I believe that God's plan for salvation can be mapped out and understood by humans, at least as a high level overview. I have created a simple flowchart that describes salvation as I understand it and as much as my sleep deprived mind can grasp at this moment. So if you have any suggestions for improvements or if you find fault with anything, please let me know.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a196/SpiderCMB/Salvation.jpg

If we could, I would like to keep the Christianity bashing to a minimum. If you feel the need to let me know how much you dislike Christianity, I promise to read all emails received.

It appears that the only way in is through sin.

So I guess that means that people who are without sin just by-pass the whole thing then.

That makes it easy because I don’t believe that man is inherently evil in the first place.

Some people are more like Noah.

Do you have flow charts for how to build an Arc?

Some of us might find those more useful.

and there u go boys all over again

Abra

building an arc is easy - just cut a circle. Building an ark however - is a little more work

Thanks Eljay, you're very kind. I wouldn’t want to get the wrong plans that wouldn’t be cool.

It's all those years of math Abra - can't get it out of your head.

Yeah, I can’t get enough of it either, I’m just now beginning to embark on a brand new mathematical journey. It has often been said that mathematics is the mind of god, and in some ways it is there can be no doubt about it. It’s fascinating stuff.

In keeping with the thread topic I thought I'd make a flowchart to god for any pantheists out there.



http://www.csonline.net/designer/ideas/god.htm

If I die and go to hell and get shown a flow chart of how I could have gotten somewhere else I will know I was really wrong

SisterShaman,

The flowchart I posted can be condensed into a single verse:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

“John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

If you accept John words then it’s clear that a person cannot have everlasting life unless they believe in God’s son. Therefore if a person does not believe in the son of God it would be impossible for them to go to hell because they won’t receive everlasting life, they will simply perish which means to cease to exist.

So to even be eligible for an eternal hell a person would need to believe in the son of God first otherwise they will simply perish. So according to this non-Christians cannot be sent to hell, instead they will simply perish. Only believers will have a shot at getting into hell. And their only chance of doing that is to believe yet defy. There are many examples of people who believe yet defy. Perhaps those people have bought a ticket to hell?

Anoasis once said that we may very well get what we believe. There may be some truth in her words, Even the Bible suggests that a person’s belief will have an effect on what happens to them. Both here in John 3:16 and back in the days of the Tower of Babel when the gods came and saw man building a tower to heaven and said, “The people is one and now nothing will be restrained from them which they have imagined to do”

This clearly implies that our imagination does indeed create our reality thus giving credence to Anoasis’ view.

psych is Greek for life.
Zoe is Greek for "the absolute fulness of life, both essential and ethical". Zoe is in reference to a life dedicated to serving God.

In John 3:16, the word for life was "zoe", not "psych". John 3:16 is promising an eternal and fullfilling life to those who are believe in Jesus. Whatever awaits those who don't believe in Jesus is a completely different story. There is nothing in the Bible that suggests that the unsaved couldn't have an eternal life of suffering. Not that I completely accept the concept of hell. I know that the unsaved have a terrible fate, but I don't know what that might be. Some say eternal fire and some say eternal darkness and some say eternally eaten by worms. Some believe that existance ends for the unsaved. I don't have an opinion, just like I don't have a preference for a type of maxi-pad or tampon, I won't ever need one.

Abra;

If John 3:16 were the only reference to salvation and judgement in the bible, your post would have a ring of truth to it - but there are many other references to judgement and eternal damnation which would tend to contradict your conclusion from a Christian's perspective. And after all - it is the Christian God who the salvation of 3:16 is refering to.

what about John 3:5, Acts 2:1-39; 10:40-48, proclaimed on the Day of Pentecost on the birthday of the New Testament church, which includes faith in Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord, sincere repentance, water baptism by immersion in the name of Jesus Christ, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost with the joyous experience of speaking supernaturally in other tongues - just as the believer did in the first century. and Holiness both inwardly and outwardly, as a result of the working of God's grace in us, for the Word of the Lord declares that all who name the name of Christ should depart from sin and separate themselves from the evil practices of this present age as in Ephesians 4:21-24; 2 Timothy 2:19; Hebrews 12:14, and practicing genuine Christianity through love for God and people, prayer, obedience to the Word of God, heartfelt worship and expressive praise, sharing our faith, committment to marriage companions and families, availability to help one another in time of need, honesty and diligence in our employment, honor and respect for our government as it submits to the divine plan for human society, and the dedication of our time, talent, and treasure to advance the kingdom of God on earth as in Romans 12-12; Colossians 3-4? arent all these things part of salvation? or are they now discarded? John 3:16 IS VERY important, yes, BUT, it's the faith in that, that allows all these other scriptures and commands to be a part of our life.

Saying that because I'm a non-christian, and I don't believe in the concept of salvation or condemnation, then i just will perish.
It is as if i were saying because I don't see the air, I'm not breathing. That would be, as far as i understand, a fallacy.
Somethings are real even though we believe it or not.

no one is without sin except Christ....I like this I want to check it out.....

I guess the best thing to say or do is to say, "Lets see what happens"

Spider-

I'm sorry I didn't quite get your flow chart- as Abra pointed out it all starts with sin which goes to guilt but there doesn't appear to be a way *out* of guilt?

Or am I missing something? Well I'm sure I'm missing many things but in particular is there a way out of guilt?

~~~~~~~

Abra- your "flow" chart is very pretty... and so taoist...

If you have the time and inclination could you please repost the page where you put some of the poems you wrote for some of us?

And I would love it if you could post more of your poems in one place... sometimes I'm looking for one and I can't remember which thread prompted it's writing... Perhaps we could have a thread of "Abra's poems"?

Sister-

If there is any flow chart at all in my afterlife I will know that hell was indeed real...



But hopefully then I will just get control of my thoughts and imagine myself in a flower covered meadow...