blacks, Irish, Jews....many others. Many have experinced things (such rape, murders, etc). As said in another topic, people are resilient. Black aren't the only ones experiencing things days. Many experience things based on race, religion, countries, gender, etc. It isn't one race suffering
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Mon 02/20/17 10:08 AM
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that is true yellow
cops suffer, and we have had topics specific to their suffering gun owners suffer, and we have had topics specific to their suffering legal citizens feel like they 'suffer' from illegal immigration and we have that specific topic introduced in the forums multiple times I do not believe any argument was made that suffering only exists for on person or group I believe someone introduced a topic about the SPECIFIC form of suffering called slavery,,, |
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Topics evolve and even warp.
I am speaking from personal experience: I have heard people saying how much their people suffered. I look at them and say did I own you? Did my family (we came over Amish Dutch)? Were you around (we weren't born in the 60s)? Was I around to have a say? All of these would be NO. But I have even been told that they didn't expect me to be so friendly. I adked why. The answer.....because I am white. These people have good jobs, no legal trouble and never experienced anything. The topic is about slavery. Blacks weren't the only slaves so what I have said about Irish, Jews and any others....applies |
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I am curious why one would take it personally (by asking if THey personally owned slaves) just because someone else acknowledges slavery descendants or their struggles. That's like listening to a rape survivor and responding "Was I the one who raped you?" I mean if they accuse you 'your people owned my people' that's one thing, because not all whites had slaves. It seems however sort of odd projection for one to jump to personal defensiveness when no one personally accuses THEM of anything. That being said, I was born in the 60s and raised by parents who were born well before the 60's. The laws far from made an instant change in treatment and attitude. The topic is about slavery, and blacks were not the only slaves(in world history), but as a black person, MY connection to slavery(in AMerican history) is obviously going to be more specific to blacks and slavery. I would love to read the perceptions of Irish, Jews, or any other people regarding whatever forms of SLAVERY are in their heritage too. I am saying what I have experienced. Many seem to think that all whites were pro-slavery or ownes slaves. I am coming from the other side of it. My people were Irish (scum of the Earth) and Dutch (didn't believe in slavery) This topic was brought to modern day (instead of strictly slavery). But racist come from all races. Yes, I have experienced racism myself. Slavery was a long time ago. Time to heal. It isn't one sided and many races have suffered....not just blacks. Why assume just black slaves? |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Mon 02/20/17 10:55 AM
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I am curious why one would take it personally (by asking if THey personally owned slaves) just because someone else acknowledges slavery descendants or their struggles.
That's like listening to a rape survivor and responding "Was I the one who raped you?" I mean if they accuse you 'your people owned my people' that's one thing, because not all whites had slaves. It seems however sort of odd projection for one to jump to personal defensiveness when no one personally accuses THEM of anything. That being said, I was born in the 60s and raised by parents who were born well before the 60's. The laws far from made an instant change in treatment and attitude. The topic is about slavery, and blacks were not the only slaves(in world history), but as a black person, MY connection to slavery(in AMerican history) is obviously going to be more specific to blacks and slavery. I would love to read the perceptions of Irish, Jews, or any other people regarding whatever forms of SLAVERY are in their heritage too. |
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I am curious why one would take it personally (by asking if THey personally owned slaves) just because someone else acknowledges slavery descendants or their struggles. That's like listening to a rape survivor and responding "Was I the one who raped you?" I mean if they accuse you 'your people owned my people' that's one thing, because not all whites had slaves. It seems however sort of odd projection for one to jump to personal defensiveness when no one personally accuses THEM of anything. That being said, I was born in the 60s and raised by parents who were born well before the 60's. The laws far from made an instant change in treatment and attitude. The topic is about slavery, and blacks were not the only slaves(in world history), but as a black person, MY connection to slavery(in AMerican history) is obviously going to be more specific to blacks and slavery. I would love to read the perceptions of Irish, Jews, or any other people regarding whatever forms of SLAVERY are in their heritage too. I am saying what I have experienced. Many seem to think that all whites were pro-slavery or ownes slaves. I am coming from the other side of it. My people were Irish (scum of the Earth) and Dutch (didn't believe in slavery) This topic was brought to modern day (instead of strictly slavery). But racist come from all races. Yes, I have experienced racism myself. Slavery was a long time ago. Time to heal. It isn't one sided and many races have suffered....not just blacks. Why assume just black slaves? sure many races. the apartheid regime that enslaved south africa were dutch .slavery is not past.it has only changed methods. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Mon 02/20/17 11:15 AM
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Noone is assuming
I am a Black Woman, when the question is asked about SLAVERY , the slavery that is relevant to my history/experience is AMERICAN SLAVERY of blacks. IF this were a discussion board with predominately people from AFRICA, maybe the Slavery would be more specific to that continent and we would hear about egyptians. as to your experience, it is as much a shame when people place guilt in the white vs black context as it is when people tell descendants of slaves to 'get over it' |
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Edited by
yellowrose10
on
Mon 02/20/17 11:17 AM
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I am curious why one would take it personally (by asking if THey personally owned slaves) just because someone else acknowledges slavery descendants or their struggles. That's like listening to a rape survivor and responding "Was I the one who raped you?" I mean if they accuse you 'your people owned my people' that's one thing, because not all whites had slaves. It seems however sort of odd projection for one to jump to personal defensiveness when no one personally accuses THEM of anything. That being said, I was born in the 60s and raised by parents who were born well before the 60's. The laws far from made an instant change in treatment and attitude. The topic is about slavery, and blacks were not the only slaves(in world history), but as a black person, MY connection to slavery(in AMerican history) is obviously going to be more specific to blacks and slavery. I would love to read the perceptions of Irish, Jews, or any other people regarding whatever forms of SLAVERY are in their heritage too. I am saying what I have experienced. Many seem to think that all whites were pro-slavery or ownes slaves. I am coming from the other side of it. My people were Irish (scum of the Earth) and Dutch (didn't believe in slavery) This topic was brought to modern day (instead of strictly slavery). But racist come from all races. Yes, I have experienced racism myself. Slavery was a long time ago. Time to heal. It isn't one sided and many races have suffered....not just blacks. Why assume just black slaves? sure many races. the apartheid regime that enslaved south africa were dutch .slavery is not past.it has only changed methods. Yes slavery happened with many and against many. Think about the Jewish people. It isn't one sided. I have never owned a slave and very against it. Women have been slaves for a long time and didn't have rights and were discriminated against by society and religion. |
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I am curious why one would take it personally (by asking if THey personally owned slaves) just because someone else acknowledges slavery descendants or their struggles. That's like listening to a rape survivor and responding "Was I the one who raped you?" I mean if they accuse you 'your people owned my people' that's one thing, because not all whites had slaves. It seems however sort of odd projection for one to jump to personal defensiveness when no one personally accuses THEM of anything. That being said, I was born in the 60s and raised by parents who were born well before the 60's. The laws far from made an instant change in treatment and attitude. The topic is about slavery, and blacks were not the only slaves(in world history), but as a black person, MY connection to slavery(in AMerican history) is obviously going to be more specific to blacks and slavery. I would love to read the perceptions of Irish, Jews, or any other people regarding whatever forms of SLAVERY are in their heritage too. I am saying what I have experienced. Many seem to think that all whites were pro-slavery or ownes slaves. I am coming from the other side of it. My people were Irish (scum of the Earth) and Dutch (didn't believe in slavery) This topic was brought to modern day (instead of strictly slavery). But racist come from all races. Yes, I have experienced racism myself. Slavery was a long time ago. Time to heal. It isn't one sided and many races have suffered....not just blacks. Why assume just black slaves? sure many races. the apartheid regime that enslaved south africa were dutch .slavery is not past.it has only changed methods. Let me ask you...you were brought up Muslim and in a Muslim country. Moved to Odessa, Ukraine and you see no problem? |
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