If Karma is justice then if you don't wear a seat belt and get killed in an accident would that be righteous?
Or am I confusing it with something now

Or is it only karma when it suits you?

Sure, things you do might bite you in the *** eventually... or it might not.
If you do something wrong, but have discovered a pattern in the consequences of whatever immoral action you've committed you would be able to make a plan for it.
doesn't that mean you've beat karma?
Then things that goes around apparently won't come around anymore, or they will but you won't notice it do to your plan.
I think people make these plans as they go in life and eventually it becomes routine.
I can imagine a lot of scenarios where this might play out like parents being overprotective of their abusive and uncontrollable child.

If someone does something wrong to you, do you leave the punishing/policing to the great camera in the sky and do nothing or do you take matters into your own hands?

Psalm 143

Psalm 59

If you believe in karma, but dont believe in inherited karma, then is it safe to say that you dont believe in reincarnation? That your karma only affects you and not others?

Apparently, karma has slightly differing concepts according to which school of thought it was developed from.
But it seeks to answer questions of causality in connection to justice, transferability of accountability and psychologic indeterminacy or predetermined destiny vs free will. And these concepts can either be for personal consumption or can transcend several lifetimes.

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The corollary to your question is
If someone does something wrong to you (or a loved one), how faithfully are you willing to let God's justice prevail, or how far are you willing to go by taking matters in your own hands?

I believe karma is more about what you do to others, than what you do to yourself

so , not taking care of yourself, would most likely be seen as having a direct consequence,,that includes an accident while drinking or not wearing a seat belt

however, if your choice to drink or not wear a seat belt, causes someone ELSES Death,,

and at some point in your life, you or a loved one suffer the same fate you caused another,,that might be KARMA

Not sure about reincarnation. I would like to I think but not enough evidence either way. I just believe life is what you make it.
If reincarnation is real then I would hope to start off with a fresh slate or at least only have to attone for my own wrong doing and not those of my ancestors

This is the nicest way to say...you will get yours...lol..

For some reason...we usually do not give much emphasis on being thankful about inheriting the good karma, but we tend to shy away from believing in the bad...
Its probably similar to generational curses...like the kennedys, bruce lee...and similar stories of familial misfortune.

Inheriting good Karma? I guess I consider that to be more "fate" who my parents are, where I was raised etc

I really admire your writing, Pansytilly.

Yes. How far are you willing to go believing that your god will give you justice?
I understand the logic behind it because you're powerless in most situations (despite what movies have taught us).
What better comfort than being told that they will get theirs eventually. But they wont.
It's just from my experience what goes around doesn't really come around at all. In fact things just keep getting worse and worse. once a really bad thing happens, things just go down hill.
People get away with the worst of things because they've done it sooooo many times before. They know how to get out of anything.
Of course you can't expect a bolt of lightning to come crashing down upon those who wronged you from a pissed off god in the clouds.
But then again you can't really expect anything.
All you have is whatever little amount of wit you have left and in my opinion it's up to you to use it.

It seems to me like people cherry pick whatever kind of karma that suits them, whilst ignoring the ones that contradict. And then they speak of justice.

Well...here are a couple of interesting readings on that :)

http://www.kktanhp.com/law_of_karma.htm
http://camphillchurch.org/study_books/GENERATIONAL%20CURSE.pdf
http://innerself.com/content/relationships/family/4870-what-is-family-karma-by-ashok-bedi-a-boris-matthews.html

Thanks, I will check it out. My son took a course on religion in college and it included some Buddhism. It was an interesting concept.

God is God, but the gods you are referring to seem to be what you make of them.
Some people see themselves as gods as well. Some treat money as god, some reputation, some pride...etc etc. the very thing that you serve and protect at all costs is your god. But this is not a pissing contest as to "my god is better than yours" ...lol...

For me, it is irresponsible to think that God will smite your enemies for your personal satisfaction. He made the world with order and because of sin, we people messed it up. So, it is up to us to clean up the mess the best way we can... Not everyone likes the idea of cleaning up messes...so yeah, people tend to get away with the worst and cruelest possible things.
He can intervene if He wants to, how He wants to, but in His time and reason, not ours. It's not something that He "owes" us. So again, yes...its not like we can expect something that we want Him to do to happen the way we want it to happen. We're not the boss of Him...lol...

Justice is never often absolute in one lifetime. That's probably why people cherry-picks what fits according to what is understood, when we don't have the entire picture (history, motivation, intent, circumstance, actions) of what really happened.

There are a few types of people in the world in reference to a higher power ( being or universe )

Those that truly believe, follow and put their faith in a higher power
Those that use the concept of a higher power to justify themselves
Those that live how they want to live while recognizing a higher power
Those that believe in themselves and do not believe in a higher power
Those that are searching for what to believe in

Practically speaking, no one can judge who is better or worse off than the other. We can only judge ourselves on the choices we make and the situations we are in.

Selected quotes by Edmund Burke

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little.

Our patience will achieve more than our force.

But what is liberty without wisdom and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint. Those who know what virtuous liberty is, cannot bear to see it disgraced by incapable heads, on account of their having high-sounding words in their mouths.

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.

When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.

He that wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men.

Liberty does not exist in the absence of morality.

Among a people generally corrupt, liberty cannot long exist.

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to their ancestors.

Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites…in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.

They never will love where they ought to love, who do not hate where they ought to hate.

Yes they seem to be. But for people who do not believe in God, the point is moot.

It's probably better to have the topic title as :
God's justice vs the universal concept of karma


Your question did lead me to this question:
if you would take it upon yourself to take revenge on someone whom you feel have wronged you, wouldn't karma catch up with you anyways?



I would like to step on this Pansytilly and give my take as someone Godless but believe on goodness and accountability.

Keeping in mind that the OP is Revenge Vs. Karma.
Tiptoeing as much as I can to be politically-correct-

This is how I see Revenge: A Premiditated choice
-pestered by hate
-easy to spot but uncontrollable
-damaged & hurt:
1.bystanders who are in the way
2.the person who is intent on revenge
3.the person who is recepient of the revenge

Versus -

This is how I see Karma: Consequences of your Actions

I can explain it through a concrete example:

Words - on Posts
When people post words, they are accountable to it.
No matter how credible or questionable you are,
people will always go back and check your words.


no matter what are the intentions:

to take revenge
to flirt
to goad
to confuse
to reject
to hurt
to discourage
to clear out things
to defend
to help
to teach a lesson
to point to the right direction

People are accountable to those words.
Whether the motive is calculating or innocent
there will always be consequences -

Consequences:
People reading the posts, will always read it
the way they perceive things,
the way they understand it,
the way they see themselves,
the way they can relate to it
the way their emotions are involve.
Even if the post is not for them.

Consequences are the effects of people's words as implied.
As with deeds, people have to live with the consequences,
of their words and actions.

So in revenge vs. karma, why not -

-let time differentiates?
-let time corrects wrong impressions?
-let time clear out things?
-let time unfolds what needs to be clarified?

Halftruths are more dangerous and misleading.
There are just things, that can't be achieve and done
in a day.
People cant always ask someone to intervene and fix things.
There are just things that are unresolved and will need time
to uncover the truth.

If in time people will see it as God's justice or see it as karma,
some, like me will see it as consequences of their actions.

Basically, you are saying, it is what it is or what you make of it.

But you are talking about accountability of each person on their own and in their own terms.

Im not removing personal accountability. But the way i see it, if everyone were able to be wholly accountable enough towards others as to accept the full extent of the consequences or results of their actions on their own, and with respect to others, without any external reason or force to regulate them, then there would be no need or use for the concept of karma or revenge or God's justice.

But we know that that is not often the case.

When other people have to live with the consequences and results of what others do directly or indirectly to them, good or bad, with or without intent, that is when acceptance or rejection of karma, revenge and justice comes into play. Some effects can last one lifetime, some can last for generations.

Ideally, the concept is that everyone is made equal in all aspects. We know that is not possible to the fullest extent in the eyes of our fellowman. The saying goes is that only in the eyes of God are we all on equal footing....ashes to ashes, dust to dust...naked we came, naked we will leave. Hence, God (for revenge) or the universe (for karma) can best determine the ideal (for justice). That was the initial concept of the post and that is why i said the point becomes moot in academic if one does not believe in that.