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| Topic: All hell is breaking loose in Paris | |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 11/14/15 11:39 AM
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they did this attack woth 8 people I understand that not all Muslims are violent (If they were we'd all be dead, there is far more of them than us) However, as stated this was 8 people if we allow in 10,000 you think it's possible that less then 1% may be extremists? Sometimes you have to throw out an entire container of apples because a few are bad and could spoil the rest..... should we only allow in women and children then, you know men are responsible for SO MUCH Murder and rape and crime,,,after all,, could spoil the rest,,, 
why allow any of them in? whats the reasoning behind it? Id call it human decency, helping others in need, recognizing we could be that 'other' someday,,,, and all that jazz about 'the land of opportunity' and 'give us your tired and poor and yearning to be free' |
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I'm sorry Crystal, but I have to take issue with some of the things you've said...
Wanting a gun is based on living in fear.
 First off, please know that I am trying to say this with respect - but that seems to be a bit of a knee-jerk statement, from someone who is operating more from emotion than reason. (No offense intended.)
I realize that you & I have spent our lives in distinctly different cultures - I grew up using a .22 to bounce soda cans around, and later I discovered that vaporizing clay "pigeons" with a shotgun is a HELL of a lot of fun.  Those two activities are exercises in developing precision muscle control, not unlike golf. Many use firearms for hunting, or precision shooting, varmint control and yes, self-defense. There are a LOT of different reasons to own a gun. Making an oversimplified "blanket statement" ignores the more-complex reality.
People will start killing others when they think they see a Muslim or think someone is a terrorist.
You really think that's going to help mankind?? It will only increase hate, fear and create more extremists, and before you know it, we will blow up the entire world. Way to go! Great thinking!!  There's no need to dramatize, or resort to hyperbole. The same exact type of argument was made back in 1996-97 when Florida was the first state to consider allowing it's citizens to carry concealed weapons, in fact opponents argued that Florida would become "Dodge City East", that people would use guns to settle traffic disputes, & they even coined a nickname - "The Gunshine State" (a play on words based on "The Sunshine State"). Despite the propaganda, the measure passed - and what actually happened?? ""What we can say with some confidence is that allowing more people to carry guns does not cause an increase in crime. In Florida, where 315,000 permits have been issued, there are only five known instances of violent gun crime by a person with a permit. This makes a permit-holding Floridian the cream of the crop of law-abiding citizens, 840 times less likely to commit a violent firearm crime than a randomly selected Floridian without a permit." ("More Permits Mean Less Crime..." Los Angeles Times, Feb. 19, 1996, Monday, p. B-5)" Now you can argue that Europeans may be different than Americans, but I suspect that when it comes to handling firearms, it really won't matter where one comes from. As long as the person with the gun has some decent training, & a reasonable/adult "outlook on life" (primarily meaning a 'non-murderous' outlook!), there should be no problem. As Maxisu stated - the Swiss have widespread firearms ownership, & you don't hear of huge problems with them. Further, members of many European militaries operate side-by-side with U.S. & other troops, & you don't hear of any real problems with those arrangements! Finally, if you don't trust your neighbor with a gun, then _why_ should you trust them with a vote?? 
Ppl sell arms because they're poor, because it's a way to make a lot of money. Stopping that kind of chit could be achieved if that poverty was dealt with. If people could lead a good life, as in really good, they couldn't be bothered with arms dealing anymore.
*THIS* is the statement that really makes me want to (I'm sorry) because it just absolutely IGNORES human nature! My argument is nicely summed up in the lyrics of Bruce Springsteen's _Badlands_ song:
Poor man wanna be rich, Rich man wanna be king, And a king ain't satisfied, 'til he rules everything... Can you SERIOUSLY say that there will never be someone who wants more money, more status/power or a more-attractive mate than everyone else?? Do you honestly think that the Islamists who are currently flooding Europe don't include many who fully intend to force Islam/Sharia upon the earth?? THEY are *NOT* going to be impressed with any handouts given to them. What is your solution for those whose only desire is to either kill or enslave you?? 
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they did this attack woth 8 people I understand that not all Muslims are violent (If they were we'd all be dead, there is far more of them than us) However, as stated this was 8 people if we allow in 10,000 you think it's possible that less then 1% may be extremists? Sometimes you have to throw out an entire container of apples because a few are bad and could spoil the rest..... should we only allow in women and children then, you know men are responsible for SO MUCH Murder and rape and crime,,,after all,, could spoil the rest,,,
why allow any of them in? whats the reasoning behind it? Id call it human decency, helping others in need, recognizing we could be that 'other' someday,,,, ok, human decency... here are some stats just about the homeless here, ALREADY in the US: Number of homeless people in the US - 1,750,000 Average monthly income for a homeless individual - $348 Percent of homeless that do not get enough to eat daily - 28 % Percent of homeless that did paid work during the past month - 44 % Percent of homeless that have problems with alcohol, drug abuse, or mental illness - 66 % Percent of homeless persons that have been sexually assaulted - 7 % Percent of homeless that have been homeless for more than two (2) years - 30 % Percent of homeless women that are unaccompanied / have no partner - 40 % Percent of homeless women claim to have been abused within the past year. - 25 % Percent of homeless women who claim domestic abuse as the reason for their homelessness - 22 % Percent of homeless population that are Veterans / Vets 40 % Percent of homeless persons who are employed 25 % Number of Americans who now live in hunger or on the edge of hunger - 31,000,000 Percent of people in a soup kitchen line who are children - 20 % Number of families who are lodging nightly in city shelters in New York City - 6,252 Number of children in the U.S. who live below poverty level. - 12,000,000 Annual number of food stamp recipients who are children - 9,300,000 Percent of cities surveyed that identified domestic violence as a primary cause of homelessness - 46 % Percent of the adult homeless population that suffer from a severe and persistent mental illness - 22 % Percent of homeless persons who have a mental illness that requires institutionalization - 6 % Demographic make-up of the homeless population Percent Single Men - 44 % Single Women - 13 % Families with Children - 36 % Unaccompanied Minors - 7 % Racial breakdown of homeless population Percent African-American - 50 % White - 35 % Hispanic - 12 % Native American - 2 % Asian 1 % Homelessness is the condition of people without a regular dwelling. People who are homeless are most often unable to acquire and maintain regular, safe, secure, and adequate housing, or lack "fixed, regular, and adequate night-time residence." Related Statistics so it's ok to bring could be/probable terrorists over here and give them money, food, housing and a car while doing nothing for the citizens here that need it? |
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do you really consider having a gun on par with having a vote?
have many people voted someone dead,, I mean,, directly? |
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do you really consider having a gun on par with having a vote? have many people voted someone dead,, I mean,, directly? people were going that long before guns were around... obama doesn't like guns, but yet he gives them to the Mexican cartels, ISIS, Syrian rebels, Ukraine, everyone but his citizens... why do you think that is? |
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You actually thought that French citizens would do this to their own?
Well, technically, I'd say that's entirely possible - the following article came out in 2002, & it describes *quite well* the powder-keg that Parisian society is resting upon: http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_4_the_barbarians.html I would be quite surprised if some residents of the banlieus weren't instrumental in helping to enable yesterday's attack. |
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they did this attack woth 8 people I understand that not all Muslims are violent (If they were we'd all be dead, there is far more of them than us) However, as stated this was 8 people if we allow in 10,000 you think it's possible that less then 1% may be extremists? Sometimes you have to throw out an entire container of apples because a few are bad and could spoil the rest..... should we only allow in women and children then, you know men are responsible for SO MUCH Murder and rape and crime,,,after all,, could spoil the rest,,,
why allow any of them in? whats the reasoning behind it? Id call it human decency, helping others in need, recognizing we could be that 'other' someday,,,, ok, human decency... here are some stats just about the homeless here, ALREADY in the US: Number of homeless people in the US - 1,750,000 Average monthly income for a homeless individual - $348 Percent of homeless that do not get enough to eat daily - 28 % Percent of homeless that did paid work during the past month - 44 % Percent of homeless that have problems with alcohol, drug abuse, or mental illness - 66 % Percent of homeless persons that have been sexually assaulted - 7 % Percent of homeless that have been homeless for more than two (2) years - 30 % Percent of homeless women that are unaccompanied / have no partner - 40 % Percent of homeless women claim to have been abused within the past year. - 25 % Percent of homeless women who claim domestic abuse as the reason for their homelessness - 22 % Percent of homeless population that are Veterans / Vets 40 % Percent of homeless persons who are employed 25 % Number of Americans who now live in hunger or on the edge of hunger - 31,000,000 Percent of people in a soup kitchen line who are children - 20 % Number of families who are lodging nightly in city shelters in New York City - 6,252 Number of children in the U.S. who live below poverty level. - 12,000,000 Annual number of food stamp recipients who are children - 9,300,000 Percent of cities surveyed that identified domestic violence as a primary cause of homelessness - 46 % Percent of the adult homeless population that suffer from a severe and persistent mental illness - 22 % Percent of homeless persons who have a mental illness that requires institutionalization - 6 % Demographic make-up of the homeless population Percent Single Men - 44 % Single Women - 13 % Families with Children - 36 % Unaccompanied Minors - 7 % Racial breakdown of homeless population Percent African-American - 50 % White - 35 % Hispanic - 12 % Native American - 2 % Asian 1 % Homelessness is the condition of people without a regular dwelling. People who are homeless are most often unable to acquire and maintain regular, safe, secure, and adequate housing, or lack "fixed, regular, and adequate night-time residence." Related Statistics so it's ok to bring could be/probable terrorists over here and give them money, food, housing and a car while doing nothing for the citizens here that need it? who said anything about 'giving' people anything? or doing nothing for those who are here? its ok to allow people to come in who wish to contribute and live their lives,,,in relative safety and 'freedom' |
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do you really consider having a gun on par with having a vote? have many people voted someone dead,, I mean,, directly? people were going that long before guns were around... obama doesn't like guns, but yet he gives them to the Mexican cartels, ISIS, Syrian rebels, Ukraine, everyone but his citizens... why do you think that is? not addressing whether any of that is true, but if he or anyone else doesnt 'like' guns so what , I dont 'like' water, but I drink it and recognize that others do too (not everyone drinks water , before that response is given,, I know people who NEVER drink it though they drink other beverages) I dont like guns either, if I needed one, I would get one, but it wouldnt be something I 'liked',,,,,and I wouldnt fuss if others who where under attack BY guns and other weapons asked for guns |
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wouldnt it be interesting if it were actually anti immigrant groups STAGING these attacks to look as if immigrants were responsible? ,,,will wait for things settle and more actual FACTS come together,,,,, wouldn that be 'this is for Allah' then? or is syria the motherland of muslims? They just announced that ISIS was behind this mess. ISIS , now we know,,,, it 'looked' like a terrorist, which is not a label specifically or uniquely tied to muslims,,, |
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seems the credit was taken via INTERNET it crosses my mind that (much like serial killers) a prime goal of those who commit these mass killings is to be accredited for it and to receive notoriety much the same way the media shuts down certain personalities and all their work when they are even accused let alone claim guilt in a crime,,,why dont these providers likewise monitor the messages their sites are being used for and shut them down before they are able to receive that credit or notoriety? how fast might they die out if people just stopped hearing anything about them? how might THAT 'knock the wind out of their cells'? and greatly decrease their ability to make instant allies all over the world,,,? That's certainly *part* of the solution, & some are already working on that... https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/13/anonymous-hackers-islamic-state-isis-chan-online-war/ |
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wouldnt it be interesting if it were actually anti immigrant groups STAGING these attacks to look as if immigrants were responsible? ,,,will wait for things settle and more actual FACTS come together,,,,, wouldn that be 'this is for Allah' then? or is syria the motherland of muslims? They just announced that ISIS was behind this mess. ISIS , now we know,,,, it 'looked' like a terrorist, which is not a label specifically or uniquely tied to muslims,,, lol, calling it 'spin' has become the popular 'spin' when folks dont want to address the posts,, but thats cool... and again, I am open to be educated as to how to tell a 'muslim' terrorist from any other,,, if they arent 'dressed' in muslim clothing or screamin allah? |
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and again, I am open to be educated as to how
Youre the genius who couldnt figure out it was a Muslm terrorist attack from the beginning. If you lack that much common sense, theres no educating you at anything.
to tell a 'muslim' terrorist from any other,,, if they arent 'dressed' in muslim clothing or screamin allah? There are some dumb motherfrickers in this world. They play with snakes....and when they get bit, they bltch and moan for others to do something about it....as long as they dont kill the snakes so they can play with them again. And if someone doesnt get the analogy, theyre probably one of those dumb motherfrickers to begin with. |
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wouldnt it be interesting if it were actually anti immigrant groups STAGING these attacks to look as if immigrants were responsible? ,,,will wait for things settle and more actual FACTS come together,,,,, wouldn that be 'this is for Allah' then? or is syria the motherland of muslims? They just announced that ISIS was behind this mess. ISIS , now we know,,,, it 'looked' like a terrorist, which is not a label specifically or uniquely tied to muslims,,, lol, calling it 'spin' has become the popular 'spin' when folks dont want to address the posts,, but thats cool... and again, I am open to be educated as to how to tell a 'muslim' terrorist from any other,,, if they arent 'dressed' in muslim clothing or screamin allah? You can tell right before they kill you. That's a good way. 
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wouldnt it be interesting if it were actually anti immigrant groups STAGING these attacks to look as if immigrants were responsible? ,,,will wait for things settle and more actual FACTS come together,,,,, Doesn't seem to be the case....does it. You actually thought that French citizens would do this to their own?...actually murder over 100 people.. including kids.. their own.. in a well planned out attack and then blame it on the Muslims... really?.. you actually considered this??? And by anti immigrant groups you meant non Muslim...right it was a possibility that I pondered, I didnt really specify WHO the anti immigrant persons would be or their origin,,, it would just be a great way to force a war,,,,which to me isnt a far fetched possibility by anti immigrant, I meant those who were mad about the countries that were opening their doors to Syrians (per the 'this is for syria' statements) I didnt have in mind what race, religion, or nationality,, because thats not really what determines who is anti open immigration,, does it? I see.. I understand now.. your thought being, maybe it was that grass roots organization " Sorry we got here first, no more room avalible" Muslim group. Who then proceeded to kill non Muslims. Or the Christian " lets kill our own people to prove a point about the ones we are unhappy about" grass roots group. Or a combo of both. And your first reaction wasn't that the Muslim terrorist were responsible?... Muslims... which of course was the case. And it also seems that the entire world also knew immediately who was responsible for this horrendous crime...especially the Muslims. And I am sure in those French Muslim neighborhoods there were a fair amount of private smiles shared afterwards, between those who knew beforehand of the carnage that was to unfold. I hope the French people turn those neighborhoods upside down to weed out every last animal associated with this. |
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wouldnt it be interesting if it were actually anti immigrant groups STAGING these attacks to look as if immigrants were responsible? ,,,will wait for things settle and more actual FACTS come together,,,,, Doesn't seem to be the case....does it. You actually thought that French citizens would do this to their own?...actually murder over 100 people.. including kids.. their own.. in a well planned out attack and then blame it on the Muslims... really?.. you actually considered this??? And by anti immigrant groups you meant non Muslim...right it was a possibility that I pondered, I didnt really specify WHO the anti immigrant persons would be or their origin,,, it would just be a great way to force a war,,,,which to me isnt a far fetched possibility by anti immigrant, I meant those who were mad about the countries that were opening their doors to Syrians (per the 'this is for syria' statements) I didnt have in mind what race, religion, or nationality,, because thats not really what determines who is anti open immigration,, does it? I see.. I understand now.. your thought being, maybe it was that grass roots organization " Sorry we got here first, no more room avalible" Muslim group. Who then proceeded to kill non Muslims. Or the Christian " lets kill our own people to prove a point about the ones we are unhappy about" grass roots group. Or a combo of both. And your first reaction wasn't that the Muslim terrorist were responsible?... Muslims... which of course was the case. And it also seems that the entire world also knew immediately who was responsible for this horrendous crime...especially the Muslims. And I am sure in those French Muslim neighborhoods there were a fair amount of private smiles shared afterwards, between those who knew beforehand of the carnage that was to unfold. I hope the French people turn those neighborhoods upside down to weed out every last animal associated with this. Too late for France and Europe. It will get worse there. We need to heed the warning. But it takes common sense to do that. 
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and again, I am open to be educated as to how
Youre the genius who couldnt figure out it was a Muslm terrorist attack from the beginning. If you lack that much common sense, theres no educating you at anything.
to tell a 'muslim' terrorist from any other,,, if they arent 'dressed' in muslim clothing or screamin allah? There are some dumb motherfrickers in this world. They play with snakes....and when they get bit, they bltch and moan for others to do something about it....as long as they dont kill the snakes so they can play with them again. And if someone doesnt get the analogy, theyre probably one of those dumb motherfrickers to begin with. personal attacks can usually be taken as having no logical response ..perhaps someone else will 'educate' me on the signs of a muslim terrorist, vs an anti government terrorist or some other type,,, (besides them wearing muslim clothing or mentioning allah,, that is) |
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wouldnt it be interesting if it were actually anti immigrant groups STAGING these attacks to look as if immigrants were responsible? ,,,will wait for things settle and more actual FACTS come together,,,,, wouldn that be 'this is for Allah' then? or is syria the motherland of muslims? They just announced that ISIS was behind this mess. ISIS , now we know,,,, it 'looked' like a terrorist, which is not a label specifically or uniquely tied to muslims,,, lol, calling it 'spin' has become the popular 'spin' when folks dont want to address the posts,, but thats cool... and again, I am open to be educated as to how to tell a 'muslim' terrorist from any other,,, if they arent 'dressed' in muslim clothing or screamin allah? You can tell right before they kill you. That's a good way.
no, Id only know they were killers their religion or cause may not be evident merely because they were about to kill me,,, |
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wouldnt it be interesting if it were actually anti immigrant groups STAGING these attacks to look as if immigrants were responsible? ,,,will wait for things settle and more actual FACTS come together,,,,, Doesn't seem to be the case....does it. You actually thought that French citizens would do this to their own?...actually murder over 100 people.. including kids.. their own.. in a well planned out attack and then blame it on the Muslims... really?.. you actually considered this??? And by anti immigrant groups you meant non Muslim...right it was a possibility that I pondered, I didnt really specify WHO the anti immigrant persons would be or their origin,,, it would just be a great way to force a war,,,,which to me isnt a far fetched possibility by anti immigrant, I meant those who were mad about the countries that were opening their doors to Syrians (per the 'this is for syria' statements) I didnt have in mind what race, religion, or nationality,, because thats not really what determines who is anti open immigration,, does it? I see.. I understand now.. your thought being, maybe it was that grass roots organization " Sorry we got here first, no more room avalible" Muslim group. Who then proceeded to kill non Muslims. Or the Christian " lets kill our own people to prove a point about the ones we are unhappy about" grass roots group. Or a combo of both. And your first reaction wasn't that the Muslim terrorist were responsible?... Muslims... which of course was the case. And it also seems that the entire world also knew immediately who was responsible for this horrendous crime...especially the Muslims. And I am sure in those French Muslim neighborhoods there were a fair amount of private smiles shared afterwards, between those who knew beforehand of the carnage that was to unfold. I hope the French people turn those neighborhoods upside down to weed out every last animal associated with this. actually and truly some of them WERE french citizens...lol and the piece said nothing about only non muslims dying or being killed, so Im not sure where that piece of information comes from,,,had I had knowledge that NON MUSLIMS specifically were targeted that would be another clue,, but alas no SUCH MENTION of that type of targeting was in the information but back to my point, my thought was these are terrorists,, my thought didnt automatically conclude that the religion was muslim being there was nothing indicating they alluded to religion I didnt EXCLUDE they were responsible, but I didnt automatically ASSUME it either ,,get the difference there? |
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wouldnt it be interesting if it were actually anti immigrant groups STAGING these attacks to look as if immigrants were responsible? ,,,will wait for things settle and more actual FACTS come together,,,,, wouldn that be 'this is for Allah' then? or is syria the motherland of muslims? They just announced that ISIS was behind this mess. ISIS , now we know,,,, it 'looked' like a terrorist, which is not a label specifically or uniquely tied to muslims,,, lol, calling it 'spin' has become the popular 'spin' when folks dont want to address the posts,, but thats cool... and again, I am open to be educated as to how to tell a 'muslim' terrorist from any other,,, if they arent 'dressed' in muslim clothing or screamin allah? You can tell right before they kill you. That's a good way.
no, Id only know they were killers their religion or cause may not be evident merely because they were about to kill me,,,  more liberal logic...
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Edited by
RebelArcher
on
Sat 11/14/15 02:56 PM
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personal attacks can usually be taken as having
Damn near the whole world knew it was Muslim terrorists and you didnt and YOU question logic? Just because YOU didnt recognize it, that doesnt mean everyone else is wrong....it means YOU dont know chicken$hit from chicken salad.
no logical response ..perhaps someone else will 'educate' me on the signs of a muslim terrorist, vs an anti government terrorist or some other type,,, (besides them wearing muslim clothing or mentioning allah,, that is) |
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