bl8ant,

There is no negativity, doom or gloom, it's hilarious. It's always funny when something comes along and reveals another true motives. Some people here don't care who ordered the torture or who failed in Iraq, just so long as they can blame it all on Bush.

spider so ur syaing that the guard at abu ghraib was a liberal who only acted in a fascist uncaring manner to make the government look bad?

Thats a rather ridiculous theory on the same level as "president bush and cheney r r actually liberals acting the way they r so the republican party wont get nominated for decades they're messing up on purpose!"

a rather odd line of thinking but more oddd that u said the it (not my sarcastic example but) the 1st one in all seriousness

for me it's not hilarious...........none of it.



just frightening, the level of extremism and the hard core attachment and inflexibility to even consider the validity of any other point of view.

if there was a hard core muslim posting about islam the way you and donner post about christianity i would find it just as ridiculous.

and equally as scary.

yeah people will say anything to keep themselves in denial
its sick

lizardking19,

No, not a guard. The General who authorized the prisoners to be tortured. Try to keep up.

bl8ant,

This has nothing to do with religion. Either you haven't read the thread or you are trying to deflect the issue.

Okay, I've probably missed something in my reading but here goes.


Rambill quote 1
the only way to win this war is to destroy the enemy utterly, without mercy and take the spoils. That is what conquerers do.

Rambill quote 2
Whether we sqweeze some enemy combatants or not is a non issue..

Rambill quote 3
..and if someones family members are offended... so what? they are the enemy. Please Quit coddling those who would gladly kill you for the fun of it.

Hmm. Correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while since I left an American education) but I believe that only Congress can declare war. As such there is no declared war against Iraq. There are only 5 Declared Wars in US history.
1...War of 1812
2...Mexican-American War
3...Spanish-American War
4...WW I
5...WW II

Iraq is not a War. It is a Military Engagement authorized by congress same as 'Operation Desert Storm' was.


Rambill the first two statements show the lack of knowledge in the history of your own nation ( having been a colony the United States of America would not become a conquering nation) and a lack of knowledge in international law such as the Geneva Conventions which guarantee the safety of non combatants and od wounded enemy combatants. By your reasoning the victims of 9/11 were fairgame, the victims of the Achille Loro were fair game, any non uniformed target of the groups fighting for their beliefs are fair game. That's your rules of engagement.
Your third quote shows that you do not understand the human mind. If you cause pain to a person while wearing the national uniform of a country the victims (both direct and indirect) do not see an individual but a nation. You are creating your own enemies in a never ending cycle. I support troops in what they do but to send them into a never ending cycle is senseless. Ask the Russians, they learned that in Afghanistan.

For Stuck_in_Ohio re Geneva Conventions. I knew I'd seen this before.




The 1979 First Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions (Protocol 1) seeks, among other things, to effectively bring legal combatant status to forces not adhering to the uniform and certain other regulations of the Hague and Geneva Conventions, which arguably can include those some may consider terrorists.

The definition of an "international armed conflict" would include "armed conflicts in which peoples are fighting against colonial domination and alien [foreign] occupation and against racist regimes in the exercise of their right of self-determination, as enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." (From article 1[4])

The Protocol may, unlike the 1949 Conventions that require combatants to wear uniforms, also give lawful combatant status to non-uniformed guerrilla in international armed conflicts as long as they bear their arms openly during military operations.

Torture done by a 'civilized' nation will never teach the uncivilized a better way but will continue to propagate hate, fear and retribution.

and deeming another culture uncivilized , based on "democratic principles" that are a hypocrisy to begin with...hmmmmmmmmm


civilization began there in case anyone has forgotton.

I hadn't forgotten I'm simply stating in terms they will comprehend. I remember that the cradle of Modern Civilization is there.

preachin to the choir darlin

really i hope in the next few years an administratiom will have the balls to stop the war/conflict loophole

Torture is never justified..Those who rely on it qre criminals!

By the way Hang Man.. You only did half of your homework naming all those victims..

Can you name the many hundreds of thousands if innocent Iraqis who were murdered by the US in this illegal invasion?

Well, I’ve been watching in here for quite a while without saying a thing, but I’m getting quite p*******d off.
Did I see someone shedding tears for people defending their country long ago, and the same person calling hell and damnation on every Iraqi who does the same for his country?
What are you trying? To divert the view from US atrocities?
Is that what your forefathers have been fighting for against the Brits, the freedom to do unto others what you don’t want to be done unto you?
Following a tyrant, hypocrite and liar, so you can get rich in the aftermath?
Shouting for as much blood as can be mustered because you are not the ones that are there?
Your forefathers would turn in their graves if they could see what you have made out of the country they fought for,
With a President who drags everything that once was good about America through dirt and mud, making in time the US the leper of the world.
Yes, you have a hell of a lot to be proud of.
You make me sick, you do.

Don't blame me
invisible,
I didn't vote
for Mr. Fortunate Son.

Hiker,
if you had read my post properly you'd know it wasn't for you,
but for the other bloodthirsty people on here that don't seem to get enough of a bloodshed out of Iraq, but call for one in Iran as well. And after that, who will be next??????

Hey Andrea!

What's up?

i didnt like this war before it even started. i was a voice in the wilderness when everybody a=was all fired up about "getting Hussain", ( mostly because of the media). Now we are there so my personal feelings about whether we should be there dont matter and neither do yours. We need to win, not fold after all this work, bloodshed and loss of life.