Traumatic brain injury does not allow for re wiring of the synapses.

Neither does clinically psychopath....crimminalistic behaviors.

Then I suggest you be careful with your words, lest it be misconstrued as you championing the 'unchampionable'!

are these new requirements or definitions of 'abuse' or 'violence'?


or are we pointing out exceptions to peoples capacity to change?


yes, in the exceptional cases of brain injury, I imagine change to be much less of a given

but for the average human being, change is a part of living life. even if they have engaged in heavy drinking for a period of their life, or sleeping around, or losing their temper


the greatness of being human is the capacity to learn, grow, and in other words,, CHANGE

I am careful enough I believe. Some just look for controversy. The question was what do we think of violent men and women

my answer was I dont think gender makes any difference in it being wrong for someone to put their hands on another in violence and that I dont think gender has anything to do with it being natural for the person who has violence initiated upon them hitting back


the question was also can we trust people have change

my answer was I believe everyone can change, it depends upon the situation and the person,, so we should trust they may have changed while being cautious in case they havent

that turned into talk of 'abusers' and 'championing' somehow,,,

This thread's topic is NOT ABOUT YOUR SUPPOSED CHANGE.

so personal experience is not relevant when answering a question about a situation you have experience with?...lol

the question was whether PEOPLE can change,, I am not answering about myself, I am answering about PEOPLE, human beings

and giving a personal example of just the situation being asked about

I give up, you are master debater.

Making excuses for the choice to split your lip and black both your eyes sounds really flawed to me. Perhaps it is guilt or the desire for forgiveness for self that clouds the judgment of others not true forgiveness. But it is still a fact that someone chose to retaliate and hurt you and would given the opportunity see any prior permission to do so as a suggestion that they would get away with it again. You teach people how to treat you; good or bad. Sometimes there are standards of life and liberty that just don't get explained away by "details" or "excuses" and "being Human". But one thing for sure being and adult and a true partner means NOT being abusive. Some things are right and some things are wrong and physical violence against a partner or another human being is wrong. Plain and simple.

how is taking responsibility making an excuse?

cant two people both be wrong, without it meaning that either of them is providing excuse for the other?


gender doesnt change right and wrong

if one adult pushes another adult and the second adult beats them to a coma. both adults were wrong but the second adult was beyond anything understandable

they were both wrong REGARDLESS OF THEIR GENDERS

but if one adult pushes another adult and the second adult pushes them BACK ,, they were both wrong, but neither were monsters REGARDLESS OF GENDER

and the second adults response is understandable to me REGARDLESS OF GENDER

and if one does wrong and changes, which I believe almost all can, and have personal experience with one who did, that answers the op question of whether someone can change


plain and simple

ooh, is that verbal abuse?

nope. Just wishful thinking that you would stop championing for abusers. It's getting sickening.

we all have the option to read other threads,,,

its sickening to me the way society adopts the philosophy that people are only ever what they are in this moment and will never be able to be anything else

"my answer was I believe everyone can change, it depends upon the situation and the person,, so we should trust they may have changed while being cautious in case they havent"
..... yes, give them the benefit of the doubt.

Can someone come up with the statistics of abusers who 'changed' and abusers who 'did not'? I would bet it would be leaning to those who did not whatever the statistics.

Until and unless you have encountered a 'die hard' abuser, it is fine to believe that they will change. But you can't force someone who have experienced more damages than you have to believe that, cos' they have experienced something that you can't even imagine. Let's say that I'm happy you worked out your episode, and it is now in the past. But for some people, it would be like 'reliving that nightmare all over again" and 'fearing for their lives' that their abuser will come after them again.

I think I have said all I have to say!

And for those who hide behind their 'angel masks' ..... I hope you change, and/or that you are unmasked..... before further harm comes to the one who believed you to be who you are not.

but when you hijack threads, the meaning of the thread is lost, and you force your opinion to stay which is untrue to MOST readers and victims.

and there you interject a significant point,, DEGREES

whatever 'die hard' abuse is, there are all types of situations that get people labeled abuser,,,,

and once they have the label they are further weighted down with the opinion that abusers 'cant' change


there is no statistic about abusers because most who would qualify are not reporting to any type of census or survey,,lol


but you are right, there are many situations where one should not go back without CLEAR evidence change has happened, and there are some people who just dont have strength, or will power, or desire to change

there is just too diverse a range of situations to blanketly answer anything except people 'can' change,, which doesn't mean they always will, just that its not impossible that they have or did

there really was a clear meaning, there were two questions asked

can people change

and what do you think of violent men and women


the meaning is still there, people are just disagreeable that I am not blanketly condemning others with my responses,,,

Good for you MS... I am glad your ex husband changed... as I am sure you did to after that "one" episode. As I am also sure your marriage did as well.

And of course you never "walked on eggshells" around your ex husband again because.."he changed".. right?

But heh, just apart of " growing pains".. as you stated.

Well, it worked for you.. so be it.

getting physical is not necessarily tantamount to violence. there are actions that are done out of defense, self-preservation or simply as sudden outbursts of emotion. i would not lump people in this category as violent men and women.

violent people involves that intention to violate another's being in order to attain some sort of gain or satisfaction in itself.

it is a mental and psychological process that involves giving oneself the justification of committing acts against another, and in the process taking control of the other, whether it be thru physical, mental, emotional, financial means or otherwise. manipulation is part and parcel of this.

yes, times change, people change, but any change can go one way or another, for good or for bad. and it also involves the will of wanting to change and the reason that catalyzes change.

violent people become and stay violent because it is favorable for them to be that way. there is a sense of satisfaction from attaining control of another, be it concrete or abstract in form. unless there is great reason for them to give this up, it is unlikely that they will change and abandon their violent tendencies. more likely, they will change tactics in order to be less detectable.

claiming and acting nice do not necessarily constitute a real change. the most that can be hoped for, in normal circumstances, is that they will try to control their tendencies.

proof of real change can only be seen in time. and personally, i think the person involved will have to as much as possible, own up to what they have done and make amends for all the wrongs done in the past first, before i can truly believe that a sincere change for the better is happening. otherwise, i would think that the person is only acting or trying to escape from something...

lets us for sake of argument which is what has been occuring


draw the line between a one time event of lashing out in violence
such as

one time I got so angry at my husband and so frustrated I lost control and hit him
or
one time and only once in our marriage my husband got so aggravated and lost his control and shoved me but knew immediately what he just did and it never happened again


one time my spouse after drinking too much shook me really hard in middle of a fight but next day when he sobered up and set that bottle down it never happened again








in those above scenarios the violence was not part of their make up, their core personality before the incidence and did not become a part of their personality after



of course it could have...if this person who lashed out in violence decided that they liked how they felt afterwards..that it gave them a sense of empowerment and control and satisfaction

do I excuse the behavior? no
did they break the law? yes


these cases however, are singular abuse events
and whether or not a couple can work thru this with counseling
up to them
but the danger of encouraging other people to stay and forgive, forget and give second chances is that a singular event can become a lifetime of abuse