a lot of us have being down this road! ..some more than once...
I have a friend that is facing what so many of us have faced in the past..

How do you know when it is finally time to call it.. quits.?.. put an end to your relationship your marriage..?.

.. for some, it is cut and dry ..there are obvious big red flags.. drugs, alcohol abuse ..violence..( physical and emotional.).... but for others.. particularly my friend.. in question..
There are no big red flags.. just a series of little ones from what he,says ,there always has being now that he looks back on it.... he is doing the flip flopping game ..one foot out of the door and then pulling it back in the door.... he says he's unhappy... he says he's not sure if he's truly in love.. or ever was in love... he says she has issues.. he doesn't know if she can fix them or not!.. they are fundamental issues.. core issues.. things about her personality.... he does not believe these things about her' can be worked on... he says if it was just the mechanics of the relationship that would be fixable.... but this is more of a question of them actually.. being truly compatible... he says he does not think they ever were.... but it was comfortable ,and easy, to be together....now!!
.. they have a young daughter.. together.
. When he sits down and truly starts to be honest about himself and the relationship.. this is when it becomes confusing for him.. yes they have both made mistakes in the past.. and form what I know of him! ...I know he has made some huge mimistakes.. but I also know she has as well,.. they both have!.. and I am sure they will play the blame game, like we all did..ok!!!! .. not all of us.. .... one minute ,he is ready to leave the next minute' he is telling me! ..maybe if I work harder on myself! maybe if I change my behavior things will be better.. and then perhaps she will change her behavior...?. I tell him yes it takes work both parties need to change the bad behavior... but then he ,always comes back to this one underlying point.... the fact that he feels they are just not meant to be together.. that he does not get from her ,what he thinks he truly needs.. to be in a long-term forever relationship

. Tenderness ,carrying .passion nurturing.. communication..
. Honesty.. the real ability to connect with each other deeply..

.. one minute he says what he thinks he needs from her to be in the relationship,( and then he says but!!.. I do not know if this is enough, to end things for.. do I have a right to be happy that is truly happy.. he says.. he is fairly happy in the relationship.. but he always feels as though there is something truly missing...he cannot put his finger on it, but he just knows deep down that there is something truly missing.. something's wrong..
. he feels it is just his problem! change himself.. and everything will be better... but he says if it was not for the child they have he would have left already...hmmm..

I tell him.. you're scared, you're comfortable... you do not want to damage your relationship with your.. child you do not want to feel like you are abandoning her! your child.. you do not want to throw everything away you have built up together..You have financial concerns as well . you think it is all you! fix you and the relationship will be fixed... even though you have told me. That when you were on your own before the marriage you did not feel like you had any personal problems.. you were happy with who you were basically....
I told him and suggested perhaps a trial separation some time apart see if you are really who you think you are on your own.. fix the things about yourself that you think need fixing see if you are truly capable of doing this.. on your own.. take responsibility for you..
Have her do the same while you are out of the house.. then come back together and see.. if you still want to be together .. if you were both able to change fix .. grow as people yourselves ..are if you are better off apart.. perhaps when you are apart you will each discover you really were not right for each other... that you actually do better without each other you are happier alone

..soooo... was your !divorce separation was it it cut and dry for you..?
Did you come to the decision easily..?
Did you know it was clearly time ,to end things..?.. did you seek out counseling and did it help..?
. How did you come to your decision?.
Was it hard or easy to make the decision.. to end the relationship..




.

It is always hard, for me anyway.

First time, I got the feeling "this is not fulfilling anymore" about 6-9 months before breaking up. Scared the bejesus out of me. Tried to ignore it, but once that feeling is there, it doesn't completely go away anymore.
When I accepted it was unavoidable, it took me approx 2 weeks to decide. Feeling guilty (kids), thinking of the implications (selling house, moving house etc.). But there was no way back no more.
I can tell you, those 2 weeks were hell! Utter hell! Don't wish that upon anyone... like being drawn and quartered some 10 times over.

But, once I've made up my mind, it's final. Nothing and no one can change that anymore. And I do mean nothing and no one.
He tried to get me back a few times. Only has the opposite effect. Like banging into a solid brick wall.
Reason for that is easy: I am extremely loyal, don't give up easily. So when I DO give up, he's had a gazillion chances to better himself. If he blew it, tough chit.


Second time took me some 6 years to be able to let go. I tried to hang on against my better judgement.
But again, once I'd made my decision, it was final. No way back.

Man, I didn't know how to tell him.
Got an apartment, furnished it, was ready to go,
but still had not told him.

He said, 'Where's the extra bleach?' which I had
taken for the new place and that is when I finally
spit it out that I was going...hardest thing I
ever did in my life..after 27 years of marriage.

I still shudder.

The last year of my marriage was a blur. I can't remember much of it. It was a built up of a lot of things. Before that I do remember feeling that we have grown apart. The more educated I got the more he hated it because he couldn't control me. He would spread lies behind my back. He loved attention so he would tell lies. He did this through out our marriage. When he turned 40 it was like he flipped his lid and became someone different. Hey I could have handled if he brought a car or maybe had an affair but instead he went like his mum. I told him to take a pill if he need it for his mind. He was like all scheming and started making hot drinks. You may think this is ok but he never made them before nor would he drink them. It was not long after that I had chest pains and he wouldn't call for help. He smiled and said no you do it laughing. To me that is one sicko. The Ambulance came he is still laughing and acting like a kids thrilled to see the ambulance. After seeing me in the hospital all wired up and admitted he tells people I'm acting for attention. Wow four jabs of morphine and a series of tests that reveals deep concern to the doctors is a major thing. I was in hospital for a week. During this time I sort a councillor thinking my mind was screwed. The result from that was there's nothing wrong with me.
During my stay I did a lot of reflecting. I couldn't take it anymore. The mind games, control and manipulation. Life of death was my choice. I did what I did for my kids.
We did marriage counciling and courses. He didn't want it in his eyes it was me. I told him it was both of us. We are both to blame for this mess.
After two years of separation he filed for the divorce.
The rest is history. During the last at years I have been discovering who I am as a person. I felt I needed to do that so if any male came into my life I was a clean slate and had no hang up. I thought I was ready a year ago but I guess I love being single and having the freedom to be who I am and to do what I want.
Yes I know it seems selfish but I just want to have some me time.
When or if the right guy comes then I will be ready to be swept off my feet. Until then there is a huge world waiting to be explored.

You don't "know" even if you convince yourself you do.

You just feel pressure to make a decision one way or the other.

What you truly want you will always be pushed to work towards subconsciously.

People either try to ignore the pressure in order to avoid having to take on the responsibility of making a decision, hoping stress and problems or events will come to a point where the decision becomes obvious, or made for them, absolving them (on some level) of being responsible for the decision, or they simply act on intuition and then look to justify and validate and prove the decision to be correct.

No different than any other decision a person makes.



Only to people that aren't all that bonded to the other person.

I mean substance, physical, mental, emotional abuse aren't all that cut and dry except to 3rd person observers outside the relationship.
People try to help the other person seek help, or change to accept, try to save the relationship. It may be "cut and dry" in hindsight, but at the time it's not.


People can only give you 1 of 2 answers.
1. By falsely putting their current selves into objective observer positions.
2. By offering subjective answers that will have absolutely no bearing or relevance to any other situation.

These would be more informative than any answer you could get on a dating site forum:
http://www.brainfacts.org/sensing-thinking-behaving/awareness-and-attention/articles/2009/decision-making/
http://healthland.time.com/2012/09/04/making-choices-how-your-brain-decides/
http://news.utexas.edu/2013/11/07/decode-decision-making-process
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201505/the-neuroscience-making-decision

All this crap

is either just trying to avoid making a decision, or rationalize a decision they've already made but are scared of living up to.

I am sorry you had to endure this kind of life Annie..most do not understand what it'f like unless you lived it day in and day out

look at the wonderful woman you are today

When it got to the point where I thought the crazy ***** might actually knife me in the back while I was sleeping. Getting hard to get a decent rest. This is a woman who aborted a child while we were married because "we are not going to make it" I figured her capable of anything after that. Said she was going to haunt me until I am dead. Has so far. 20+ years. I should write a book!

for me, for better or worse is pretty stern vow

the only 'conditions' so to speak are abandonment(one partner has already left , literally) or anything bringing physical harm to one partner or the kids (like physical abuse, infidelity, dangerous lifestyle,,etc)


so, for me, it was logical both times, as they were the very conditions that were always deal breakers

the first ended due to infidelity, I was disgusted, I didnt want him to touch me anymore, I couldnt imagine what he may be bringing home to our bed from these other women,,,,I just told him the truth and that knowing a platonic marriage was out the question, to avoid confrontation, I would be the one to leave


the second ended in abandonment, he basically just declared that he was not going to come back to the US(he was a british citizen) EVER


,,so, short answer,, yeah, it was pretty cut and dry,, though I would never say such a thing is 'easy'

Have them watch the movie, "Fireproof" it might help them figure out what is the most important to them.

As for me, I knew I needed to get out, but it took many years to break the brain wash cycle that he told me all the time. Even with the abuse, it was still a very difficult decision.

I love that movie.
The ex brought it round for me to watch with him so I did. Yes I could see where I fitted into it and what I was doing wrong. It is a tool that can do well if there is a little bit of love that can be blossom and the person doing the steps really has a heart for it not just thinking yeah I will do it because it looks good to others.

By this stage I was had it. I didn't even want to be near him without feeling something crawling all over me. Until that divorce came through he thought he could still control and yes he did.
My kids and I have been through a lot with him, his family and his church mates.
House robbed, kidnapping and brainwashing the girls, they were trying to ruin my life by their lies.
I moved away with my son because they had the girls. If I didn't move when I did.
Two days later the ex and two of his mates went to the empty house to take the boy.
All my 3 children are with me now and don't have anything to do with the ex or anyone.
That is their choice not mine.
I am not afraid of them
If I go back to visit and they see me. The guilt on their faces they couldn't get away fast enough.
They are paying for what they have
they have had homes broken into and many things like sickness have come upon them.
I think they need to put right what they have done to many people.

Through this I have learnt be careful how you treat others because it comes back on to you 100 times worse.

Thank you Tmommy
I am a lot stronger than I ever have been and I needed to grow so I can be there for others.

I don't seek revenge
I don't harbour any hatred towards them.
By forgiving and letting go has given me peace.
I love my life now and I can't wait to see what my future brings.
I know there will be plenty of laughter.

Trial separations sound like baloney to me.

Either you want to be together or it has gotten to be more misery than it is worth to fix.

A Kid never deserves to be the scapegoat for living in a broken home.

One thing I would bet asking a friend who has a failed marriage is probably not the best place for guidance how to fix one. Misery too often loves company and sows the seeds of discontent.