I have a friend that I have known for several years. We met online and had a date at first. It became more of a friendship than anything else over time.

About a month ago we agreed to meet again for the first time in years. And explore the possibility of moving beyond friendship. So I picked her up and we spent the day together. I wanted to make it special for her so I packed a picnic. Drove to some mountain trails. Spent the day outdoors. Later, I cooked her a steak dinner. After that I ran her a hot bath because she said she loved bubble baths. We then slept together (no sex) because I really wanted to get to know her again. When she left in the morning I gave her a tap on the mouth and she was off. I did not hear from her for days.

As a matter of fact, she stood me up the following weekend. When we did finally talk, she admitted to me that I was a perfect gentleman. The picnic. The dinner. The bath. She had the greatest time. Nobody ever treated her with that kind of respect. Nobody had ever done that for her before...and she could not handle it.

For all the talk I hear on this forum from women, wanting "A real man"...."No games"..."No drama", etc. It is my guess that most women today could not handle a situation like this as well. Keep in mind, this was not our first meeting. We were friends for almost eight years. The friendship was well established.

After explaining herself, she wanted to see me again but I declined. Not because I faulted her for having issues, we all do. But for not calling me sooner and talking to me. Being open and honest with a little urgency. Like real friends who care do.

well I don't know her past but I would say we are all a little broken in our own way..

though it was rude of her not to let you know what was going thru her head

Well, wait a minute, lets not get ahead of ourselves here.


yeah, a lot of us, certainly including me, have things we've been through which have left emotional scars, or led to our being wary of fully opening up to others in certain ways.

But your description of this particular situation is a bit different from the usual, and I think that needs to be examined a bit.

This is someone who you say that you HAVEN'T SEEN FOR YEARS.

Yet you treated her through out this very long "first meet in years," as though you were a long standing married couple who were having a vacation day together.

Most "first meets" of old friends do NOT include picnics in the wilds, followed by home cooked meals, bathing them, and then sleeping together with or without sex. All that would constitute over-the-top, potentially frightening behavior. At least disconcerting, since the behavior does NOT match the idea of "old online friends getting together after years elsewhere."

In short, I think that she has a lot more to ponder than whether or not you are "more of a gentleman than she's dealt with before."

I'd love to have a relationship with a woman where we acted exactly like that, on occasion, too.

However, if a long time friend went in ONE meet, directly from "hey how have things been for you for the last few years we've been apart," to "let me feed you in the middle of nowhere, run you ragged on a hike, take you home and feed you again, then BATHE you and bed you down while I nuzzle with you," I can tell you I would be VERY nervous.

If it were our first meeting I would agree. That woud spook anybody. But it was not and according to her own words, it was perfect. It was not me.

So you decided not to continue .. not my business of course, but I wouldn't throw it away .. it's still eight years of very special relationship for both of you.

Somehow it's a bit familiar situation. I had a LDR once when I was younger. No computers or smartphones these days. Real letters only. So we traded massages mostly, sometimes every day, met rarely, and when everything got to that point when she had to make a decision .. she said "sorry .. I can't". See .. she began to love those letters more than myself as a real person. She created an inner image to love, sort of fiction, which finally didn't fit with the reality.
So I lost her. But still recall.

So think again .. to destroy something takes a blink of an eye, but try to build up everything from scratch again ..

Yeah, you expected her to act your way, but ey, she's a girl, emotional and confused. Perhaps felt guilty .. didn't want to upset you

Well, whatever it was I think that this girl deserves a second chance, but it's up to you of course.

Actually, I was not expecting anything. I was enjoying myself and her company. It was a good day. And we will remain friends.

I wish you luck!

Well, Manchuro, if a man showed up after 8 years of friendship
and did what you did on the date, I would be scared chitless.

Seriously.
The reason is, it begets instant fear of increased expectations
in a very short period of time.

If you like her enough I might suggest a small strategy.
Wait until she contacts YOU next and instantly fall back into
her comfort zone..let her set the tone.

Once comfortable you guys can perhaps get together at HER pace.

The chances of two people feeling EXACTLY the same at any
given point in life are infinitesimally small.

When it happens though, tis magic.
Good luck on this project :-)

I wasn't intending to chastise you, or accuse you of anything. Just pointing out, as soulfie did a better job of, why it is that your conclusion that your friend is "broken" is the most likely and accurate one to draw, based on her cautious later actions.

I wish you the best as well.

I've had crushes on people, and hopes which were unrealistic as a result, and made mistakes in the same vein. What you need to NOT do, is compound the "rushing things" mistake, by attaching a "broken person" fantasy to her as well.

What you want, is as much REALITY as possible between you, not more high-sounding romantic notions, which might just confuse things more.

I'm sorry that you went through this. There's just way too much chit happening to people these days. Everyone has their own experiences which make them who they are...unfortunate for lots. I personally would have declined as well...it sounds like it could be a lot more drama involved if you continued. Take care

I do agree that perhaps your well meaning gestures were a little intense for a reunion date, which may have made her feel a little pressured.

But I also think that if a woman felt enough sparks towards a long time friend, that gestures like the ones you rendered , had the potential to totally wow her and win her over.

More often than not, in friendships , where romance is being explored, one person is NOT feeling romantic chemistry with the other person, to the level that the other person is feeling it. It makes for a very awkward dynamic.

Because many people have a hard just coming out and telling the friend that they feel no sparks with them, especially when the person has been nothing but kind and charming, many come up with polite smokescreen excuses. Tell me if any of these sound familiar.

"I'm sorry. It's not you. It's ME."

I'm just not ready for a commitment right now.

"Right now my mother, kid/ dog/ pet rock NEED me "

OR

Sometimes they seek out minor slip-ups by the friend to justify rejecting them.

Your friend was wrong for standing you up, and sadly, many people choose that cowardly and disrespectful route when they dont want to confess a lack of sparks.

Moving forward, we all have to stop assuming that all people will want us just because we are NICE to them.

Chemistry simply has no rhyme , reason or mercy sometimes.

Ps: Manchuro...

You may want to consider keeping things light and fun on future first dates , or maybe even asking the lady if she has preferences in terms of date venues and activities.

Most likely you will sense progressively throughout the date if it is going well enough to suggest a spontaneous romantic drive later on or one of the other sweet gestures you extended with your friend.

Really sorry you went through that awkward situation by the way.

Your friend could have handled things a lot better.

A simple courtesy call from her would have been polite

"Being open and honest with a little urgency. Like real friends who care do."

Once sex or romance enters the relationship, you are no longer friends. .
Now. You are just another guy & she is just another woman.

Where's the " Broken Men " thread at?

Now that would be a popcorn special. Men would be cray cray

.

I think it is nice that you went to all this trouble for basically a first date yes, You had a meet and greet. Then continued to carry on with the friendship. So this meet up was a "real First date"

While I do understand the why you were a bit hurt over her reaction. And yet I have to be perfectly honest...
This would have been so intense and over the top for me overwhelming doesn't even come close.
I do have to wonder did you two talk about the "date" and the activities? Did she have any imput. So many variables out there.

And if there was no easy way to slow it down or end it which it doesn't sound like it I would have been thank you so much. etc...

If I cared about you I would have left the door open. I actually feel fault lies on both sides. And on neither if that makes sense.

Hers for not cutting and running when it was overwhelming if she was able. Should she have called and told you I need time..

Yes of course and yet from the intensity of your thoughts here I most likely would have sent an email telling you I need some time thank you so much for your lovely day.

Your for such intensity..

Both because somewhere neither of you were talking openly and honestly and listening to the other with the same intent.


Me personally I have two speeds slow and stop.. Doesn't matter if I have been friends with you for decades that is just the way it is. Does it make me broken nope makes me smart and wise to not endanger your heart or mine.

I also don't see her as Broken I see her as overwhelmed and not sure how to handle it and needed time.

I hope you are big enough not to throw away a 8 year friendship..

Are rare. Usually either extremely violent, crazy, or manic depressed.

Most of the time when a guy calls a woman "broken" what it usually translates into is: "I have my preconceived notions of what a woman is and wants. And if they don't live up to those ideas, then it's their fault, there's something wrong with them. They're broken. It's not that I don't listen, it's that they don't know how to communicate in ways I easily understand."

e.g. "I hear on this forum from women, wanting 'A real man'....'No games'...'No drama', etc."
All women have their subjective ideas on what each of those mean.
Part of the "learning to communicate" process is listening and conceptualizing the other person as an individual based on figuring out what they mean by these things.

Which is a huge problem with the whole concept of "friends first" or "friends evolving into more."

"Friends" is a subjective relationship you develop.
In developing "friendship" you develop a level of communication, a type of communication, specific to the relationship (and it includes boundaries and expectations).

When you want to "evolve" the friendship? You have to "evolve" communication.
But most people think "well, we already established communication! We've been friends for YEARS!"

Relationship communication and friend communication are two different things.
No different than Spanish and Japanese.

One simply doesn't directly translate into the other because you feel you want it to.

And when you spend years speaking English, not having spoken Spanish at all? And then try to translate it into Japanese?
Which is basically what the OP tried to do?

All you get is a lot of shouting, pointing, and arm waving (obvious, believed to be universal, gestures) to make the most simplistic of communication understood.

Which is ultimately what the grand gesture date was.

The grand gesture date can be seen in 2 ways.
1. "My princess and I had a little picnic and played outside all day. Then I took her home, made her dinner, gave her a bath, and put her to bed."
2. "I didn't listen to who she is. She is a woman. Women like romantic things. I'm going to do what I think she should feel is romantic because I want her to see me as a romantic partner."


Friends don't draw bubble baths for each other.
Friends don't cuddle all night and think it's important they didn't have sex.
Friends don't try to be more than friends, instead focusing on protecting the relationship rather than attacking it in order to change it.


I see.
So you said "For all the talk I hear on this forum from women, wanting 'A real man'....'No games'...'No drama', etc."
Implying that women say one thing, but don't really mean it.

But when a woman says "it was perfect" about something you did, even though she stands you up and felt all weird...well then that's absolute god's truth coming from her mouth?

Okay.
Good luck with that.

Honestly.....you went way overboard with the picnic, and bubble bath and all. All that stuff in one day would freak me out too. I bet she felt you were gonna want a commitment right then, or you might even propose to her. Just my thoughts but to me you have to take steps when wooing a woman.

When so many think that this was over the top...it really goes to show that chivalry is truly dead. What was once expected...is now rejected. Too bad....

Chivalry most likely is not possible in an equal society

It would be refreshing to me ...for a nice change